The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Dracullus]

Sorry but .5 and .7 patches will never be able to replace major ones. major patches are those that retain most players.


A 12+ months of content drought is BAD especially when dragonflight lacks big features and meaningful content.

And here you are totally wrong. Lot of small updates are keeping people. Big chunks every few months fails. In every report Blizzard tell us DF is better as this than previous expacs.

...what's that 'meaningful' content again that other expacs had and DF has not?

Also I told drought and the end of DF wouldn't be huge issue, not that I expect that.

After shadowlands and the first half of dragonflight, the only way to justify (again) the lack of a third major patch would be a full world revamp which is not going to happen. The sentiment around the game and blizzard is already not great. Losing patch 10.3 would be yet another blow to the game's reputation.

Because you said so? Btw, is there currently some bad mood in WoW community I haven't notice? Because I see something opposite.

Btw, show me this expansion with 3 big patches. Is it MoP where 5.1 was daily hub? Or Legion where 7.1 was timegated questline in Suramar? Or BfA with again, questline and invasions? This is something DF adds in 10.1.5 patch.. and 10.0.7 is bigger than that.

(and again, I skip raid content on purpose, cause I already told no 10.3 means less raid content)

The 2 incarnates protecting the World Tree isn't a bad set up but part of it is...famillar(Fiery entity threatens a world tree *Cough*Ragnaros *Cough*)

Protecting? (I assume it was misspelled). Well Ragnaros threatened but not really attacked tree. But when I picture fight in open space with tree in background and full of dragons.. somehow this picture clicked for me as final DF fight.

[Murlocos]

If you want to go all the way back, then 3.3 and Cataclysm were both announced at Blizzcon 2009, a few weeks after 3.2 launched. From what I could dig up, it looks like they were going through both the patch and expansion back and forth, though this was for more bespoke panels like Raid & Dungeon Design rather than something generic like "The Future of WoW". If 10.3 exists, I think it gets announced at Blizzcon as part of a 2024 roadmap, but the focus is on the expansion with maybe a sneak peak at 10.2.5.

[Scyth]

Blizzard has shown that they can do things differently if they wanted to (like introducing a new spec halfway through the xpac) so I wouldn't be shocked if they talked about 10.3 at Blizzcon before introducing the new xpac.

[Nightmare Queen]

That is a horrid excuse. And I repeat this over and over again... Alliance killed Talanji's father in BFA and she has to sit there and accept the Alliance as friends after they raided her home and killed her father?

Something tells me that she actually spoke to her father's spirit, and got told to stop trying to take revenge for his death.
That or, Blizzard forgot.

[Imotbh]

Literally any date we give for 10.2, it conflicts with something. October 17th/24th, conflicts with RWF/Blizzcon. November 7th/14th, conflicts with Thanksgiving. Don’t forget, the Season starts one week AFTER the patch launches.

There's no "conflict". They don't really care about holidays etc., it's all marketing/number-related and they wouldn't delay a patch because of usual IRL stuff. Blizz is a creature of habits and often goes like clockwork. They'll follow their schedule as closely as possible just like they've done in Legion and so far in DF.

It means 10.2 should be on October 17th > raid on 24th > RWF will pretty much be over by Blizzcon. If it isn't done, they'll either have a few people staying at the office or fix the bugs on Monday, after Blizzcon. It's already happened in the past that a raid was ongoing but employees were on holiday and they handled the bugs after their holiday (Nathria is the most recent one IIRC).

Additionally, a 10.3 most definitely means a late 2024 11.0. Without a 10.3, why can’t 11.0 release sooner than late 2024? It doesn’t need to be a year long 10.2 patch.

Yes and no doubt it's intentional. 2-years long expansion has been their go-to formula forever. I understand some people would maybe like shorter (or longer) expansions but pragmatism, facts and/or stats are better suited when trying to imagine what a company would do

In addition, and not targeted to you specifically, the amount of people believing there won't be a 10.3 is too damn high. There will be one, guaranteed. Even with a 10.3 (which should be in April), you still have time for a 10.3.5 and a 10.3.7. That being said, x.x.7 are supposed to be prologue to the next story chapter but since an expansion would be next, it doesn't have to be here. The first big patch (11.0 here) is already the prologue to the actual expansion release anyway, they might as well use 10.3.7 for an extra fun bit if they wanted to.

As others have said, the Shadowlands fated season was unusual and most likely there to limit people quitting the game/show the content to newcomers/returning players while waiting for DF. They said they were happy with it and they could do it again in the future. It's not guaranteed by any means, it's an open door. 4-season (or tier as they were called before) expansion is usually the norm. The cases where it was different are the fucked-up/cut content expansions aka Cata/WoD/SL.

[Catastrophy349]

There's no "conflict". They don't really care about holidays etc., it's all marketing/number-related and they wouldn't delay a patch because of usual IRL stuff. Blizz is a creature of habits and often goes like clockwork. They'll follow their schedule as closely as possible just like they've done in Legion and so far in DF.

It means 10.2 should be on October 17th > raid on 24th > RWF will pretty much be over by Blizzcon. If it isn't done, they'll either have a few people staying at the office or fix the bugs on Monday, after Blizzcon. It's already happened in the past that a raid was ongoing but employees were on holiday and they handled the bugs after their holiday (Nathria is the most recent one IIRC).



Yes and no doubt it's intentional. 2-years long expansion has been their go-to formula forever. I understand some people would maybe like shorter (or longer) expansions but pragmatism, facts and/or stats are better suited when trying to imagine what a company would do

In addition, and not targeted to you specifically, the amount of people believing there won't be a 10.3 is too damn high. There will be one, guaranteed. Even with a 10.3 (which should be in April), you still have time for a 10.3.5 and a 10.3.7. That being said, x.x.7 are supposed to be prologue to the next story chapter but since an expansion would be next, it doesn't have to be here. The first big patch (11.0 here) is already the prologue to the actual expansion release anyway, they might as well use 10.3.7 for an extra fun bit if they wanted to.

As others have said, the Shadowlands fated season was unusual and most likely there to limit people quitting the game/show the content to newcomers/returning players while waiting for DF. They said they were happy with it and they could do it again in the future. It's not guaranteed by any means, it's an open door. 4-season (or tier as they were called before) expansion is usually the norm. The cases where it was different are the fucked-up/cut content expansions aka Cata/WoD/SL.

Yeah, by “conflict” (wrong word choice, for sure) I simply meant that “something” would almost always be in the way regardless of when 10.2 gets released. I wasn’t trying to defend, or justify Blizzard’s reasoning for postponing anything. Again, word choice was poor.

[Nymrohd]

I have to say I am confused at the purpose of these PTRs. Have they asked the community to test anything? Do they understand how feedback processes work? Because this simply is a means to drive engagement with incremental information released to dataminers. Few people even bother to test the events. Go back to BfA and a new event would have had a proper guide released before a patch went live while today you might not even get a proper guide ever. It doesn't help that WoWHead is a complete slave to the google algorithm and primarily cares for SEO and not actually presenting news. These days on both Blizzard and their major fan sites' side, it's mostly engagement exercises, little actual meat.

I wonder if they keep layering these "invasion" systems how Dragon Isles will look when someone flies over there a few years from now when it is no longer current content with all these mini events trying to squeeze the map for all its worth. We now have Elemental Storms, Fyrakk Assaults, Dreamsurges and who knows how many more are added. I mean at least it is keeping the main map relevant but it just feels so inconsequential.

[Well Done Steak]

Wait, based on what?

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"because Uldoroth suggests that other titans in other timelines succeeded."

Only Soridormi says that, and she is an unreliable narrator.

Also, none of the timeways and their stuff implies multiple Legions still. Need I remind you the Nether is unbound by Time entirely?

Unreliable narrator? She's nozzy's prime consort and his second in command... Who else would be reliable?

The fact that Azewrath exists implies there's multiple legions.

The only thing that implies one legion is a disgraced sexual harasser dev from one stupid interview where he made it up on the spot. Nothing in game nor in any book implies that the a single legion encompasses all timelines.

Just because time behaves differently in the nether, as shown in the turalyon and alleria story, doesn't imply one legion.

You can have time behave differently, like real life time dilation, and not have stupid ass none sense lore.

I mean think about it, if you go back in time to the war of the ancients and fight the legion did they just happen to time travel with you to relive their epic failure?

What happens to the legion in present time then? They just exist simultaneously with their past counter parts that only exist because YOU time traveled? It makes no god damn sense.

Be happy that 10.1.5 fixed this BS that was started by some shit face dev that had no idea what he was talking about instead of trying to defend it.

[Nymrohd]

Be happy that 10.1.5 fixed this BS that was started by some shit face dev that had no idea what he was talking about instead of trying to defend it.

He was the lead story writer at the point was he not? If he can just make stuff up at will it is not on him, it is on the Warcraft team management for not having a proper policy for their lore.

[Well Done Steak]

He was the lead story writer at the point was he not? If he can just make stuff up at will it is not on him, it is on the Warcraft team management for not having a proper policy for their lore.

It doesn't matter what he was.

Besides being disgraced from everything warcraft, there is nothing in game or warcraft literature that supports his ridiculous claim of one legion.

[Nymrohd]

It doesn't matter what he was.

Besides being disgraced from everything warcraft, there is nothing in game or warcraft literature that supports his ridiculous claim of one legion.

It absolutely matters what he was MR Alt Account. He was the Senior Creative Director, in an explicit position that allows him to make canon and the rest of the devs never directly corrected that claim instead skirted around it because the company does NOT have a proper policy when it comes to the story of Warcraft and thus outside Metzen the rest of them just deny they ever retcon things and try to gaslight the playerbase. Its why the major lore communities for Warcraft are almost all dead and we are left with MMOChampion which mostly has threads by cosplayers who have a hardon for a single issue and try to change every topic to that and this generic thread.

[Revamp Man]

I said previously that the timing still works if they decide to just not announce an expansion at Blizzcon and talk about 10.3 there instead. But now that they're seemingly pulling Metzen back in I really can't see that happening.

Could just talk about both

[Well Done Steak]

It absolutely matters what he was MR Alt Account. He was the Senior Creative Director, in an explicit position that allows him to make canon and the rest of the devs never directly corrected that claim instead skirted around it because the company does NOT have a proper policy when it comes to the story of Warcraft and thus outside Metzen the rest of them just deny they ever retcon things and try to gaslight the playerbase. Its why the major lore communities for Warcraft are almost all dead and we are left with MMOChampion which mostly has threads by cosplayers who have a hardon for a single issue and try to change every topic to that and this generic thread.

Okay but I'm talking about the situation now. Anything that man said or did is now moot.

Combine that with 10.1.5 and no actual support of his claim in game and books then his fuck up is now fixed.

[Revamp Man]

Literally any date we give for 10.2, it conflicts with something. October 17th/24th, conflicts with RWF/Blizzcon. November 7th/14th, conflicts with Thanksgiving. Don’t forget, the Season starts one week AFTER the patch launches.

Additionally, a 10.3 most definitely means a late 2024 11.0. Without a 10.3, why can’t 11.0 release sooner than late 2024? It doesn’t need to be a year long 10.2 patch.

No 10.3 would likely mean September

[Well Done Steak]

Yes, Nozdormu's consort would be an unreliable narrator. Hell, Nozdormu at the time was very much clouded and whatnot in terms of properly seeing through the timeways. Soridormi also confused a fractured causality with an actual "AU Illidan", which is false.

"The fact that Azewrath exists implies there's multiple legions."

No. Just means the Legion conquered that alternate universe and that AU Azeroth.

"The only thing that implies one legion is a disgraced sexual harasser dev from one stupid interview where he made it up on the spot. Nothing in game nor in any book implies that the a single legion encompasses all timelines."

Items in WoW, alongside the Illidan Novel showcase that this just isn't true. The Legion was going around, destroying and conquering every timeway that ever was.

And no, the Nether is straight up above Time, that's why things "feel" different to Alleria and Turalyon. There is no Time, so to them things feel weird. It has nothing to do with Time dilation.

Also, the going back in time stuff occurred by us going back to events that occurred in our history. How the Demons are affected here isn't fully known, but I think it works cause we were going back to events from the past and that can likely factor in for even Legion invasions I think? I mean, shit, Broxigar wasn't in the WoTA stuff til he went back in time with the time storm stuff. Now the canon states that he wounded Sargeras and whatnot. So I don't think going back to the past works the same way as traveling to alternate universes.

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That part is weird admittedly, but even if you retconned the 1 Legion stuff, it's weird so that's why I don't care for it.

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Outside of a whole novel, Steve Danuser doubling down on the whole time stuff with other Cosmic Realms like the Shadowlands, and items in game which imply otherwise of course...

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Once again, 10.1.5 doesn't retcon anything and there are many MANY things that just negate your points completely.

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The situation now is no different vs how it was back in 2014.

If things DID get retconned, then everything the last 9 years were trying to build up would have been for nothing.

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"What happens to the legion in present time then? They just exist simultaneously with their past counter parts that only exist because YOU time traveled? It makes no god damn sense."

My good sir, I present to you someone named Broxigar. He went back in time, and basically showcased that Demons can still be affected by the effects of traveling back and forward in time, without the need of any BS alternate self or anything like that.

How else did you thing Sargeras got his scar?

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Like I said, that part is a bit confusing, but overall, the Demons should still remain as 1 version of themselves all throughout

What in game items support this??

What about the illidan novel support this?

Nothing in shadowlands directly supports what Steve said.

Garrosh dying in au draenor and ending up in our shadowlands just shows that mortal souls are obviously anchored to their native SL.

Again, time behaving differently in various cosmic realms doesn't directly support the stupid claim that one demon army spans all time lines or one SL.

It's like the time chamber in dragon ball. Time inside the chamber flows much slower than time outside. Same concept for the twisting nether

Also, if we defeated the legion and dismantled them, how can Azewrath even exist???

Also what about demons who weren't originally demons to begin with like Arch and KJ?

See how flimsy one legion is?

[Santandame]

Ending DF with just the two incarnates would be a very odd DF ending.

Who else would it end with? Iridikron? We’ve already fought him and he’s clearly been set up to play the role of an overarching antagonist to span the greater narrative. Something this game needs more of. Xal’atath? She’s had very little setup, she’d feel rushed in like N’Zoth was. Same with Azshara. Odyn or Tyr would have made sense if they went with a Titanforged bad 10.3 but it’s not looking likely, and again, a future narrative arc. Chromatus hasn’t had any mention. Galakrond sadly seemed to have never been considered.

The two remaining Incarnates are the most fitting. They’ve been the villains from the start, and for the entirety of the expansion. I don’t see how it’s odd.

[Nymrohd]

Who else would it end with? Iridikron? We’ve already fought him and he’s clearly been set up to play the role of an overarching antagonist to span the greater narrative. Something this game needs more of. Xal’atath? She’s had very little setup, she’d feel rushed in like N’Zoth was. Same with Azshara. Odyn or Tyr would have made sense if they went with a Titanforged bad 10.3 but it’s not looking likely, and again, a future narrative arc. Chromatus hasn’t had any mention. Galakrond sadly seemed to have never been considered.

The two remaining Incarnates are the most fitting. They’ve been the villains from the start, and for the entirety of the expansion. I don’t see how it’s odd.

I think Fyrakk is falling in 10.2 and 10.3 will be Iridikron in a completely different form than what we fought in Dawn. They did say we will know who the villain is.

[Luck4]

All in all, you are just another guy who claims knowing for sure what made WoW successfully and how to bring it back. You'd think Blizz would also know what some random MMO-C poster does, eh? And if some players (personally haven't seen a single one) ask "Why are we solving the dragons' problems?", they paid absolutely ZERO attention to the story. And there is no helping that.

Vanilla was released twice, in 2004 and 2019, and both releases were well-received and extremely popular, meanwhile, we have Shadowlands a heavily cosmic expansion trading blows with Warlords for the podium of the worst expansion WoW had, but Warlords was abandoned, while Blizzard committed to Shadowlands with 3 raid tiers, 8 dgs + 1 mega dg, 3 max level outdoor zones, and a new instanced activity Torghast.

You act like the reason behind WoW's success is shrouded in mystery when the message is pretty much on the wall.

[Lady Atia]

"Fated season" ( /spit on it) brings no new content beside m+/raids.

They already said it will be back and that it would include new open world content among other stuff this time. Also, since when is a new pvp season with new rewards not new content?

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Who else would it end with? Iridikron? We’ve already fought him and he’s clearly been set up to play the role of an overarching antagonist to span the greater narrative. Something this game needs more of. Xal’atath? She’s had very little setup, she’d feel rushed in like N’Zoth was. Same with Azshara. Odyn or Tyr would have made sense if they went with a Titanforged bad 10.3 but it’s not looking likely, and again, a future narrative arc. Chromatus hasn’t had any mention. Galakrond sadly seemed to have never been considered.

The two remaining Incarnates are the most fitting. They’ve been the villains from the start, and for the entirety of the expansion. I don’t see how it’s odd.

That's. I'm quite hopeful they listened to the "you should have set-up Shadowlands and the Jailer with Legion and BfA" feedback and building an overarching narrative again (which they confirmed in interviews). So Iridikron would be our Guldan, while Xal and Aszhara would already be teased for the void expansion.

They also said they tried to not go obvious with the final bosses on the raids this time - hence we got Sarkareth. Having Fyrakk be the final Boss (who got all the build up and development with last patchs questing) with Iridikron (who we already fought this Expansion) being saved for 11.0. would fit with that.

[Makabreska]

Vanilla was released twice, in 2004 and 2019, and both releases were well-received and extremely popular, meanwhile, we have Shadowlands a heavily cosmic expansion trading blows with Warlords for the podium of the worst expansion WoW had, but Warlords was abandoned, while Blizzard committed to Shadowlands with 3 raid tiers, 8 dgs + 1 mega dg, 3 max level outdoor zones, and a new instanced activity Torghast.

You act like the reason behind WoW's success is shrouded in mystery when the message is pretty much on the wall.

Yes! It was defo the faction conflict that made Vanilla popular and not the fact it was brand new game from popular franchise that improved on many MMO aspects, and was just good in general (and btw, Classic popularity dropped dramatically in first month of release). And SL lack of popularity was defo only due to cosmic themes (which I admit was part of the issue), not to the fact that players were exhausted with temporary powers grind, content draught, weak villain and Blizz drama going on behind the scenes.

Really, it is so simple! Why a random MM-C guy sees it and no one else, I don't know.