The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Kiivar86]

Not necessarily, Avaloren would already be there. They are already solving the problems by breaking constraints that made sense at the time but no longer do today.

Yeah and the rest of the world? If you choose to play this third faction are you just shit out of luck for playing most the rest of the zones that don't have neutral questing?

Well, in a game of Uno it is more interesting to play 2 or 3? The real game starts at 3 to cross the possibilities. At 2 it's completely linear and simple ^^

Speaking as someone who came from an MMO that had three factions (Anarchy Online, though the third, Neutral, was kinda...well, neutered, really, since you didn't get benefits either side got though you could go through either side's cities. At least when I played), you still won't be able to have any actual resolutions to conflicts. Status quo has to exist.

In Anarchy Online, the Rebels, Omni-Tek, and Neutrals all had to continue to exist no matter what. Same would be true for Alliance, Horde, and Thirds.

Anyway in regards to that "leak" that was posted too, what an easily faked list. And the fuck even is "Loop Skill"?

[Nymrohd]

Look at his death cinematic again, try telling me that was "in the Nether" when Argus was right fuckin there. lol

Argus is in the Nether.

[Xilurm]

Speaking of characters dying in their respective planes. Do Wild Gods and Loa go to Ardenweald and then the Emerald Dream and then to Azeroth? Or is the Emerald Dream skipped now that we know Ardenweald exists?

[Kiivar86]

You could, you can do it with a dracthyr. But it's true that for BfA it's a problem, maybe allowing you to do all the side quests and not the campaign? Honestly on this point and on the battlegrounds mentioned before, I have no idea how to solve them honestly...

But Dracthyr join a faction and arne't locked out of questing for countless zones. A third faction would unless massive changes are done to zones to accommodate them.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean here?

I'm saying a third faction does nothing to make faction conflicts any better. They still all have to exist. You can't wipe one out, one can't have an actual decisive win over one ofthe others. Its status quo through and through. All it does, if anything, is make it harder.

[Nymrohd]

But Dracthyr join a faction and arne't locked out of questing for countless zones. A third faction would unless massive changes are done to zones to accommodate them.



I'm saying a third faction does nothing to make faction conflicts any better. They still all have to exist. You can't wipe one out, one can't have an actual decisive win over one ofthe others. Its status quo through and through. All it does, if anything, is make it harder.

You don't need to wipe a faction to have a decisive win over it though. You just need to be willing to commit to having changes in the world. Horde wiping out Stormwind and then the Alliance moving to Ironforge, together with an Ironforge revamp to move the content that needs to be moved would absolutely work. It would also be a lot of work for Blizzard that they are not really willing to do.

[Ersula]

Agreed. Kula Tiras druidism is a very specific form involving death as well as life, that's why their forms are so.. weird looking. KT deserves to keep their unique druidism and forms, and Humans deserve their own forms based on normal druidism. Wonder if humans will get s lion or wolf for cat form? They have no native cats in their territory, closest are the Panthers and tigers in the Gurubashi territory of Stranglethorn. While they have native bears, and wolves in elwynn.

Why is thornspeaker druidism considered the outlier but Worgen Druidism is considered normal? The Thornspeakers achieved Druidism all by themselves while all the other races had to be given a shapeshifter permit by a Wild God. Honestly, unless Cenarius just comes out & says "I'm giving everyone the gift of Druidism now let me go to sleep" (reasonably likely based on how much of a handwave it is) it seems easier for Humans to simply be taught the Thornspeaker Druidic rites.

Speaking of characters dying in their respective planes. Do Wild Gods and Loa go to Ardenweald and then the Emerald Dream and then to Azeroth? Or is the Emerald Dream skipped now that we know Ardenweald exists?

Wild God and Loa are creatures chosen by the Winter Queen to protect the cycle of nature from the world of the living, so they retain their memories & supernatural power when they are reincarnated. These characters appearing in the Emerald Dream seem to be (retroactively) explained as their astral form while they are sleeping somewhere else. I presume this is how they explain Ghosts of people we know are in the Shadowlands on Azeroth as well.

Speaking of which, Rezan gave his Loa status to Vol'jin, so that means he's going to be completely ressurected eventually. I guess that makes up for his crappy death but how annoying would it be if they completely forget this, like so many other undeveloped spiritual storylines in this setting.

[Woggmer]

Speaking of characters dying in their respective planes. Do Wild Gods and Loa go to Ardenweald and then the Emerald Dream and then to Azeroth? Or is the Emerald Dream skipped now that we know Ardenweald exists?

The vast forests of Ardenweald serve the natural aspects of life and death. Its wilds are a sanctuary for the great spirits of nature that seek respite and renewal before awakening to join the cycle anew. Ardenweald and the Emerald Dream are opposite blooms connected to the same tree. If the Dream is the personification of Life in the waxing stage, then Ardenweald is life when it is waning.

They both serve the same function, but this is only just my idea of how it works. It is like the former than the latter at least based on the wording.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

You don't need to wipe a faction to have a decisive win over it though. You just need to be willing to commit to having changes in the world. Horde wiping out Stormwind and then the Alliance moving to Ironforge, together with an Ironforge revamp to move the content that needs to be moved would absolutely work. It would also be a lot of work for Blizzard that they are not really willing to do.

No thanks, that sounds bad. Lets not do that.

Clearly? See, the moment I see someone be 100% sure about something they have no way of knowing, I know they have no idea what they are talking about. 11.0 has a solid chance to have a Void plot. There is nothing clear about it being the primary plot.

I don't expect us to jump into the Void after DF, maybe 12.0 tho

[Xilurm]

If they revamp Kalimdor and EK, they can have the levelling experience be there AND the endgame experience be there. No need for Chromie Time anymore. You start there and end there. When the next expansion after that comes around, you just naturally move to the new place. Characters made after that start in the revamped Kalimdor and EK and level through those until they reach the new expansion zones for the last 10 levels. Pretty much how Vanilla to TBC worked.

Chromie Time is such a mess right now. Levelling in general is a mess. If they fix all that they can just leave all the old campaigns in the game and let them be optional through Chromie Time at max lvl which Chromie Time should've been in the first place. Give people a mount or a mog as an incentive to go do those past campaigns after they've reached max level and are bored of current content, that'd be great.

[Woggmer]

Why is thornspeaker druidism considered the outlier but Worgen Druidism is considered normal? The Thornspeakers achieved Druidism all by themselves while all the other races had to be given a shapeshifter permit by a Wild God. Honestly, unless Cenarius just comes out & says "I'm giving everyone the gift of Druidism now let me go to sleep" (reasonably likely based on how much of a handwave it is) it seems easier for Humans to simply be taught the Thornspeaker Druidic rites.

Because the thornspeakers learned about Druidism from the Drust.

Worgen/Gilnean were called Harvest-witches, their practice came from a time when Humans were still forming tribes before they built up kingdoms. Around that time, humans were dabbling in all sorts of stuff like Shamanism and Druidism.. but it became a dying practice when Lordaeron spread the word of the Light and it became the new religion.. on top of them meeting the High Elves showing them the ways of the Arcane... all that stuff pushed all those practices away with the only outliers being Gilneas who are stubborn in their old ways and Kul'tiras (which was founded by Gilnean sailors)

[Ersula]

Worgen/Gilnean were called Harvest-witches, their practice came from a time when Humans were still forming tribes before they built up kingdoms. Around that time, humans were dabbling in all sorts of stuff like Shamanism and Druidism.. but it became a dying practice when Lordaeron spread the word of the Light and it became the new religion.. on top of them meeting the High Elves showing them the ways of the Arcane... all that stuff pushed away all that stuff with the only outliers being Gilneas who are stubborn in their old ways and Kul'tiras (which was founded by Gilnean sailors)

You shouldn't assume the "Harvest-witches" who revered nature are the same thing as contemporary Druids. They're only namechecked in Gilnean questlines to reference that their people once revered nature (as all cultures do if you go back far enough.) The Worgen Druid you play as wouldn't be able to do half the things a druid could do if Cenarus & Malfurion didn't also bless you, out of necessity, at the end of your origin questline.

Taking that into consideration, Ancient Gilneans worshiping nature isn't any different from Ancient Kul Tirans worshiping Gorak Tul. So I say again, Kul Tirans figuring out how to be a druid through craft alone seems more accessible than getting a wild god's blessing.

(Edit: You might just say "Gorak Tul is also a Wild God and that's where they get druidism" and that's valid but if were are to assume the Fire Druids got their blessing from Ragnaros then and from Fyrakk now, it seems whomever you get it from can rescind that blessing, so being Gorak Tul's enemies they would have lost it, but they didn't. So instead I propose Gorak Tul's druidism came purely from secrets of the Titans, which were passed on through the years. If your reaction to this is "Well, who's to say they can rescind the blessing of Druidism at all" then I say "Then its just a learned craft for everybody & nothing is barring everyone from becoming druids so the whole conversation is moot.")

[Kiivar86]

You don't need to wipe a faction to have a decisive win over it though. You just need to be willing to commit to having changes in the world. Horde wiping out Stormwind and then the Alliance moving to Ironforge, together with an Ironforge revamp to move the content that needs to be moved would absolutely work. It would also be a lot of work for Blizzard that they are not really willing to do.

Yeah and I don't see that happening either. For one it greatly demoralizes the side that actually loses, which may work in real life but in a game you don't want to make one side feel like they're being punished.

Just look at how the Alliance felt like they were an absolute punching bag for Cataclysm with losing zones. Yes it did help to balance out an existing imbalance but all it did in the end was making it feel like the Alliance was losing, losing, losing, and the Horde was victorious. Animosity grew from that for years.

It is also, as you say, a lot of work. I just don't see that happening in an MMO.

[Xilurm]

Yeah and I don't see that happening either. For one it greatly demoralizes the side that actually loses, which may work in real life but in a game you don't want to make one side feel like they're being punished.

Just look at how the Alliance felt like they were an absolute punching bag for Cataclysm with losing zones. Yes it did help to balance out an existing imbalance but all it did in the end was making it feel like the Alliance was losing, losing, losing, and the Horde was victorious. Animosity grew from that for years.

It is also, as you say, a lot of work. I just don't see that happening in an MMO.

War of Thorns too. And yeah the Forsaken lost their capital but that didn't last long, they got it back already. But the alliance lost a zone that's impossible to get back.

[Nymrohd]

Yeah and I don't see that happening either. For one it greatly demoralizes the side that actually loses, which may work in real life but in a game you don't want to make one side feel like they're being punished.

Just look at how the Alliance felt like they were an absolute punching bag for Cataclysm with losing zones. Yes it did help to balance out an existing imbalance but all it did in the end was making it feel like the Alliance was losing, losing, losing, and the Horde was victorious. Animosity grew from that for years.

It is also, as you say, a lot of work. I just don't see that happening in an MMO.

I mean the idea is, you eventually get it back, and better.

[Cheezits]

I mean the idea is, you eventually get it back, and better.

6+ years IRL for the Tree is way too long to wait IMO, Stormwind/Ironforge wouldn't be any different.

[locketto]

I could see Wratheye return as some kind of hungry monster. Corrupted fully by decay as a boss with some gnoll trash. But other than
Was this the same guy that made us guess what evokers are with pictures of drek'thar and little riddles? fun times!

No was the guy who wrote about df weeks before the leak, and months before the release with corrects dates.

[Kiivar86]

I mean the idea is, you eventually get it back, and better.

Blizzard's been impressing me more as of late but I don't have that much faith.

We had a smoldering crater in Stormwind for how long, for example?

The idea is a nice one but not one I think Blizzard will accomplish.

Oh I found it, they guy who leaked dF

ALSO some others dude leaked others things, like logos etc, recap here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1758213767

Oh neat I didn't realize ercarp did a spreadsheet for Dragonflight too!

[locketto]

Oh I found it, they guy who leaked dF

ALSO some others dude leaked others things, like logos etc, recap here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1758213767

[Nymrohd]

Blizzard's been impressing me more as of late but I don't have that much faith.

We had a smoldering crater in Stormwind for how long, for example?

The idea is a nice one but not one I think Blizzard will accomplish.

I don't disagree, I said it on the post; it would only work if they were actually going to do the work and we have little evidence they are. I mean even now in DF, look at time rifts. They could have used slightly larger areas and transport us there instead we have just random mobs spawning and only the final boss is somehow thematic.
My point was mostly that faction war with consequences can be done, it would just take a lot of effort.

[Woggmer]

You shouldn't assume the "Harvest-witches" who revered nature are the same thing as contemporary Druids. They're only namechecked in Gilnean questlines to reference that their people once revered nature (as all cultures do if you go back far enough.) The Worgen Druid you play as wouldn't be able to do half the things a druid could do if Cenarus & Malfurion didn't also bless you, out of necessity, at the end of your origin questline.

Taking that into consideration, Ancient Gilneans worshiping nature isn't any different from Ancient Kul Tirans worshiping Gorak Tul. So I say again, Kul Tirans figuring out how to be a druid through craft alone seems more accessible than getting a wild god's blessing.

(Edit: You might just say "Gorak Tul is also a Wild God and that's where they get druidism" and that's valid but if were are to assume the Fire Druids got their blessing from Ragnaros then and from Fyrakk now, it seems whomever you get it from can rescind that blessing, so being Gorak Tul's enemies they would have lost it, but they didn't. So instead I propose Gorak Tul's druidism came purely from secrets of the Titans, which were passed on through the years. If your reaction to this is "Well, who's to say they can rescind the blessing of Druidism at all" then I say "Then its just a learned craft for everybody & nothing is barring everyone from becoming druids so the whole conversation is moot.")

Except that Gorak Tul wasn't a wild god, but a sorcerer king who tapped into the realm of Thros and warped the Drust. You're thinking of Ulfar who is the closest and oldest living Thornspeaker (He's pretty much the last of the uncorrupted Thornspeakers) we have that can teach people the ways of being a druid... and even then they don't know they're a druid until "they hear the call of the wild."

I can only see Gorak Tul's methods working for the Forsaken rather than humans... but even that's a bit of a stretch.