1. #10881
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    If there ever was a time to announce a sequel, it would be this November.

    • 20th anniversary of WoW next year.
    • 30th anniversary of Warcraft, too.
    • With 11.0, we will have concluded the long running story about the cosmic forces (as found on Azeroth), which started in the RTS trilogy. Time for a new chapter.
    • WoW has lost most of its subscribers, and the argument "if it ain't broke dont fix it" is beginning to lose its validity.
    • In order to capture younger audiences, a new game might be necessary. F2P, fast paced, higher graphical fidelity, less of a threshold to get started.
    • Meanwhile, older audiences can be wooed by a world revamp and continued WoW support after 11.0.
    Considering how ridiculously lackluster the 10th anniversary of WoW was my hopes aren't too high for the 20th.
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  2. #10882
    Over 9000! Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    The new questing isn't at all like that. There's way more freedom. Also I don't see why it should be like that either? It's an RPG, why should questing be so mundane and monotone?
    New questing is still like that. You go on rails from place to place during main story and you get branching out side hubs. Why it get's monotone? Because game currently has around 34,000 quests, and it is all part of levelling process that is not a main focus of the game. Players learned ages ago to autopilot it.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2023-07-30 at 08:11 PM.
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  3. #10883
    Mechagnome Ameonna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ceveris View Post
    Time is not an issue, it all depends on how they approach the subject.

    And Cata wasn't a real overhaul, it was a few areas that were a bit destroyed, a few new trees there and a few new areas. Not a real overhaul. It would be more like Outland & WoD in comparison.

    The old world is dead, it's time to re-exploit it to create new and persistent content.
    Lol, go tell this to the devs who went into a burn out because they had to rewrit and rework around a million of quests overall ><

    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    Considering how ridiculously lackluster the 10th anniversary of WoW was my hopes aren't too high for the 20th.
    Here someone being realistic! Not to mention the expac which came for the 10th year of wow was...well WoD...i guess i dont have more to say here.

  4. #10884
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    New questing is still like that. You go on rails from place to place during main story and you get branching out side hubs. Why it get's monotone? Because game currently has around 34,000 quests, and it is all part of levelling process that is not a main focus of the game. Players learned ages ago to autopilot it.
    It really isn't. Now you got a main quest, and side quests. There's way more freedom. Back in Cata you had to complete every quest in the small hub zone before it gave you a quest to move towards the next. Now that problem doesn't exist. You only have to complete a few, it's your choice if you want to stay or move on to the next. Which means you're free to come back later and do the other quests as well.

  5. #10885
    Quote Originally Posted by Ameonna View Post
    Lol, go tell this to the devs who went into a burn out because they had to rewrit and rework around a million of quests overall ><



    Here someone being realistic! Not to mention the expac which came for the 10th year of wow was...well WoD...i guess i dont have more to say here.
    To be fair, excitement for WoD during and right after Blizzcon was extremely high. And then they started cutting content and pretending they never said it would be included (Karabor anyone?)

  6. #10886
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    To be fair, excitement for WoD during and right after Blizzcon was extremely high. And then they started cutting content and pretending they never said it would be included (Karabor anyone?)
    It had a troubled development and I still recall one of the devs there(I think) that gorgrond got changed really close to release but yes.. most people know of the lost potential of WoD.


    And speaking of controversy. Even if 11.0 or next expansion isn't ready for 20th.. thats fine. Hitting a rough deadline for the devs just to say "HEY 20TH ANIVERSY" is less important as long as its ready.
    Last edited by Aeluron Lightsong; 2023-07-30 at 09:12 PM.
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  7. #10887
    Quote Originally Posted by Nibelheimy View Post
    Maybe Anshe the cosmic wonderer is exactly that.. Iridikron uses the void amulet to open a gateway into the expanse, bringing a meteor into Azeroths orbit Sephiroth style, with an illidan style argus cinematic. Would say a lot for Iridikron as a villain if he was literally willing to risk decimating the entire planet including himself to force the titans to intervene.

    Even if it didn't lead to a world revamp, maybe Uldaz or Avaloren has a titan made anti meteor device we would need to find/use to blow it to pieces. I'm sure the titans being cosmic wanderers would have a failsafe for rogue space rocks. Bonus points if after we blow it up, a new old god/gods is inside and rains down onto Azeroth for the expansion after.
    I think we just spoiled the expansion ending.
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  8. #10888
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    It had a troubled development and I still recall one of the devs there(I think) that gorgrond got changed really close to release but yes.. most people know of the lost potential of WoD.


    And speaking of controversy. Even if 11.0 or next expansion isn't ready for 20th.. thats fine. Hitting a rough deadline for the devs just to say "HEY 20TH ANIVERSY" is less important as long as its ready.
    I wish devs would stop with the silly deadlines. It's why we can't have nice things anymore.

  9. #10889
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    If there ever was a time to announce a sequel, it would be this November.

    • 20th anniversary of WoW next year.
    • 30th anniversary of Warcraft, too.
    • With 11.0, we will have concluded the long running story about the cosmic forces (as found on Azeroth), which started in the RTS trilogy. Time for a new chapter.
    • WoW has lost most of its subscribers, and the argument "if it ain't broke dont fix it" is beginning to lose its validity.
    • In order to capture younger audiences, a new game might be necessary. F2P, fast paced, higher graphical fidelity, less of a threshold to get started.
    • Meanwhile, older audiences can be wooed by a world revamp and continued WoW support after 11.0.
    WoW 2.0 is not happening. At least not in this decade.

    I agree that it is needed. Current WoW will eventually fade away for many reasons. But Blizzard seems to be happy to keep milking the cow for as long as it lasts, which honestly it might not be long now. 11.0 would be supported at least as much as DF, but after that... We will have to see how WoW is doing then.

    I thought about the possibility of adapting WoW to the new playerbase that it needs so much. This would not be WoW 2.0 but a kind of transition, like Overwatch - Overwatch 2 (hopefully it would work better). But the steps that Blizzard are talking are clearly not in that direction, which is concerning but understandable. In order to do that they would need to basically redo the game again. They just cannot cut by half the skills of all specs and change how combat works, for instance. Something like that would literally need a new game.

    So, while it is certainly sad, I completely understand Blizzard's decision of just keep the game as it is, improving it where they can and creating lots of content. It is the only possible plan until WoW dies.
    Last edited by Darkarath; 2023-07-30 at 09:59 PM.
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  10. #10890
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post


    This video sucks
    Haven't seen this slick in a long time.
    Now you ruined my evening.

  11. #10891
    If they ever make a WoW 2 the most important thing they need to get is the artstyle, the design and the feeling of the world/characters. If you've ever played ESO or any Korean MMO you've probably seen how when the characters move, they "slide" instead of having more smooth transitions. I always thought WoW was better at this than other MMOs. Everything else feels really "stiff" if that's the correct word. Other MMOs also lack the colour that WoW has in its environments.

    There's plenty of things they'd have to get right as a base.

  12. #10892
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkarath View Post
    I thought about the possibility of adapting WoW to the new playerbase that it needs so much. This would not be WoW 2.0 but a kind of transition, like Overwatch - Overwatch 2 (hopefully it would work better). But the steps that Blizzard are talking are clearly not in that direction, which is concerning but understandable. In order to do that they would need to basically redo the game again. They just cannot cut by half the skills of all specs and change how combat works, for instance. Something like that would literally need a new game.
    It's not even a matter of needing to redo the game.

    Younger audiences have very little interest in MMO games. A WoW2 rework, or even a completely new WoW, would not garner the popularity or cultural relevance that the first game had in the BC/LK era. It would need to be an entirely different sort of game. Like Fallout 2 -> Fallout 3, or FF13 > 14. Younger audiences are not interested in traditional progression RPGs, questing, steady world exploration. They like drop-in, drop-out competitive match based games with little to no story because they aren't playing games to be told one. Just look at every game that has been successful with those age groups over the past 5-10 years. BRs like Fortnite and Apex, Fall Guys, Among Us. The segment of younger players that best parallels old RPG players in previous generations is the group of younger gamers who are now into stuff like Roblox and Minecraft, they also aren't looking for an RPG or MMO, they like sandboxy run around, do whatever and build stuff gameplay.

    Blizzard understands this. That's why their new IP isn't an MMO (like they hoped OW/Titan was going to be), it's a multiplayer survival game. A genre that appeals nicely to both those sorts of players but at current lacks a totally dominant AAA title.

    I think they've largely just made peace with the MMORPG genre not being a growth sector. The people they are trying to market to are the already established, veteran MMORPG players, while keeping the game accessible for the trickle of occasional new players. They are trying to keep the game relevant in that aging group and working on other stuff for more mainstream appeal.
    Last edited by Hitei; 2023-07-30 at 10:34 PM.

  13. #10893
    The amount of RPG aspects in modern games proves otherwise.

  14. #10894
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    The amount of RPG aspects in modern games proves otherwise.
    Yeah, occasional trace elements in some popular games doesn't really indicate that RPGs are popular with younger audiences. It indicates that the people designing video games are people who view those trace elements as a go-to in video games.

  15. #10895
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Younger audiences have very little interest in MMO games. A WoW2 rework, or even a completely new WoW, would not garner the popularity or cultural relevance that the first game had in the BC/LK era. It would need to be an entirely different sort of game. Like Fallout 2 -> Fallout 3, or FF13 > 14. Younger audiences are not interested in traditional progression RPGs, questing, steady world exploration. They like drop-in, drop-out competitive match based games with little to no story because they aren't playing games to be told one. Just look at every game that has been successful with those age groups over the past 5-10 years. BRs like Fortnite and Apex, Fall Guys, Among Us. The segment of younger players that best parallels old RPG players in previous generations is the group of younger gamers who are now into stuff like Roblox and Minecraft, they also aren't looking for an RPG or MMO, they like sandboxy run around, do whatever and build stuff gameplay.
    While I used to have your same thoughts, those that see the MMO genre as dead, I realised that there is clearly something that I was missing, because there are quite a lot of MMOs in development. Like a ton of them. Some of them of big IP's. Some of them with very powerful companies behind them.

    I do not understand why this is happening but that does not change that it is happening.

    Also, these days almost every game has an open world with RPG and sandbox elements, and it does not seem that that is going to change anytime soon. Young players eventually mature and usually flee competitive games for those open world games, or maybe for MMOs? Because I do not know how all those future MMOs are going to find an audience.
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  16. #10896
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Yeah, occasional trace elements in some popular games doesn't really indicate that RPGs are popular with younger audiences. It indicates that the people designing video games are people who view those trace elements as a go-to in video games.
    They don't need younger audiences to have successful games. And not all young people enjoy the same games anyway. Chasing that high of showing big numbers for the shareholders is why their games are in the state they're in today.

    If that's what we're going to see from Blizzard then nothing is going to change. If that's what we're going to be seeing from gaming in general then fuck gaming because that sounds absolutely horrendous.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkarath View Post
    While I used to have your same thoughts, those that see the MMO genre as dead, I realised that there is clearly something that I was missing, because there are quite a lot of MMOs in development. Like a ton of them. Some of them of big IP's. Some of them with very powerful companies behind them.

    I do not understand why this is happening but that does not change that it is happening.

    Also, these days almost every game has an open world with RPG and sandbox elements, and it does not seem that that is going to change anytime soon. Young players eventually mature and usually flee competitive games for those open world games, or maybe for MMOs? Because I do not know how all those future MMOs are going to find an audience.
    Here's the thing. If games are good, they will sell and attract people regardless of genre. There absolutely are genres that will pull a vast amount of people, but guess what, there's way more gamers now than there were 20 years ago, even more people too. Any genre can pull in people. Being niche doesn't mean bad, or unsuccessful.

  17. #10897
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    Here's the thing. If games are good, they will sell and attract people regardless of genre. There absolutely are genres that will pull a vast amount of people, but guess what, there's way more gamers now than there were 20 years ago, even more people too. Any genre can pull in people. Being niche doesn't mean bad, or unsuccessful.
    Yes, good games would generally attract players. But the fact that so many companies are developing MMOs, a VERY risky genre, with a VERY large development time, and with VERY high budgets, seems quite unexpected, at least for me.

    What I believe is that these "MMOs", at least most of them, would not really be MMOs. They would adapt the Genshin Impact "multiplayer" style, which we are already seeing in Blue Protocol or even Diablo 4. Hell even FFXIV is taking clear steps in that direction.

    I hope that Blizzard wakes the fuck up and start going in that direction too.
    Last edited by Darkarath; 2023-07-30 at 11:01 PM.
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  18. #10898
    Mechagnome Ameonna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    To be fair, excitement for WoD during and right after Blizzcon was extremely high. And then they started cutting content and pretending they never said it would be included (Karabor anyone?)
    Let me be honest with you but, when someone told me (because i was raiding on HC (back then it was hc not MM) on Garrosh during the announcement) that Garrosh would go back in time to make an iron horde i was like "Hmm, you trolling right?" Because to me the plot was so bad, so stupid that i could not beleive it was true...

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    It had a troubled development and I still recall one of the devs there(I think) that gorgrond got changed really close to release but yes.. most people know of the lost potential of WoD.
    And they said themselves why they changed Gorgrond for 2 reasons, 1 is because they remade all their zones to have less orcs focused plots because ppl were getting sick of orcs (no shit after 401 days of siege of orgrimar how could they guess!) and also because they scrapped faralhon and pout it in Gorgrond, yes, all the jungle parts even the everbloom dungeons were meant to be in Faralhon at frist.

    When you analyse wod you clearly do an autopsy from end to finish everything in the expac is like a tribute to a dead idea that from the start was bad and never got to live.

  19. #10899
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkarath View Post
    Yes, good games would generally attract players. But the fact that so many companies are developing MMOs, a VERY risky genre, with a VERY large development time, and with VERY high budgets, seems quite unexpected, at least for me.

    What I believe is that these "MMOs", at least most of them, would not really be MMOs. They would adapt the Genshin Impact "multiplayer" style, which we are already seeing in Blue Protocol or even Diablo 4. Hell even FFXIV is taking clear steps in that direction.

    I hope that Blizzard wakes the fuck up and start going in that direction too.
    You mean the solo gameplay kind of direction?

  20. #10900
    Mechagnome Ameonna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    If they ever make a WoW 2.
    Lets do something simple about wow 2? I advise you to talk about it in around 10y, then if its out during that time, then can talk about it, but if its not, lets talk about it again in 10y (20y) etc ok?

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