The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[huth]

Its called false advertisement.

And big multi-billion $$$ companies are good at it.

No, it's not called false advertisement when you let your wants blind you to what's actually being said. That's on you, not Blizzard.

[Makabreska]

They have tried setting up a bunch of possible threats from Legion, BFA, and even parts of Shadowlands to give the idea that there are some things involved.

Saberon and Botani in the Barrens, Goren in Durotar, A group of radical Dark Irons intent on bringing Ragneros back, Sire Denathrius is still on the loose, The possibility that there's void ethereals hiding on Azeroth and observing us...
heck, In Cata there was even a Satyr (who was a night elf that lead Archimonde to the tree and was turned into a Satyr) that we let loose to get his help against Ragneros's forces in Hyjal. [Weirdly enough there were even TCG cards that reference him like he's supposed to be a big deal, but he's never referenced again after that quest.]

All of this are outdated, rehashed or irrelevant threats. Hardly anything to get excited about. Ragnaros again? That single satyr from tiny quest chain from 14y ago? Really?

The only interesting one would be Void Ethereals.

[Makabreska]

Also, resurrecting Ragnaros isn't impossible and could definitely happen, though it would have to occur at the Firelands or so.

Nothing is impossible, everyone can be brought back with some explanation. Doesn't mean they should. Raggy story is done, he was hard defeated in Cata and new Firelord was elected. And do we really want to fight him for the third time?

[Woggmer]

Nothing is impossible, everyone can be brought back with some explanation. Doesn't mean they should. Raggy story is done, he was hard defeated in Cata and new Firelord was elected. And do we really want to fight him for the third time?

Well that's the thing, Ragneros is done... but having a radical group of Dark Irons can lead to some interesting results, especially the fact that if literally anything bad happens to Moira's son, the entire Council of Three Hammers could get dissolved and thrown into disarray and throw the Dwarves back into another civil war.

Moira is only part of the council until her son is old enough to take the throne, but if the son gets abducted or corrupted in anyway shape or form then he along with the radical Dark Irons will have usurped the throne.

There's also the big issue that the new Firelord that the Shaman Farseer put in charge went MIA.

Edit: And I know someone might say, "But I don't want to fight a dwarf kid, especially an evil one" I never said anything about fighting him. If the radical group takes him in, then all they have to do is act as his "advisors" and use him as a puppet monarch to get what they want. We really only need to go after these radicals (or more accurately, High Justice Grimstone since he seems to be leading this whole operation).

[Skildar]

Well that's the thing, Ragneros is done... but having a radical group of Dark Irons can lead to some interesting results, especially the fact that if literally anything bad happens to Moira's son, the entire Council of Three Hammers could get dissolved and thrown into disarray and throw the Dwarves back into another civil war.

Moira is only part of the council until her son is old enough to take the throne, but if the son gets abducted or corrupted in anyway shape or form then he along with the radical Dark Irons will have usurped the throne.

There's also the big issue that the new Firelord that the Shaman Farseer put in charge went MIA.

Edit: And I know someone might say, "But I don't want to fight a dwarf kid, especially an evil one" I never said anything about fighting him. If the radical group takes him in, then all they have to do is act as his "advisors" and use him as a puppet monarch to get what they want. We really only need to go after these radicals (or more accurately, High Justice Grimstone since he seems to be leading this whole operation).

I'm more interested in having Moira's kid sit on a throne that would incite Wildhammer clans to rally against him and make new alliances.

[Gigantique]

That is a horrid excuse. And I repeat this over and over again... Alliance killed Talanji's father in BFA and she has to sit there and accept the Alliance as friends after they raided her home and killed her father?

Armistice =/= friendship.

And do keep in mind the timeskip makes the time between BfA ending, SL happening (and reports showing Talanji that Sylvanas and the Horde was definitely in the wrong) more than long enough for her lust for vengeance to cool off and her rational mind to take hold.

[Woggmer]

I'm more interested in having Moira's kid sit on a throne that would incite Wildhammer clans to rally against him and make new alliances.

That is possible, I mean he's only about... 10 (maybe 11) years old by now. He's at that age where he can be easily influenced to do something bad. At least with Anduin, he could've ended up being a bad egg if Lady Prestor (Onyxia) wanted to but with Bolvar around, it wasn't exactly possible. Here, we don't know how many of the Dark Irons are radicals that want Ragnaros back or how many agents that work for the Cult.

[Gigantique]

Yes, Nozdormu's consort would be an unreliable narrator. Hell, Nozdormu at the time was very much clouded and whatnot in terms of properly seeing through the timeways. Soridormi also confused a fractured causality with an actual "AU Illidan", which is false.

"The fact that Azewrath exists implies there's multiple legions."

No. Just means the Legion conquered that alternate universe and that AU Azeroth.

"The only thing that implies one legion is a disgraced sexual harasser dev from one stupid interview where he made it up on the spot. Nothing in game nor in any book implies that the a single legion encompasses all timelines."

Items in WoW, alongside the Illidan Novel showcase that this just isn't true. The Legion was going around, destroying and conquering every timeway that ever was.

And no, the Nether is straight up above Time, that's why things "feel" different to Alleria and Turalyon. There is no Time, so to them things feel weird. It has nothing to do with Time dilation.

Also, the going back in time stuff occurred by us going back to events that occurred in our history. How the Demons are affected here isn't fully known, but I think it works cause we were going back to events from the past and that can likely factor in for even Legion invasions I think? I mean, shit, Broxigar wasn't in the WoTA stuff til he went back in time with the time storm stuff. Now the canon states that he wounded Sargeras and whatnot. So I don't think going back to the past works the same way as traveling to alternate universes.

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That part is weird admittedly, but even if you retconned the 1 Legion stuff, it's weird so that's why I don't care for it.

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Outside of a whole novel, Steve Danuser doubling down on the whole time stuff with other Cosmic Realms like the Shadowlands, and items in game which imply otherwise of course...

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Once again, 10.1.5 doesn't retcon anything and there are many MANY things that just negate your points completely.

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The situation now is no different vs how it was back in 2014.

If things DID get retconned, then everything the last 9 years were trying to build up would have been for nothing.

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"What happens to the legion in present time then? They just exist simultaneously with their past counter parts that only exist because YOU time traveled? It makes no god damn sense."

My good sir, I present to you someone named Broxigar. He went back in time, and basically showcased that Demons can still be affected by the effects of traveling back and forward in time, without the need of any BS alternate self or anything like that.

How else did you thing Sargeras got his scar?

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Like I said, that part is a bit confusing, but overall, the Demons should still remain as 1 version of themselves all throughout

Didn't Broxigar go to Sargeras, effectively stepping outside of time to deliver the wound?

I'm thinking more that the Legion exists outside of time but whenever they enter it they're locked in as themselves there like we are. So going back in time will always have a Mannoroth fighting Thrall and Grommash even though we killed Mannoroth at a later point, they simply exist as echoes so to speak.

[Woggmer]

Armistice =/= friendship.

And do keep in mind the timeskip makes the time between BfA ending, SL happening (and reports showing Talanji that Sylvanas and the Horde was definitely in the wrong) more than long enough for her lust for vengeance to cool off and her rational mind to take hold.

I heard people reply to that quote so many times already (seriously, it's over a week old since I made that), but I'm sorry, the dialogue and the way NPCs interact off each other in DF doesn't show any sign that there's tension, they already seem like they're friends. We only get that one instance at the start in the Waking Shores where both camps are unfriendly but not hostile, until we get to the main camp.. then all that tension just instantly vanishes.

And in regards to the whole Talanji part, it isn't about the Horde being in the wrong.. The Alliance raided Dazar'alor and killed Rastakhan trying to defend his city. Even if Talanji isn't mad anymore, that it doesn't exactly mean she's gonna be quick to forgive and forget what the Alliance did.

Edit: I'm not gonna reply to that same quote again, it doesn't lead to any further discussion and we'll just keep repeating the same talking points. It's not made for this thread and I'm not gonna say anymore from there.

[Gigantique]

I heard people reply to that quote so many times already (seriously, it's over a week old since I made that), but I'm sorry, the dialogue and the way NPCs interact off each other in DF doesn't show any sign that there's tension, they already seem like they're friends. We only get that one instance at the start in the Waking Shores where both camps are unfriendly but not hostile, until we get to the main camp.. then all that tension just instantly vanishes.

And in regards to the whole Talanji part, it isn't about the Horde being in the wrong.. The Alliance raided Dazar'alor and killed Rastakhan trying to defend his city. Even if Talanji isn't mad anymore, that it doesn't exactly mean she's gonna be quick to forgive and forget what the Alliance did.

Edit: I'm not gonna reply to that same quote again, it doesn't lead to any further discussion and we'll just keep repeating the same talking points. It's not made for this thread and I'm not gonna say anymore from there.

Fair, I'm playing catch-up in the thread lmao.

On the tension bit afaik that's reasoned to be because the Horde/Alliance forces are barely present outside of a token force sworn to uphold the armistice. The vast majority are either neutral parties like Dadgar or factions within that wouldn't have a hate boner or warmongering stance like Explorer's League etc. So the Horde and Alliance at large could still have insane cold war esque tensions while the explorers and archaeologists on the dragon isles are in their own bubble of sorts.

[Ielenia]

That is a horrid excuse. And I repeat this over and over again... Alliance killed Talanji's father in BFA and she has to sit there and accept the Alliance as friends after they raided her home and killed her father?

Talanji and her father decided to harbor a faction they knew was at open war with another faction-- a war that was started by the ones they're allowing into their city-- and when said war inevitably comes to their doorstep, the king lets his pride get the better of him and gets himself killed.

Rastakhan's death has a name, and it's called "consequences of my actions".

[Makabreska]

Talanji and her father decided to harbor a faction they knew was at open war with another faction-- a war that was started by the ones they're allowing into their city-- and when said war inevitably comes to their doorstep, the king lets his pride get the better of him and gets himself killed.

Rastakhan's death has a name, and it's called "consequences of my actions".

While first part is true, I don't think it is reasonable to expect Rast to not oppose invaders that attacked the capital of his proud empire, and it is also not reasonable to expect Talanji to not harbour conflict igniting resentment toward Alliance.

What kind of king would Rast be if he just surrendered and allowed Alliance to do w/e in his city? He would loose all the respect from his daughter and people, self-respect included. Protecting your homeland as king is kinda a no-brainer.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

While first part is true, I don't think it is reasonable to expect Rast to not oppose invaders that attacked the capital of his proud empire, and it is also not reasonable to expect Talanji to not harbour conflict igniting resentment toward Alliance.

What kind of king would Rast be if he just surrendered and allowed Alliance to do w/e in his city? He would loose all the respect from his daughter and people, self-respect included. Protecting your homeland as king is kinda a no-brainer.

Ignoring him being alive to actually deal with that, he still lost all of those things due to his deal with Bwonsamdi which turned a ton of the empire against Talanji and even kicked off a second insurrection.

[Ielenia]

While first part is true, I don't think it is reasonable to expect Rast to not oppose invaders that attacked the capital of his proud empire, and it is also not reasonable to expect Talanji to not harbour conflict igniting resentment toward Alliance.

What kind of king would Rast be if he just surrendered and allowed Alliance to do w/e in his city? He would loose all the respect from his daughter and people, self-respect included.

Here's the thing, though: I'm not saying Rastakhan should've kowtowed to the Alliance and acquiesced to their demands. But like I said: his death is just a consequence of his actions: by welcoming a warring faction into his city, he welcomed said war in as well, even if he had no plans in participating in it. It's naïve at best, and idiotic at worst to expect the enemies of the Horde wouldn't come to them if the war ever turned in their favor.

And considering the Horde technically threw the first stone, by invading Stormsong valley and attacking Brennadam, gleefully slaughtering civilians, to the point of leaving their corpses impaled on walls (there's even a 'rare mob' there that enters a basement filled with civilians, and says how happy and eager they are to spill their blood), the Alliance coming to 'visit' Dazar'alor was never a question of 'if' but 'when' at that point.

[Kiivar86]

Smooth visual transition between zones is good for world coherence, but gets more dull for gameplay and recognizability. The Burning Steppes and Searing Gorge might as well be the same thing, 4.e.g. but while Vanilla had a massive landmass for its time and little experience from the devs, along with an intended naturalistic look, DF doesn't. If I'm going to be flying over these places and doing repeated content there, having them be distinct enough that I know right away if I'm one or the other via flora, general geography and color palette is key. A way to get around this are all the one-time events that keep the content itself distinct even where the zones can't manage, e.g. you can't confuse a Fyrakk assault even for a fire invasion, but it needs to go further.

You are honestly the first person I've ever seen to actually want zones to work like this. I've seen countless people express frustration and annoyance at how compartmentalized zones are and the like. Its also still incredibly easy to tell when you're in a different zone in the Dragon Isles even with them flowing together better.

What a strange issue.

[Super Dickmann]

You are honestly the first person I've ever seen to actually want zones to work like this. I've seen countless people express frustration and annoyance at how compartmentalized zones are and the like. Its also still incredibly easy to tell when you're in a different zone in the Dragon Isles even with them flowing together better.

What a strange issue.

Most people complaining about compartmentalization mean it in the Cataclysm/SL sense or even the BFA one, where zones are too divided and don't flow into each other gameplay-wise. I.e, there's an intermission between engaging with any given zone's content that treats them as separate lobbies instead of part of a connected world. I don't think there's any polity for zones to be less distinct and to connect with each other more notably. DF does the cohesion part very well, the best in a decade not counting Legion, but I'm hoping they get to more inventive zones. The DI have Vakthros, Valdrakken, Algeth'ar, the Bronze zones etc. Zaralek is if nothing else a very inventive bit of work, but there's very little that hasn't been done before.

[Murlocos]

My nitpick wish for 11.0 is that the expansion name isn't just one word again. I thought it was okay but not great with Cataclysm and Legion, where there was a little bit of punch and finality for the latter, but Shadowlands and Dragonflight are such dull names.

[micwini]

If blizzardo is indeed attending Gamescom, it would make more sense for them to announce 10.2 there instead of random blog post this week. Unless they have more stuff to show.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

My nitpick wish for 11.0 is that the expansion name isn't just one word again. I thought it was okay but not great with Cataclysm and Legion, where there was a little bit of punch and finality for the latter, but Shadowlands and Dragonflight are such dull names.

Hard to figure out considering what the setting would be about. If its about the Light all I can think is "Crusade of the Light"(God I hate what they are doing with that but I digress).

[micwini]

If the next expansion is void + backside of Azeroth, I think they could pull off Shadows of Azeroth. It refers to the void and at the backside/hiddencontinent in the same title.