The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nyel]

They're gonna announce Cata Classic... and then it'll be one of two things.

Either 10.3 and we'll get the next expansion announced on the 20th anniversary.

OR we skip 10.3 and it is a revamp that will take much longer to get it off the ground.

That's all I'm going expect out of it... or it could just be Blizzard trying to announce Arclight Rumble and be like "HEY REMEMBER THIS THING WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON?" And everyone and their mothers are going to collectively groan.

They'll definitely announce Cataclysm Classic, which is fine, the expansion is better than its reputation except for 4.1 (the troll raid rehash) and the abysmal 4.3 with Dragonsoul and LFR. They kept LFG out of Classic so I am hopeful they'll do the same with LFR as LFR is way way worse.

The polls suggested they're wanting to do some things different with Cata Classic, which is great and shows commitment. I mean they're more committed to Classic with HC and Cataclysm than they are to retail with going the same old route again and again for yet another expansion that's been abandoned by most players months ago - MAUs don't lie and Blizzard's silence regarding WoW's performance is defeaning.

It's also time for the announcement of the next retail expansion, but that would be conflicting with their schedule and the possibility of a 10.3. We've been in the same situation with Shadowlands and we know how that went, they just abandoned one major patch. But honestly, it might be the best for Dragonflight as this expansion did a lot of things right, but was ultimately a snooze fest with a very unexciting story and setting. Doubt it'll be a revamp though, people really should get that out of their minds. Simply not worth the effort.

Between an expansion launch in Q3/4 next year, I have a hard time imagining how they squeeze two content patches in just a mere year. 10.2 comes the soonest in October, even if that runs for just 4-5 months overall, there's only 7-8 months left for the final patch of the expansion which would be exceptionally short. If they cut 10.3, they could again have an August launch for the next expansion as it would fit the schedule nicely (10.2 in Oct/Nov, runs for ~ 7-8 months, maybe a small 10.2.5 to bridge the gap, pre-patch in late July / early August, expansion end of August).

By the time of the Blizzcon the merger should have eventually closed, maybe they have something planned for that as well (even if it might be less WoW and more convenience stuff for their products aka Gamepass etc).

[Raetary]

If we do get a revamp, it would be quite fitting to announce cataclysm classic alongside it.

That said.
I'd rather have a classic+ where they add brand new or a bunch of the old cut content they didn't manage to add back in the day, than a cata classic.

[rainhard]

So, I read stuff from the Illidan novel...and like...

The Azewrath stuff doesn't retcon ANYTHING in regards to the "1 Legion" stuff. Hell, if anything, the Illidan novel just helps it out.

Yeah especially the part where we fight demon illidan or the part where thassarian is legion in the war of the ancients timeline.

[Dracullus]

some examples:
1) the world is kept relevant through levelling while on retail both are an afterthought
2) there aren't 20 different iterations of the loot system while retail is still struggling with loot 20 years later
3) original core concept (faction conflict) of the game is still alive and the lore hasn't been butchered yet. On retail they're still doubling down on shadowlands. Also, the vibe of the game is way different. It's harder to get attached to characters on retail because the lore sucks
4) class design is simpler but still meaningful. retail is filled with modifiers and gimmick abilities

could continue but i hope it's enough for you to understand me

Dude, idea that devs should scrap 15 years of content/development and continue 2008 game is so ridicolous that "is he a troll" is first thing that comes to mind for most people here.

I know for you classic is probably better game with alive world, class designed "simpler but still meaningful" (whatever that means) and everything post 2010 year sucks, but you have to accept most people.. don't really share the sentiment.

And making new content for people that just want old wow is counterproductive, it's better put new things for people who enjoy new things and rehash stuff for people who enjoy playing same thing again.

[Santandame]

Honestly the "boy king" may have got kicked back to the Scarlets, as they apparently have a new heir. And the Scarlets are always patsys to a greater threat/historically have been manipulated by the Nathrezim.

Also: it would be a huge swerve if Blizzcon is Classic+ focused but I hope not.

I agree with this and was about to post something similar - if the whisper even comes about to mean anything.

We know there is Scarlet propaganda claiming they have the true born Lordaeron heir. We know that Denathrius has been referred to as the Master several times. We also know that the Scarlets have historically been a front for the Nathrezim.

[micwini]

Alliance?! Horde?!
I PRESENT TO YOU: WORLD OF WARCRAFT: <EXPANSION NAME>
I can't wait.

Someone yesterday said that it is 90 days until Blizzcon. Now that Metzen has been announced to be attending, I think it is time to prepare..... THE HYPE TRAIN

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Dude, idea that devs should scrap 15 years of content/development and continue 2008 game is so ridicolous that "is he a troll" is first thing that comes to mind for most people here.

I know for you classic is probably better game with alive world, class designed "simpler but still meaningful" (whatever that means) and everything post 2010 year sucks, but you have to accept most people.. don't really share the sentiment.

And making new content for people that just want old wow is counterproductive, it's better put new things for people who enjoy new things and rehash stuff for people who enjoy playing same thing again.

Nostalgia is incredibly blinding.

[Reive]

Dude, idea that devs should scrap 15 years of content/development and continue 2008 game is so ridicolous that "is he a troll" is first thing that comes to mind for most people here.

I know for you classic is probably better game with alive world, class designed "simpler but still meaningful" (whatever that means) and everything post 2010 year sucks, but you have to accept most people.. don't really share the sentiment.

And making new content for people that just want old wow is counterproductive, it's better put new things for people who enjoy new things and rehash stuff for people who enjoy playing same thing again.

there is no "15 years of content/development". wow has been for years a game where only the last patch matters.

"simpler but still meaningful" (whatever that means)

It means that you don't need 30 modifiers and procs for an ability to not feel like shit.

And making new content for people that just want old wow is counterproductive, it's better put new things for people who enjoy new things and rehash stuff for people who enjoy playing same thing again.

They need to make wow available to new people. Building on classic is not to bring back the old players, but to make the game fresh and get new people to play it. As it is right now, retail can only cater to its aging playerbase who is mostly playing because they have put x years of effort into it and not because they genuinely enjoy the game. New players struggle to get into wow. Retail has no clear direction of where is going. game is missing pieces, the systems are too convuluted and is behind when it comes to basic things like armor models.

[Woggmer]

They'll definitely announce Cataclysm Classic, which is fine, the expansion is better than its reputation except for 4.1 (the troll raid rehash) and the abysmal 4.3 with Dragonsoul and LFR. They kept LFG out of Classic so I am hopeful they'll do the same with LFR as LFR is way way worse.

The polls suggested they're wanting to do some things different with Cata Classic, which is great and shows commitment. I mean they're more committed to Classic with HC and Cataclysm than they are to retail with going the same old route again and again for yet another expansion that's been abandoned by most players months ago - MAUs don't lie and Blizzard's silence regarding WoW's performance is defeaning.

It's also time for the announcement of the next retail expansion, but that would be conflicting with their schedule and the possibility of a 10.3. We've been in the same situation with Shadowlands and we know how that went, they just abandoned one major patch. But honestly, it might be the best for Dragonflight as this expansion did a lot of things right, but was ultimately a snooze fest with a very unexciting story and setting. Doubt it'll be a revamp though, people really should get that out of their minds. Simply not worth the effort.

Between an expansion launch in Q3/4 next year, I have a hard time imagining how they squeeze two content patches in just a mere year. 10.2 comes the soonest in October, even if that runs for just 4-5 months overall, there's only 7-8 months left for the final patch of the expansion which would be exceptionally short. If they cut 10.3, they could again have an August launch for the next expansion as it would fit the schedule nicely (10.2 in Oct/Nov, runs for ~ 7-8 months, maybe a small 10.2.5 to bridge the gap, pre-patch in late July / early August, expansion end of August).

By the time of the Blizzcon the merger should have eventually closed, maybe they have something planned for that as well (even if it might be less WoW and more convenience stuff for their products aka Gamepass etc).

Classic is Classic... That's it and nothing more. Changing it will only split the community further on what they want and I know people will say "we should go back to the old ways of class design" like how everyone uses the same cookie-cutter talent builds to get them through each expansion. And I don't see hope in them reviving the Abyssal Maw raid because that one underwater boss in the Eternal Palace just proved that an underwater raid is a bad idea.

Making Classic the "main timeline" is an even bigger waste time and energy than a revamp, which WoW is desperately in need of. They have a bigger team now, there's been evidence of updated assets they've been making since BFA, and even Blizzard is aware of just how old the Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor are looking with age. And if they end DF on 10.2 and it ISN'T a revamp.. then DF will be the next biggest disappointment.

As for the whole GamePass stuff... I doubt that'll be something to mention at Blizzcon. Definitely in a Microsoft/Xbox Showcase but not Blizzcon.

[Nyel]

As for the whole GamePass stuff... I doubt that'll be something to mention at Blizzcon. Definitely in a Microsoft/Xbox Showcase but not Blizzcon.

By the time Blizzard is basically Microsoft. So Blizzcon is an event that's at least supervised by Microsoft and announcing something like that there is from then on the exact right place.

I'm not even talking about Classic+ by the way, just an adjusted version which is fine in my opinion. Not trimming talent trees or restricting them doesn't cost a lot of work and might help ease things out.

And Dragonflight was never meant to be one of the big mainline expansions anyway. It was an expansion to work on the fundamentals of the game and make it "modern" (modernize systems for the most part) for the upcoming expansion which indeed will be the next big mainline thing. In that regard, it succeeded. But otherwise, it feels as much filler as some other expansions did at this point (like WoD and Shadowlands) and unfortunately the gameplay loop is still the biggest problem of WoW's longevity. Hopefully that's something they'll tackle with 11.x.

New assets can mean updated zones, but an entire revamp must have a huge pay off as it requires tons of work. I just don't see that yet. Don't get me wrong, a revamp would be fantastic. But I don't know if it makes sense at this point of WoW's lifetime. The game is old. Too old, to get that kind of update and work done just for one expansion that will continue the downward trend that started right after Legion (again).

[Woggmer]

It means that you don't need 30 modifiers and procs for an ability to not feel like shit.

I saw a discussion of this on a Discord server. That without the proc system, WoW could've ended up having the same combat system as FF14 where it becomes a combo system. It would've gotten to a point where you could play certain classes and have everything macro'd to one button to win at any fight. Which is still a problem to FF14 to this day.

They need to make wow available to new people. Building on classic is not to bring back the old players, but to make the game fresh and get new people to play it. As it is right now, retail can only cater to its aging playerbase who is mostly playing because they have put x years of effort into it and not because they genuinely enjoy the game. New players struggle to get into wow. Retail has no clear direction of where is going. game is missing pieces, the systems are too convuluted and is behind when it comes to basic things like armor models.

Yeah, by doing a revamp or re-introduction and having most of the story focused in Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms. No more new continents, no more exploring other-worldly planes of existence, just a return to form. That is how you get new blood into the system, nobody knows jack-shit about what the humans, dwarves, or orcs and tauren are all fighting about. They just know Sylvanas.. and Dragons which doesn't do WoW justice anymore.

But saying that they should all play Classic is even worse, because it'll only split the community further.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I mean its always a possibility they Cut & Run, but it does not seem like the best of ideas from a PR standpoint.

Especially because it would confirm that the format is now 2 major patches only going forward as Blizzard will never correct or state anything in regards to such a subject matter as seen with the awkward nature of the current status quo where we will have to wait till the 2024 Roadmap to have it confirmed or not.

Again, moving everyone to Classic+ who want EK and Kalimdor content is probably the better option following Danusers plan for Cosmic Narrative going forward for the next few expansions.'

Especially due to how expensive EK and Kalimdor content is to create for the Retail Team.

[Dracullus]

Especially due to how expensive EK and Kalimdor content is to create for the Retail Team.

It's already pretty much confirmed there won't be Cata style revamp in 11.0. Ion told us Dragon Isles will be default experience. And revamping any part of old world as 70-80 continent will use exactly same resources as making new one.

[Woggmer]

New assets can mean updated zones, but an entire revamp must have a huge pay off as it requires tons of work. I just don't see that yet. Don't get me wrong, a revamp would be fantastic. But I don't know if it makes sense at this point of WoW's lifetime. The game is old. Too old, to get that kind of update and work done just for one expansion that will continue the downward trend that started right after Legion (again).

It's literally been more than 10 years since the events of the Cataclysm. The only zones that got an update were Darkshore and Arathi Highlands, they could've done more but it was having an adverse effect on the rest of the zones neighboring them. (I'm not sure on Darkshore, but when Arathi was updated.. the river in Hillsbrad lost all the water texture. You could still go in and you'd be swimming, but there was no water "surface".)

The issue with stuff like Cata and BFA is that they are capable of revamping old zones, but (and I cannot stress this enough) THEY NEED TO COMMIT TO IT Revamping the old zones AS new zones.. Not like with Cata where they just added 5 (technically 7 because Vashj'ir is actually 3 zones that make up one bigger zone.) or like with BFA where they only updated the zones specifically for Warfronts. (We don't need to discuss the failures of that, but there were plans for more Warfronts.)

And even if they can't do a full revamp, I wouldn't mind if it was just them adding new content and stories to the old world itself just to revitalize the old world and re-introduce people to those old zones and give a reason for people to play a race because they found them interesting, and not just because of their racial abilities that can be used for end-game content.

[Reive]

I saw a discussion of this on a Discord server. That without the proc system, WoW could've ended up having the same combat system as FF14 where it becomes a combo system. It would've gotten to a point where you could play certain classes and have everything macro'd to one button to win at any fight. Which is still a problem to FF14 to this day.

Sorry but the combat system in ffxiv and wow are like night and day. the combat in ffxiv is static and combo based while wow's is more situational. Also, i'm not suggesting to remove procs/modifiers completely, but to reduce their amount. Having abilities that can either hit like a wet noodle or delete someone from the game if the stars align is not good. We need a middle ground.

Yeah, by doing a revamp or re-introduction and having most of the story focused in Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms. No more new continents, no more exploring other-worldly planes of existence, just a return to form. That is how you get new blood into the system, nobody knows jack-shit about what the humans, dwarves, or orcs and tauren are all fighting about. They just know Sylvanas.. and Dragons which doesn't do WoW justice anymore.

But saying that they should all play Classic is even worse, because it'll only split the community further.

I mean you could do the revamp anywhere, but doing it on the current version of retail is going to take a lot more effort/money because the game has too much baggage, especially when it comes to the lore. Remember that bfa and shadowlands still exist in the game and that the faction pride/conflict doesn't really exist anymore. You revamp ek and kalimdor, and then what? You have no story to tell. We've reached the point where cosmic shit is almost the only way to make things interesting.

[Worldshaper]

This video is bloody funny for a reason.

"I'm quite certain you're very curious about the fate of Azeroth... how the saga of Warcraft is unfolding. [...] There's been widespread speculation about the nature of what's going on with Warcraft. We've seen stories about a new expansion being set in the South Seas, or being set within the Emerald Dream, new races, new race-class combos, a lot of wild, unsubstantiated lore, right? Lot of stuff!

So... BlizzCon... the wait is over. [...]

So without further ado, ladies and gentlemen, proud defenders of Azeroth, I'm very, very geeked up to debut an expansion set that I'm confident that will nothing less than earth-shattering.

An expansion set that will literally change the face of Azeroth as you know it.

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you World of Warcraft: CATACLYSM!"

How little times change.

[Revamp Man]

It's great news, Metzen should announce expac, Ion lead what's next panel.

I hope Holly Longdale won't screw up this moment, she and John Hight were terrible on everything I saw from Blizzcons/reveals. I guess she's probably for Classic stuff, which can be interesting as well. Will they just move to Cata and call it a day?

You mean the 3 second cuts in the video reveals

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

You mean the 3 second cuts in the video reveals

I am definitely happy that we are back to keynotes after 9.2/10.0 were such absolute messes.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Whining about 30 procs is a very dumb complaint as procs aren't a problem and well it depends on said proc. I just know my class's proc makes the gameplay more fun but in a dependant kinda way that I'm not a fan of but thats not always the case and just saying "FUCK IT GOING BACK TO CLASSIC TIMELINE" is wasteful. Not like the whole world is gonna go along with it to.

It's already pretty much confirmed there won't be Cata style revamp in 11.0. Ion told us Dragon Isles will be default experience. And revamping any part of old world as 70-80 continent will use exactly same resources as making new one.

Wouldn't be the first time Blizz had to fib, to not spoil the surprise. But we'll see(I don't expect a revamp).

The cosmic stuff doesn't make the story interesting,

NOT THE PROBLEM here. People don't just purely hate cosmic unless you mean this forum and its hardly represenative of all fans.

[Woggmer]

I mean you could do the revamp anywhere, but doing it on the current version of retail is going to take a lot more effort/money because the game has too much baggage, especially when it comes to the lore. Remember that bfa and shadowlands still exist in the game and that the faction pride/conflict doesn't really exist anymore. You revamp ek and kalimdor, and then what? You have no story to tell. We've reached the point where cosmic shit is almost the only way to make things interesting.

Yeah, and Talanji is still mad at the Alliance for killing King Rastakhan, and people just have to accept it and be friends because faction conflict doesn't matter anymore? BFA planted a whole bunch of seeds of potential storylines from the allied race acquisitions, down to the mission table quests where most of the "faction conflict" is actually occurring that nobody is even aware of it because they don't read the descriptions. (Like the fact that the Gilneans have take control of Fenris Isle in Silverpine or the Horde is actually using that giant goblin cannon in Azshara to retaliate against Alliance forces.) The faction pride/conflict was BFA's biggest selling point, people wanted to either fight Anduin or Sylvanas... Instead we get N'zoth being utilized in the worst possible way and killed outright.

The cosmic stuff doesn't make the story interesting, it just makes people mad because it ends uprooting a lot of pre-established lore and make things worse and less interesting. Very few people wanted the focus on cosmic stuff and community has been vocal about it ever since Shadowlands.

Make new stories, make new threats, because we're gonna run out of continents to explore and traveling to places outside of Azeroth never last long. (TBC was the only exception because they added content on Azeroth instead of keeping it contained within their expansion zones like WoD and Shadowlands).