The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[micwini]

except their quarter calls literaly say retention is higher...
maybe read things before trying to use them as source?

It seems you are correct:
Q4 2022: https://www.mmo-champion.com/content/11226-Activision-Blizzard-Q4-2022-Earnings-Results
"World of Warcraft delivered significant year-over-year growth in reach, engagement and net bookings in the fourth quarter following the September release of Wrath of the Lich King Classic and the November launch of Dragonflight"

Q1 2023: https://www.mmo-champion.com/content...rnings-Results
"Subscriber retention in the West is higher than at the equivalent stage of recent Modern expansions."

Q2 2023: https://www.wowhead.com/news/activis...ookings-334163
"The World of Warcraft® team is delivering more content faster than ever before following the November release of the Dragonflight™ expansion for the Modern game, and subscriber retention in the West remains higher than at the equivalent stage of recent Modern expansions."

Almost the exact same statement for the past 2 quarters. Sales initially were low, but that is understandable after Shadowlands

[Lolites]

Almost the exact same statement for the past 2 quarters. Sales initially were low, but that is understandable after Shadowlands

neither of which is surprising, little change ingame warants little change in statements, and as for initial sales, yeah, SL really didnt get them much goodwill...

[Darkarath]

neither of which is surprising, little change ingame warants little change in statements, and as for initial sales, yeah, SL really didnt get them much goodwill...

I would really like to know how much DF sold.

SL was the biggest success in history until Cyberpunk 2077 came. Which is nuts. An almost 20 years old MMO subscription game sold 3'7 millions units within the first 24 hours of its release. After BfA. It is just ridiculous. I know that COVID helped a lot but even so, is crazy.

How many of those 3'7 millions (which for sure were many many more while SL was live) still remain? I am convinced that if a revamp happens Blizzard can break those numbers. It is another thing that they can keep the people playing, but they would sell millions. Anything that it is not a revamp does not have a chance of coming close to that.

[Dracullus]

hell actualy the "time table" you put in makes the 10.3 existence MORE likely, expansion in august when people have vacations is very unlikely...

I don't think release month matter that much, imo main reason SL sold better than average expansion on release was covid and shit ton of people staying in home. DF not repeating this success kinda proves that.

And how August expac is unlikely when it happen THREE times in a row - 2016 Legion, 2018 BfA, 2019 Classic (not expansion, but shows Blizzard isn't waiting for Fall with potential popular WoW stuff).

Imo expac just release earliest time it can be ready. Usually it's 2 years, sometimes it take longer (MoP->WoD, BfA->SL) and release month move forward, sometimes it's shorter (TBC->Wrath, WoD->Legion) and release move backward.

[micwini]

I would really like to know how much DF sold.

SL was the biggest success in history until Cyberpunk 2077 came. Which is nuts. An almost 20 years old MMO subscription game sold 3'7 millions units within the first 24 hours of its release. After BfA. It is just ridiculous. I know that COVID helped a lot but even so, is crazy.

How many of those 3'7 millions (which for sure were many many more while SL was live) still remain? I am convinced that if a revamp happens Blizzard can break those numbers. It is another thing that they can keep the people playing, but they would sell millions. Anything that it is not a revamp does not have a chance of coming close to that.

I don't think release month matter that much, imo main reason SL sold better than average expansion on release was covid and shit ton of people staying in home. DF not repeating this success kinda proves that.

And how August expac is unlikely when it happen THREE times in a row - 2016 Legion, 2018 BfA, 2019 Classic (not expansion, but shows Blizzard isn't waiting for Fall with potential popular WoW stuff).

Imo expac just release earliest time it can be ready. Usually it's 2 years, sometimes it take longer (MoP->WoD, BfA->SL) and release month move forward, sometimes it's shorter (TBC->Wrath, WoD->Legion) and release move backward.

The cinematic also had the Lich King in it. Sy what you will but I think marketing wise that was brilliant. Especially towards the people that played far in the past and those who don't follow the news on the game 24/7.
August is indeed just as good of a candidate for a release month as any other month.

I think its just so hard to predict a 10.3 because they could release 11.0 as early as august, but also as late as early 2025, which is a full major patch of difference in time. It really depends on the scope of the next expansion as well as if they have been able to keep up this content cadence. It is still unknown how much the good content cadence of DF has to do with abandoning SL. Just like Legion had a good cadence because they ditched WoD.

[Cheezits]

But wouldn't this make more sense for 10.2? They are both absent from this patch. Maybe there is some hidden story quest, but i dont know... In one of the cinematics Vyranoth literally froze a tree before fyrakk burned it, so if thats not foreshadowing that they will at least start with the same goal in 10.2 then i don't know what is.

There is a three minute(!) encrypted cinematic and then another smaller one, so there is definitely hidden main story in 10.1.7.

[Lolites]

There is a three minute encrypted cinematic and then another smaller one, so there is definitely hidden main story in 10.1.7.

there is story about Tyr in patch so might be something with him

[Cheezits]

there is story about Tyr in patch so might be something with him

There hasn't been a cinematic about Tyr yet but it's definitely possible.

I think it's going to be the Ysera/Alex reunion.

[Catastrophy349]

Don’t forget, we have been getting a cinematic for EVERY patch (pre-patch release), too. 10.0.7 “Secrets of the Reach”, 10.1 “Opening the Way”, and 10.1.5 “A Matter of Time”.

[Murlocos]

I think its just so hard to predict a 10.3 because they could release 11.0 as early as august, but also as late as early 2025, which is a full major patch of difference in time. It really depends on the scope of the next expansion as well as if they have been able to keep up this content cadence. It is still unknown how much the good content cadence of DF has to do with abandoning SL. Just like Legion had a good cadence because they ditched WoD.

To be fair, WoD was dumped harder than SL was. As much as you can malign the design decisions of 9.1, it was a 'real' major patch compared to 6.1 which I'd put somewhere between 10.0.5 and 10.1.7 in terms of beefiness. SL's content problems came from an apparent breakdown in their development cycle rather than being unceremoniously dropped out of the gate.

I'll throw my hat into the ring and say that I think ending the expansion with 10.2 would be a big mistake. If there's two embedded and firm narratives for the game at this point, it's that a lengthy content drought is expected between expansions, and that well received expansions are followed by poorly received ones. A lot of the focus is naturally on 11.0 being able to run because DF walked, but I believe it'd be a huge fumble in that department to squander the trust and goodwill of things earnestly changing for the better by falling into yet another 10-12 month quagmire of nothing new.

On top of that, I don't think they can sufficiently wrap up DF's story beats within 10.2 and its following patches. I'm very wary of the comment made around launch that they want expansions to have even more connecting tissue; in practice in the last few expansions, it's felt more like the writers get bored of the story they're writing halfway through and start dangling a whole bunch of new teasers and mystery boxes in front of you for the next expansion. I think we're in much more need of definitive and satisfying conclusions to some of these plotlines rather than being yanked along wondering about what vague threat the current villain is slowly monologing about before they leave for the next expansion.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

There hasn't been a cinematic about Tyr yet but it's definitely possible.

I think it's going to be the Ysera/Alex reunion.

Considering how long she's been around in 10.0 yeah that feels right.

[micwini]

Don’t forget, we have been getting a cinematic for EVERY patch (pre-patch release), too. 10.0.7 “Secrets of the Reach”, 10.1 “Opening the Way”, and 10.1.5 “A Matter of Time”.

Im not sure about a pre-release one this time around. 10.0.5 didnt have one and the one for 10.1.5, as far as I've seen, you can't even watch ingame? I don't know what they could do as a cinematic intro for 10.1.7. We're not going anywhere and all the story stuff comes from the questlines.

I always hope for one, but Im not counting on an intro cinematic for 1.7

[Well Done Steak]

Why does this guy still think the Azewrath stuff contradicted the 1 Legion shit???

Did the Illidan novel not make any of this shit clear???

How did the illidan novel make it clear??

Bell is right, that one legion bullshit is essentially reconned with Azewrath.

Good thing too because it's fucking stupid and made up on the spot by a perv who no longe works there

[Woggmer]

Again, I'm not disagreeing with you on the necessity of a revamp. But I disagree with you when it comes to your other assessment for the old zones. They're irrelevant for retail. That's sad, as Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor are basically the heart and sould of this game, but they're old, outdated and not worth the effort needed to revamp them up to date.

This really is a cost vs. effort thing and the effort will never be worth the cost in this case. It's easier to create an expansion with 4 or 5 initial zones for $40 than to revamp a multiple of those zones for the same price. I would love more based stories in old zones, something like Guild Wars 2 is doing with its next expansion after they finished their 10 year long story arc, but for retail WoW it's just not the approach they wanna go. It always needs to be bigger, badder and - in the future - more otherworldy / cosmic. I fear the time when we completely abandon Azeroth and travel through space and time for a Void expansion or whatever - but that's the imminent future for this game while the old world will just be left behind.

The space travel thing will never work. No matter how many times they make us leave Azeroth, the new worlds they make us explore aren't as interesting and the stay is short lived.

Let me put it this way, In WoD and SL, we only spent about 2 patches focused in those realms and barely given much time to actually learn or even care about them. And while there are always different reasons as for why those expansions were cut short (either because of Legion's development for WoD, or the Lawsuits and Covid for SL) the expansions end up having horrific executions and some of the most damaging lore-breaking ideas ever made. TBC is the outlier because there's also content to go back to on Azeroth because of Karazhan, the Caverns of Time, Zul'Aman, and even Quel'Danas and the Sunwell Plateau.

All I'm saying is this, WoW's strength is the world they created, not the universe it lives in or what lies beyond it.

[Gurahk]

The different timelines only apply to reality and those who live within it, retconning the "one legion" means they have to make it so every cosmic order has different timeline versions of them.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

The space travel thing will never work. No matter how many times they make us leave Azeroth, the new worlds they make us explore aren't as interesting and the stay is short lived.

Let me put it this way, In WoD and SL, we only spent about 2 patches focused in those realms and barely given much time to actually learn or even care about them. And while there are always different reasons as for why those expansions were cut short (either because of Legion's development for WoD, or the Lawsuits and Covid for SL) the expansions end up having horrific executions and some of the most damaging lore-breaking ideas ever made. TBC is the outlier because there's also content to go back to on Azeroth because of Karazhan, the Caverns of Time, Zul'Aman, and even Quel'Danas and the Sunwell Plateau.

All I'm saying is this, WoW's strength is the world they created, not the universe it lives in or what lies beyond it.

Outland exists and WoD didn't suffer because of its different world themes.

[Xilurm]

*Laughs in Anduin Wrynn, Deathwing, Garrosh, Medivh, Grommash, the Lich King, Sylvanas, Sargeras, Xavius, Azshara, etc.*

None of these compare though. Anduin comes closest, but it's not anything like what people are expecting to happen with Alexstrasza. He was pretty much a sock puppet, mind controlled by someone way above his league.

With that said...

Deathwing's corruption started 20k years ago and he's been evil throughout most of Warcraft's history.

Garrosh was a douchebag and had 3 expansions worth of build up and development of being bad.

Medivh's corruption started in the womb. It all played out before WoW was even a thing.

Grommash. Another character that started out as a douchebag, no surprises there.

The Lich King as Arthas had a whole game about him, an expansion to that game, multiple quests and dungeons that built him up as a background threat in Vanilla and finally his very own WoW expansion.

Sylvanas wasn't exactly the very best kind of person to begin with when she was killed in WC3, and then like Garrosh also had 3 expansions building up her villain arc.

Sargeras. I mean... really?

Xavius is 10k years old.

Azshara was never good to begin with.

None of these characters suddenly decided to turn evil over the course of a single patch. Decided being the keyword here, so Anduin doesn't count.

[Scyth]

There hasn't been a cinematic about Tyr yet but it's definitely possible.

I think it's going to be the Ysera/Alex reunion.

I reckon it will involve Ysera, Merithra and Fyrak attacking the tree tbh. Not sure about Alex though but I do hope we get a cinematic of the two of them.

[Woggmer]

Outland exists and WoD didn't suffer because of its different world themes.

That doesn't change my point. If we ever have an expansion that has us leaving Azeroth for some other planet or some other worldly-plane. Then Blizzard will treat it like a filler arc...and a I already said in my post.

"TBC is the outlier because there's also content to go back to on Azeroth because of Karazhan, the Caverns of Time, Zul'Aman, and even Quel'Danas and the Sunwell Plateau."

We pretty much have no reason to stay in Outland after we've defeat Illidan.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

Nothing says "goodwill" and PR building like blowing up the internet with another Blizzard scandal about reducing content cadence to 2 major patches.