The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Paula Deen]

I'd love for him to do the initial announcement of the expansion name before the trailer starts. Blizzard would be mad not to try and get him on board for at least that.

He won't be giving us game features of explanations or story. But he is killer hype man, they want those old players to come back.

If he takes the stage and introduces it, that's a win.

It's possible Thrall will narrate the newest trailer, if he's involved with the story also, that'd still be pretty cool.

I'm honestly not getting my hopes up for Metzen, but I will be at max hype if he's there purely to announce the expansion name and introduce it. Whatever the following trailers would reveal I'd be so hyped I'd probably love whatever it was.
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After that we get the usual folks talking us through what's to come. I've come to respect Ion in his own way with time, I can't imagine how tough it's been trying to push this product shitstorm after shitstorm. Lorefart after Lorefart.

Honestly just the presence of Metzen to announce the name would be enough for some of my friends.

[Luck4]

I'd love for him to do the initial announcement of the expansion name before the trailer starts. Blizzard would be mad not to try and get him on board for at least that.

I think he's a bit old now for that hype he used to have back in the day.

[Revamp Man]

I think they do and I think, sadly, it may be a case of accessibility. Durumu in LFR was...hell for lack of a better word, I can't imagine it in Timewalking.

There is also a possibility they are just fixing the damage they did converting it to Mythic and adding the removed Heirlooms as they have been on a spree recently of implementing previously removed content.

It's not lfr though and they can improve the graphics
Dang it I want my broken trinkets

[ImTheMizAwesome]

I think he's a bit old now for that hype he used to have back in the day.

Honestly Metzen had so much energy that he could sell me anything and i would be veeery hyped about it.

If only his health will allow it and noone actually pushes him really hard in blizz to do the reveal on next blizzcon, it would be nice to at least hear him on stage one more time or just him standing alongside Ion.

[Luck4]

True. There's a pattern with a new one of those videos every 2-3 months or so. Obviously more as new expansions loom on the horizon. Content creators rarely feel the need to go back and explain all the times they were wrong, either, because the videos aren't really evergreen and people just kind of move on to the next hype video.

I just watched the video, and I've to say that's the type of story I would like to see for future expansions, but I doubt that is Blizzard's direction going forward.

Playable race lore has been nearly nonexistent since BFA ended, which is sad since every expansion we used to see everything from the playable races/faction eyes/perspective.

We used to have some key characters from each faction playing a role in expansion events and appearing in trailers and cinematics. While I agree that Dragonflight lore isn't bad, it's lacking in this aspect pretty much like Shadowlands. It feels like the Warcraft main story, the story of the playable races, has been halted.

I know it didn't, but it took a backseat, where everything happens in books, pre-expansion events, heritage questlines, side quests added in minor patches, etc. But why it's happening? We should follow characters from the playable races in those expansions and see the story from their perspective.

[Woggmer]

I think they do and I think, sadly, it may be a case of accessibility. Durumu in LFR was...hell for lack of a better word, I can't imagine it in Timewalking.

There is also a possibility they are just fixing the damage they did converting it to Mythic and adding the removed Heirlooms as they have been on a spree recently of implementing previously removed content.

Timewalking Raids aren't the same as LFR, you have to build the raid up and then you talk to some timewalker dwarf lady near the Timewalker vendor who will teleport you into the instance. So Durumu isn't an issue, especially with addons that can improve the fight.

What IS an issue is Malkorok in Siege of Orgrimmar who's a gear check and his healing absorb miasma is evil... Galakrond and Norushen is annoying, and depending on the faction you're in also determines which trash packs you have to deal with. (Alliance side had gnomes take out the Kor'kron turret section that the Horde would take, while Horde has Saurfang who solos all the Mantid trash packs [which is the hardest trash pack in the raid] so Horde lucks out.)

[Luck4]

If only his health will allow it and noone actually pushes him really hard in blizz to do the reveal on next blizzcon, it would be nice to at least hear him on stage one more time or just him standing alongside Ion.

I agree, but if he doesn't show up, I'll still be glad he's back. I have faith we'll keep having lore improvements in the next expansion.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

I agree, but if he doesn't show up, I'll still be glad he's back. I have faith we'll keep having lore improvements in the next expansion.

Maybe they will give thrall's son some better model and better VA, i think it would a cool character to have around and learn from us like in orc heritage questline.

Like young anduin was learning in some ways from us.

[Dracullus]

If we get SoO for TW instead of ToT I'm wondering if the devs understand the assignment

They are both great raids. SoO and HFC got a lot of hate cause they lasted 14 months compared to 5 ToT and BRF. But it was 10 years ago and is no longer relevant.

Biggest issue for TW raids are unique rewards. There is some pet or sth from Firelands added in DF and DH warglaives mog from Black Temple, both require just clear not any farming. If SoO will have all Garrosh heirlooms returning + LFR version, it will be much more popular.

[Worldshaper]

Random Mini-prediction

• Avaloren contains Uldaz, the final Titan facility on Azeroth. Its Keeper Innaria was betrayed and overthrown, thousands of years ago. Up until that point, she held a very important mission and safeguarded the facility. Perhaps she was even one of the most important Keepers, with very advanced Titan weaponry to keep the prison safe.
• The Titan-forged of Avaloren had slowly been influenced by the Old Gods' essence seeping out into the land. It didn't turn them into Void-beings, but they sort of had the Curse of Flesh. Their descendants are the Children of the First Flesh. The first ones who had it were the ones sent on an expedition below the earth, to Sector AR-938, later called Khaz Algar. But then it spread above ground, until the entire continent had been affected. Since then, Avaloren has seen its own history much like ancient Kalimdor. Keep in mind this was well before the Keepers faced issues wiry Yogg-Saron in Ulduar, and before Yogg-Saron used the Curse of Flesh on the ancestors of Kalimdor.
• Its inhabitants, the "Heretics" according to Odyn, might have been more influenced by the Void in the absence of other Titan Keepers. They might be freethinkers. Not evil maybe, just... different from us. They've strayed from the path of the Titans and just want to live free. Now they're using the ancient defenses of Uldaz to keep others out.
• We will travel there and explore the land, and unearth its many secrets.

[RahEndymion]

Denathrius leading the reformed Burning Legion as WoW’s equivalent of Thrawn is something I absolutely need.

WoW's equivalent to Abbadon*

[Polybius]

I just watched the video, and I've to say that's the type of story I would like to see for future expansions, but I doubt that is Blizzard's direction going forward.

Playable race lore has been nearly nonexistent since BFA ended, which is sad since every expansion we used to see everything from the playable races/faction eyes/perspective.

We used to have some key characters from each faction playing a role in expansion events and appearing in trailers and cinematics. While I agree that Dragonflight lore isn't bad, it's lacking in this aspect pretty much like Shadowlands. It feels like the Warcraft main story, the story of the playable races, has been halted.

I know it didn't, but it took a backseat, where everything happens in books, pre-expansion events, heritage questlines, side quests added in minor patches, etc. But why it's happening? We should follow characters from the playable races in those expansions and see the story from their perspective.

This is why I personally believe a true revamp is needed. There’s too many new races and factions introduced each xpac while we neglect the old as backdrops. And this isn’t just a complaint from a niche of players.

As much shit as the idea of a revamp has been given these past weeks, this game really needs to stay to basics and strengthen its roots. I love void and light but we’re asking the game drift away and further alienate players from the core story without any build up. Same goes for isles unheard of, it’s placing new blocks atop old ones - players new and old should familiarize with EK and Kalimdor once more, esp. after the fiascos of BfA and SL.

Hell, the number one complaint of new players is that they don’t know what’s going on in the story. Vet players and devs need to sit on a patch of grass and realize it, from a gameplay and business standpoint, for the health of the game if it still matters

[Santandame]

They are both great raids. SoO and HFC got a lot of hate cause they lasted 14 months compared to 5 ToT and BRF. But it was 10 years ago and is no longer relevant.

Biggest issue for TW raids are unique rewards. There is some pet or sth from Firelands added in DF and DH warglaives mog from Black Temple, both require just clear not any farming. If SoO will have all Garrosh heirlooms returning + LFR version, it will be much more popular.

SoO and HFC are two of the best raids. I would love to see them as Timewalking content.

[Nymrohd]

I'm very ambivalent about Timewalking raids. The gear is meant to be mediocre (unless some outlier trinket makes it through) they are only available for one week so it's not like you could make them challenging enough for there to be progression in them, they have no matchmaking mode. I'd love it if they had a Heroic mode but then they'd have to last for at least 3-4 weeks so people could actually have a chance to progress through them.

[Santandame]

Random Mini-prediction

• Avaloren contains Uldaz, the final Titan facility on Azeroth. Its Keeper Innaria was betrayed and overthrown, thousands of years ago. Up until that point, she held a very important mission and safeguarded the facility. Perhaps she was even one of the most important Keepers, with very advanced Titan weaponry to keep the prison safe.
• The Titan-forged of Avaloren had slowly been influenced by the Old Gods' essence seeping out into the land. It didn't turn them into Void-beings, but they sort of had the Curse of Flesh. Their descendants are the Children of the First Flesh. The first ones who had it were the ones sent on an expedition below the earth, to Sector AR-938, later called Khaz Algar. But then it spread above ground, until the entire continent had been affected. Since then, Avaloren has seen its own history much like ancient Kalimdor. Keep in mind this was well before the Keepers faced issues wiry Yogg-Saron in Ulduar, and before Yogg-Saron used the Curse of Flesh on the ancestors of Kalimdor.
• Its inhabitants, the "Heretics" according to Odyn, might have been more influenced by the Void in the absence of other Titan Keepers. They might be freethinkers. Not evil maybe, just... different from us. They've strayed from the path of the Titans and just want to live free. Now they're using the ancient defenses of Uldaz to keep others out.
• We will travel there and explore the land, and unearth its many secrets.

For me, the best case scenario for the Heretics of Avaloren would be for them to be completely unaligned from both the Old Gods and the Titans. Odyn calls them heretics because they reject the Titans as their gods, and their ordering.

I’d love to see them as several different native races to Avaloren that exceed the Horde and Alliance in every possible way. I’m talking military strength, technologically, ethically, magically. It needs to be a whole new “world” of already established cities, factions, relations, religions, structure etc.

We need to be not just the outsiders they are there to learn and attempt to establish relations. We need to be dwarfed by them in every possible way, and the only reason they’ve not bothered to contact us is because they haven’t ever seen the necessity. We’ve just never been worth it to them.

I’m not advocating for modern day/futuristic cities or technologies though. Definitely more sword & board and magic based. Just a step up from the more medieval fantasy style that WoW tends to employ for its playable races. Draenei, Gnomes and Goblins aside.

Worst case is they’re just your standard Old God/Void worshippers. No thanks,

I’d have loved Azshara to be our main “ally” when visiting. Purely because in what I hope, she is one of the very few Azeroth natives ti know of Avaloren, it’s people, and it’s culture. She accompanies us an alliance of necessity. We need her knowledge, she needs our numbers and skill.

[Nymrohd]

I'd be a bit nitpicky with the word Heretic. For someone to be a heretic, he needs to have a divergent interpretation on established dogma not just an unbeliever. So if they are heretics that means they do acknowledge the Titans they just interpret them differently than Odyn does. It's why I think they must be titanforged; who else held a similar "faith" with the keepers in the days after the ordering other than the other titanforged?

[Worldshaper]

For me, the best case scenario for the Heretics of Avaloren would be for them to be completely unaligned from both the Old Gods and the Titans. Odyn calls them heretics because they reject the Titans as their gods, and their ordering.

I’d love to see them as several different native races to Avaloren that exceed the Horde and Alliance in every possible way. I’m talking military strength, technologically, ethically, magically. It needs to be a whole new “world” of already established cities, factions, relations, religions, structure etc.

We need to be not just the outsiders they are there to learn and attempt to establish relations. We need to be dwarfed by them in every possible way, and the only reason they’ve not bothered to contact us is because they haven’t ever seen the necessity. We’ve just never been worth it to them.

I’m not advocating for modern day/futuristic cities or technologies though. Definitely more sword & board and magic based. Just a step up from the more medieval fantasy style that WoW tends to employ for its playable races. Draenei, Gnomes and Goblins aside.

Worst case is they’re just your standard Old God/Void worshippers. No thanks,

I’d have loved Azshara to be our main “ally” when visiting. Purely because in what I hope, she is one of the very few Azeroth natives ti know of Avaloren, it’s people, and it’s culture. She accompanies us an alliance of necessity. We need her knowledge, she needs our numbers and skill.

So kind of like the difference between the Roman Empire and everyone else in 100 AD?

I could dig it. It's an interesting concept. Just not sure Blizzard would want to have something new so completely outshine what we have. I realise they do this all the time (Dranor > Outland, Dragonflight > Cata, Shadowlands > Northrend, etc), but to have places like Orgrimmar and Stormwind seem "meh" in the future just doesn't seem like the way you celebrate WoW's 20th anniversary.

But I could see Avaloren being their version of a "world revamp", as others have suggested. A shiny new place which gives us exactly what we liked about Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms back in 2004, only with modern graphics. Green forests, snowcapped mountains, roads slithering their way through the landscape, lakes and rivers, etc. Basic fantasy stuff.

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I'd be a bit nitpicky with the word Heretic. For someone to be a heretic, he needs to have a divergent interpretation on established dogma not just an unbeliever. So if they are heretics that means they do acknowledge the Titans they just interpret them differently than Odyn does. It's why I think they must be titanforged; who else held a similar "faith" with the keepers in the days after the ordering other than the other titanforged?

I suppose. But the Titans and the Keepers also like labelling stuff based on their own world view. What they consider a heretic could be anything from its literal meaning, to actual Void Lords. It could be anything. That said, Blizzard did choose to use this word in particular so it's probably a good guess that they strayed from the path at least.

We need to interpret that in the context of Azeroth 20 000 years ago as you suggest, assuming those texts are from then. What was the current status of the Old Gods, the Elementals, the Keepers, and evolved life? How would Odyn look at the world in those days, and how much did he know about it? What allegiances did he have, and what enemies remained after the Old Gods had been imprisoned?

Would somebody who strayed from the path to be considered a "heretic" naturally have been Titanforged that stopped working towards Order's shared goals, could it have been Azerothian natives, or were they simply enemies who didn't believe in the Titans' vision?

It's probably wise to assume that a faction like Order has a vision of the universe which stretches from all the way back in the beginning, to the end of time. One straight line where everything happens as it's supposed to happen, and everybody contributes. With that in mind, I'm guessing Odyn would also consider the Old Gods "heretics", because they've also, by this line of thinking, stopped contributing towards what they consider to be the ultimate and only path forward for the universe.

[Nymrohd]

That is just a very loose intepretation of the word. I expect words to have a recognizable meaning . . . A heretic ascribes to a heresy, not a different religion altogether. I can see the Void considering the Light heretics for instance (while the Light would not because it refuses to acknowledge any commonality with the Void).

[Cheezits]

As someone whose first raids were TOT and SOO, I definitely enjoyed Siege more. Except the Zaela/Protodrake fight which is just a miserable slog.

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Something I noticed on the megadungeon today is that the sand boss attacks Nozdormu because he is trying to disrupt the "true timeline", further backing the idea that Little Nozdormu getting corrupted is the proper timeline the titans want.

Which means... Nozdormu's existence is a paradox? Because if it was meant to be that the Infinites corrupt Little Nozdormu, how does Our Nozdormu exist?

Or, everything in the dungeon had to happen, including tricking us and Nozdormu into thinking he's okay.

[Fahrad Wagner]

Random prediction: at this point I think Khaz Algar is the 10.3 zone and Uldaz will be the final raid!