The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Aeluron Lightsong]

You don't need to wipe a faction to have a decisive win over it though. You just need to be willing to commit to having changes in the world. Horde wiping out Stormwind and then the Alliance moving to Ironforge, together with an Ironforge revamp to move the content that needs to be moved would absolutely work. It would also be a lot of work for Blizzard that they are not really willing to do.

No thanks, that sounds bad. Lets not do that.

Clearly? See, the moment I see someone be 100% sure about something they have no way of knowing, I know they have no idea what they are talking about. 11.0 has a solid chance to have a Void plot. There is nothing clear about it being the primary plot.

I don't expect us to jump into the Void after DF, maybe 12.0 tho

[Xilurm]

If they revamp Kalimdor and EK, they can have the levelling experience be there AND the endgame experience be there. No need for Chromie Time anymore. You start there and end there. When the next expansion after that comes around, you just naturally move to the new place. Characters made after that start in the revamped Kalimdor and EK and level through those until they reach the new expansion zones for the last 10 levels. Pretty much how Vanilla to TBC worked.

Chromie Time is such a mess right now. Levelling in general is a mess. If they fix all that they can just leave all the old campaigns in the game and let them be optional through Chromie Time at max lvl which Chromie Time should've been in the first place. Give people a mount or a mog as an incentive to go do those past campaigns after they've reached max level and are bored of current content, that'd be great.

[Woggmer]

Why is thornspeaker druidism considered the outlier but Worgen Druidism is considered normal? The Thornspeakers achieved Druidism all by themselves while all the other races had to be given a shapeshifter permit by a Wild God. Honestly, unless Cenarius just comes out & says "I'm giving everyone the gift of Druidism now let me go to sleep" (reasonably likely based on how much of a handwave it is) it seems easier for Humans to simply be taught the Thornspeaker Druidic rites.

Because the thornspeakers learned about Druidism from the Drust.

Worgen/Gilnean were called Harvest-witches, their practice came from a time when Humans were still forming tribes before they built up kingdoms. Around that time, humans were dabbling in all sorts of stuff like Shamanism and Druidism.. but it became a dying practice when Lordaeron spread the word of the Light and it became the new religion.. on top of them meeting the High Elves showing them the ways of the Arcane... all that stuff pushed all those practices away with the only outliers being Gilneas who are stubborn in their old ways and Kul'tiras (which was founded by Gilnean sailors)

[Ersula]

Worgen/Gilnean were called Harvest-witches, their practice came from a time when Humans were still forming tribes before they built up kingdoms. Around that time, humans were dabbling in all sorts of stuff like Shamanism and Druidism.. but it became a dying practice when Lordaeron spread the word of the Light and it became the new religion.. on top of them meeting the High Elves showing them the ways of the Arcane... all that stuff pushed away all that stuff with the only outliers being Gilneas who are stubborn in their old ways and Kul'tiras (which was founded by Gilnean sailors)

You shouldn't assume the "Harvest-witches" who revered nature are the same thing as contemporary Druids. They're only namechecked in Gilnean questlines to reference that their people once revered nature (as all cultures do if you go back far enough.) The Worgen Druid you play as wouldn't be able to do half the things a druid could do if Cenarus & Malfurion didn't also bless you, out of necessity, at the end of your origin questline.

Taking that into consideration, Ancient Gilneans worshiping nature isn't any different from Ancient Kul Tirans worshiping Gorak Tul. So I say again, Kul Tirans figuring out how to be a druid through craft alone seems more accessible than getting a wild god's blessing.

(Edit: You might just say "Gorak Tul is also a Wild God and that's where they get druidism" and that's valid but if were are to assume the Fire Druids got their blessing from Ragnaros then and from Fyrakk now, it seems whomever you get it from can rescind that blessing, so being Gorak Tul's enemies they would have lost it, but they didn't. So instead I propose Gorak Tul's druidism came purely from secrets of the Titans, which were passed on through the years. If your reaction to this is "Well, who's to say they can rescind the blessing of Druidism at all" then I say "Then its just a learned craft for everybody & nothing is barring everyone from becoming druids so the whole conversation is moot.")

[Kiivar86]

You don't need to wipe a faction to have a decisive win over it though. You just need to be willing to commit to having changes in the world. Horde wiping out Stormwind and then the Alliance moving to Ironforge, together with an Ironforge revamp to move the content that needs to be moved would absolutely work. It would also be a lot of work for Blizzard that they are not really willing to do.

Yeah and I don't see that happening either. For one it greatly demoralizes the side that actually loses, which may work in real life but in a game you don't want to make one side feel like they're being punished.

Just look at how the Alliance felt like they were an absolute punching bag for Cataclysm with losing zones. Yes it did help to balance out an existing imbalance but all it did in the end was making it feel like the Alliance was losing, losing, losing, and the Horde was victorious. Animosity grew from that for years.

It is also, as you say, a lot of work. I just don't see that happening in an MMO.

[Xilurm]

Yeah and I don't see that happening either. For one it greatly demoralizes the side that actually loses, which may work in real life but in a game you don't want to make one side feel like they're being punished.

Just look at how the Alliance felt like they were an absolute punching bag for Cataclysm with losing zones. Yes it did help to balance out an existing imbalance but all it did in the end was making it feel like the Alliance was losing, losing, losing, and the Horde was victorious. Animosity grew from that for years.

It is also, as you say, a lot of work. I just don't see that happening in an MMO.

War of Thorns too. And yeah the Forsaken lost their capital but that didn't last long, they got it back already. But the alliance lost a zone that's impossible to get back.

[Nymrohd]

Yeah and I don't see that happening either. For one it greatly demoralizes the side that actually loses, which may work in real life but in a game you don't want to make one side feel like they're being punished.

Just look at how the Alliance felt like they were an absolute punching bag for Cataclysm with losing zones. Yes it did help to balance out an existing imbalance but all it did in the end was making it feel like the Alliance was losing, losing, losing, and the Horde was victorious. Animosity grew from that for years.

It is also, as you say, a lot of work. I just don't see that happening in an MMO.

I mean the idea is, you eventually get it back, and better.

[Cheezits]

I mean the idea is, you eventually get it back, and better.

6+ years IRL for the Tree is way too long to wait IMO, Stormwind/Ironforge wouldn't be any different.

[locketto]

I could see Wratheye return as some kind of hungry monster. Corrupted fully by decay as a boss with some gnoll trash. But other than
Was this the same guy that made us guess what evokers are with pictures of drek'thar and little riddles? fun times!

No was the guy who wrote about df weeks before the leak, and months before the release with corrects dates.

[Kiivar86]

I mean the idea is, you eventually get it back, and better.

Blizzard's been impressing me more as of late but I don't have that much faith.

We had a smoldering crater in Stormwind for how long, for example?

The idea is a nice one but not one I think Blizzard will accomplish.

Oh I found it, they guy who leaked dF

ALSO some others dude leaked others things, like logos etc, recap here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1758213767

Oh neat I didn't realize ercarp did a spreadsheet for Dragonflight too!

[locketto]

Oh I found it, they guy who leaked dF

ALSO some others dude leaked others things, like logos etc, recap here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1758213767

[Nymrohd]

Blizzard's been impressing me more as of late but I don't have that much faith.

We had a smoldering crater in Stormwind for how long, for example?

The idea is a nice one but not one I think Blizzard will accomplish.

I don't disagree, I said it on the post; it would only work if they were actually going to do the work and we have little evidence they are. I mean even now in DF, look at time rifts. They could have used slightly larger areas and transport us there instead we have just random mobs spawning and only the final boss is somehow thematic.
My point was mostly that faction war with consequences can be done, it would just take a lot of effort.

[Woggmer]

You shouldn't assume the "Harvest-witches" who revered nature are the same thing as contemporary Druids. They're only namechecked in Gilnean questlines to reference that their people once revered nature (as all cultures do if you go back far enough.) The Worgen Druid you play as wouldn't be able to do half the things a druid could do if Cenarus & Malfurion didn't also bless you, out of necessity, at the end of your origin questline.

Taking that into consideration, Ancient Gilneans worshiping nature isn't any different from Ancient Kul Tirans worshiping Gorak Tul. So I say again, Kul Tirans figuring out how to be a druid through craft alone seems more accessible than getting a wild god's blessing.

(Edit: You might just say "Gorak Tul is also a Wild God and that's where they get druidism" and that's valid but if were are to assume the Fire Druids got their blessing from Ragnaros then and from Fyrakk now, it seems whomever you get it from can rescind that blessing, so being Gorak Tul's enemies they would have lost it, but they didn't. So instead I propose Gorak Tul's druidism came purely from secrets of the Titans, which were passed on through the years. If your reaction to this is "Well, who's to say they can rescind the blessing of Druidism at all" then I say "Then its just a learned craft for everybody & nothing is barring everyone from becoming druids so the whole conversation is moot.")

Except that Gorak Tul wasn't a wild god, but a sorcerer king who tapped into the realm of Thros and warped the Drust. You're thinking of Ulfar who is the closest and oldest living Thornspeaker (He's pretty much the last of the uncorrupted Thornspeakers) we have that can teach people the ways of being a druid... and even then they don't know they're a druid until "they hear the call of the wild."

I can only see Gorak Tul's methods working for the Forsaken rather than humans... but even that's a bit of a stretch.

[Dracullus]

I hope dream zone will be better designed than Zaralek. They really need to revamp this place for single player, rares are always up because no one is doing them, every one is designed for group. So if you want to get drake patterns from them - good luck with that.

Korthia was ugly as hell, but it was ALWAYS active during 9.1, so called 'dead patch when everyone left'.

[Lahis]

I hope dream zone will be better designed than Zaralek. They really need to revamp this place for single player, rares are always up because no one is doing them, every one is designed for group. So if you want to get drake patterns from them - good luck with that.

Korthia was ugly as hell, but it was ALWAYS active during 9.1, so called 'dead patch when everyone left'.

Group rares used to not be a problem because people were constantly farming them.

But DF world content has not been anything but rare farming. With Zaralek releasing right after Forbidden Reach, which was just rare farming, people were really burned out of it already.

Emerald Dream needs something new.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I hope dream zone will be better designed than Zaralek. They really need to revamp this place for single player, rares are always up because no one is doing them, every one is designed for group. So if you want to get drake patterns from them - good luck with that.

Korthia was ugly as hell, but it was ALWAYS active during 9.1, so called 'dead patch when everyone left'.

Non instanced content needs to have more(And the very frustrating criticism I have about world quests and its timer but I said it many times already so I don't wanna annoy you).

The events is nice but I think it should still supplement world quests to. More stuff to do in the open world is a win for the game. I value it more then the rares.

[Kiivar86]

Group rares used to not be a problem because people were constantly farming them.

But DF world content has not been anything but rare farming. With Zaralek releasing right after Forbidden Reach, which was just rare farming, people were really burned out of it already.

Emerald Dream needs something new.

Those Dream Surge things seem like the same mixed with Time Rifts (just more frequent) so hope they do something vastly different for Emerald Dream proper.

[Ersula]

Except that Gorak Tul wasn't a wild god, but a sorcerer king who tapped into the realm of Thros and warped the Drust. You're thinking of Ulfar who is the closest and oldest living Thornspeaker (He's pretty much the last of the uncorrupted Thornspeakers) we have that can teach people the ways of being a druid... and even then they don't know they're a druid until "they hear the call of the wild."

I can only see Gorak Tul's methods working for the Forsaken rather than humans... but even that's a bit of a stretch.

So what are you trying to say? I was not implying Ulfar was a Wild God; I was just pointing out that while Night Elves had to work for thousands of years to learn how to be druids, Cenarius simply waved his hands & granted the same powers to the Tauren & Worgen in an instant. It sounds like you're trying to invalidate Kul Tiran Druid lore by using a common colloquialism to imply Kul Tiran Druids are some kind of mutation, instead of a vocation.

There's nothing in-universe to imply Kul Tiran Humans & Stormwind Humans are genetically different, at least not as different as Stormwind Humans & Forsaken Humans.

The question here is: If Night Elves, Worgen, Trolls & Tauren needed the intervention of a Wild God to become full-fledged Druids, why didn't the Kul Tirans? They didn't need any supernatural intervention, so why would any other race? Or are we saying concretely that Gorak Tul did it?

[Well Done Steak]

It's as simple as this, race wants to be a druid? They study to be a druid. It's just magic.

[Sondrelk]

Group rares used to not be a problem because people were constantly farming them.

But DF world content has not been anything but rare farming. With Zaralek releasing right after Forbidden Reach, which was just rare farming, people were really burned out of it already.

Emerald Dream needs something new.

The issue with world content will usually tend to be the same. Make it reliant on grouping and it will be almost impossible to complete to full later in the season, and make it tuned more towards a small amount of players and it will be a complete stomp for the first few month or two.

Not sure how open world content could go around this. The only one that I remember still getting praise is the Nazjatar PvP, and even that I feel was more due to riding Warmode being a new feature that players liked.