The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[DenPhoenix]

36:33 - I have a kind of unpleasant feeling about this quest—I don’t like it when quests are made just for a joke, while completely ignoring the lore and all that. Like we’re sent to an Alternate Draenor to bring proof of Garrosh’s death to Gammon (god, how stupid that sounds), and supposedly we’re going back to the time when we were still on Draenor? How are they going to explain that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awl5MLaXmlY

[vindicator782]

He also wasn't a threat to Malfurion before he turned on him for the dragon soul, wasn't a threat to the mages under his command until he drained them to death, wasn't a threat to the highborune who found him making the new well until he attacked them and killed all but one and wasn't a threat to the broken until he started stealing there souls to make a bomb.

He's literally know for turning on his comrades on a dime and causing deaths, litteraly every one should be expecting him to do it again and killing there one hope to start after giving the legion a portal directly to azeroth seems like the obvious turn.

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One would hope he got a history 101 from his wife about her people which should obivously start with where the sun well came from and how there founder was the only survivor of one of Illidans many betrayals. but even if he didn't get that he should be briefed on every one who came through if hes an even decent commander.

So it's every one then. If Illidan was actually betraying them as hes done many times in the past he gets a free pass to wipe out every one before you can think mabye he's living up to the name.

Yeah you seem unwilling to look at the scenario within its actual context rather than headcanon so there's little point discussing it further

[milkmustache]

36:33 - I have a kind of unpleasant feeling about this quest—I don’t like it when quests are made just for a joke, while completely ignoring the lore and all that. Like we’re sent to an Alternate Draenor to bring proof of Garrosh’s death to Gammon (god, how stupid that sounds), and supposedly we’re going back to the time when we were still on Draenor? How are they going to explain that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awl5MLaXmlY

Oh this is remarkably bad. There's no way this makes it live.

[vindicator782]

36:33 - I have a kind of unpleasant feeling about this quest—I don’t like it when quests are made just for a joke, while completely ignoring the lore and all that. Like we’re sent to an Alternate Draenor to bring proof of Garrosh’s death to Gammon (god, how stupid that sounds), and supposedly we’re going back to the time when we were still on Draenor? How are they going to explain that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awl5MLaXmlY

I'm assuming these aren't canon because you can't get to AU draenor, and even if you could its supposed to be controlled by Yrel

[Ersula]

Oh this is remarkably bad. There's no way this makes it live.

Seems too involved to remove....but I mean 90% of anything regarding the Bronze dragons & time travel is and has been a joke so that ship has sailed.

[vindicator782]

Seems too involved to remove....but I mean 90% of anything regarding the Bronze dragons & time travel is and has been a joke so that ship has sailed.

Looking at the chat on nobbel's stream it was universally clowned on while the rest of the quests were decent - whoever wrote it clearly doesn't know how AU draenor works

I don't mind non canon silly quests but this one is just mean spirited and rather dumb - just scrap it honestly

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

Well, at least we know what lives rent free in their head. Embarassing that a fictional character gets them that worked up. I'm not even saying it from that perspective either. I just think thats' frankly really embarassing to even actually implement into the game without realizing how "selfowning" that is.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Yeah you seem unwilling to look at the scenario within its actual context rather than headcanon so there's little point discussing it further

The actual scenario is that you have a demon who’s know to betray every one he works with and has joined up to serve the legion atleast twice with a presumed third time in tbc, open a portal to Azeroth giving the leader of the legion direct access to the planet with no plan to stop him, kill the leader of the army opposing the legion who every one thought would save them which would be the absolute best betrayal and time to join up with the legion for the 4th time.

There could literally never be a more appropriate time to think he’s turned on you as he has a history of doing and think you need to stop him before he kills every one else unless he went on a villain monolog before hand.

[vindicator782]

The actual scenario is that you have a demon who’s know to betray every one he works with and has joined up to serve the legion atleast twice with a presumed third time in tbc, open a portal to Azeroth giving the leader of the legion direct access to the planet with no plan to stop him, kill the leader of the army opposing the legion who every one thought would save them which would be the absolute best betrayal and time to join up with the legion for the 4th time.

There could literally never be a more appropriate time to think he’s turned on you as he has a history of doing and think you need to stop him before he kills every one else unless he went on a villain monolog before hand.

So: Do you think it is justified to forcibly rewrite someone against their will if they are a villain?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

36:33 - I have a kind of unpleasant feeling about this quest—I don’t like it when quests are made just for a joke, while completely ignoring the lore and all that. Like we’re sent to an Alternate Draenor to bring proof of Garrosh’s death to Gammon (god, how stupid that sounds), and supposedly we’re going back to the time when we were still on Draenor? How are they going to explain that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awl5MLaXmlY

Given the numerous lore fuck ups so far I can’t say I’m surprised they’d do the same for Wod/BfA.

Though hey it looks like Yrel’s crusade worked and they saved Dranor, praise the light!

[vindicator782]

One thing we keep seeing more and more is that however their writing teams work it is very clear they don't communicate and there are people currently writing for WoW who do not know the full story of WoW - now, which a game as old and vast it would be a lot to expect someone to know everything in detail - but frankly if you are getting paid you should have a decent grasp of most things - a whole team of people like that and everything should be covered; why is there not someone who checks continuity? It would take 5 minutes of reading your own lore to know this quest is impossible lorewise

It really does scream "we just don't like garrosh and just wanna make fun of him again without it making sense" - Blizzard really hates how popular of a character he is

[Hitei]

One would hope he got a history 101 from his wife about her people which should obivously start with where the sun well came from and how there founder was the only survivor of one of Illidans many betrayals. but even if he didn't get that he should be briefed on every one who came through if hes an even decent commander..

What bizarre, extreme revisionism is this? Dath'remar wasn't some lone survivor. He was part of the Highborne that were totally spared during the initial Legion arrival and purge (which HE helped do). His group then turned against the other highborne and also still mostly made it out with the rebels.

The sunwell came from Illidan sneaking out vials and then the Night Elves confiscating them and Sunstrider stealing one.

Where exactly is this ultimate betrayal she would explain when awkwardly giving a history lesson about shit that happened 10,000 years ago with her ancient, ancient ancestors?

If Illidan was actually betraying them

There is no guessing game here, my guy. This isn't some "he said, she said" situation. Everyone was standing there in full view when she said "Hey, become the Light" and Illidan said "No, I've traded my freedom before, I'm not doing that" and Xe'ra grabbed him, went "lol, fuck you, the old you is dead, you are Light now". There is no way to re-frame the situation where Turalyon isn't just kind of an asshole for getting upset that an ally who had done nothing but save them and give them a fighting chance (and bring Xe'ra there in the first place) didn't let himself be forcibly wiped into someone else and fought back.

So it's every one then.

It was one. Xe'ra. Because no one else was the same degree as, since we now have a term, Lightblinded. But yes, if this situation had happened in an alternate universe and all of the Army of Light had run forward and started trying to kill Illidan, then yes. Turalyon would also be an asshole for joining in against the person being unilaterally attacked. I don't think it's an unreasonable (in the literal sense, he has a reason) to jump in to "defend your allies" but also that doesn't make you magically not an asshole and on the wrong side.

[Ersula]

Looking at the chat on nobbel's stream it was universally clowned on while the rest of the quests were decent - whoever wrote it clearly doesn't know how AU draenor works

I don't mind non canon silly quests but this one is just mean spirited and rather dumb - just scrap it honestly

To be fair, Doctor Who just did the same thing...inventing a time hotel that otherwise supersedes all previous time travel rules.

Also you have to remember the rule prior to DF is that the Bronze Protected one specific timeline but during DF they entered an agreement to allow other timelines to exist within certain criteria. It's part of the reason Remix canonically exists. So Nobbel isn't taking it into consideration that the "you can't go back to AU draenor" rule doesn't exist any more.

[vindicator782]

Call me crazy if I'm lucky enough to land a writing job for the biggest game on the planet, even if I didn't play the game I'd sit down and make sure I know what the fuck I'm writing for

[Lorgar Aurelian]

So: Do you think it is justified to forcibly rewrite someone against their will if they are a villain?

I mean that depends on the level of villain but ya obviously. If you could save billions upon billions but just having Sargaras eat a snickers and forcibly chill out that would be an objective good thing.

In the actual case of Illidan he really has it coming for doing the same or worse to countless others, but doing it because you have a fanfic of him shooting light beams isn’t warranted.

[vindicator782]

To be fair, Doctor Who just did the same thing...inventing a time hotel that otherwise supersedes all previous time travel rules.

Also you have to remember the rule prior to DF is that the Bronze Protected one specific timeline but during DF they entered an agreement to allow other timelines to exist within certain criteria. It's part of the reason Remix canonically exists. So Nobbel isn't taking it into consideration that the "you can't go back to AU draenor" rule doesn't exist any more.

Ah the show that has gotten increasingly worse it has just finally killed itself - lets take more notes from that

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I mean that depends on the level of villain but ya obviously. If you could save billions upon billions but just having Sargaras eat a snickers and forcibly chill out that would be an objective good thing.

In the actual case of Illidan he really has it coming for doing the same or worse to countless others, but doing it because you have a fanfic of him shooting light beams isn’t warranted.

Okay you just have a very twisted moral compass that saves a lot of time thank you

[Joshuaj]

36:33 - I have a kind of unpleasant feeling about this quest—I don’t like it when quests are made just for a joke, while completely ignoring the lore and all that. Like we’re sent to an Alternate Draenor to bring proof of Garrosh’s death to Gammon (god, how stupid that sounds), and supposedly we’re going back to the time when we were still on Draenor? How are they going to explain that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awl5MLaXmlY

Lmao wtf???

Midnight seems like a mess lore wise.

[huth]

So it's every one then. If Illidan was actually betraying them as hes done many times in the past he gets a free pass to wipe out every one before you can think mabye he's living up to the name.

That "if" is doing a whole lot of heavy lifting here. Your problem is that he wasn't and those present knew that, so your imaginary scenario is irrelevant.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

What bizarre, extreme revisionism is this?

It's the actual lore, though slight correction, Jarod was there to and also survived.

from the sundering

Spoiler: 

He undid the stopper and started to pour.

“What by the Mother Moon are you doing there?”

Illidan had been so caught up in his efforts that he had failed to notice the approach of others. He spun about, the
last vial still in his hand, to face a party of mounted figures, Jarod Shadowsong chief among them.

“Captain…” the sorcerer began.

One of the Highborne glanced past Illidan. “He’s done something to the lake! It—” The spellcaster’s expression
grew awed. “It feels like the Well—“

“Elune preserve us!” bellowed a noble next to Jarod. “He’s resurrecting it!”

The commander dismounted. “Illidan Stormrage! Cease this immediately! If not for your brother, I’d—”

“My brother…” An imperious fury arose, fueled by his nearness to the enchanted lake. Once more, the power
surged through him. He was capable of anything…“Always my precious brother…”

The others dismounted, following Jarod Shadowsong. Their wary expressions made Illidan tense. They wanted to
keep him from the lake’s power! He eyed the Highborne, who would certainly attempt to usurp it for themselves…
“No…”

One of the nobles hesitated. “By Elune! What sort of eyes does he have that glow beneath that veil?”

Illidan glared at the Highborne.

Their leader raised a hand in defense. “Look out—”

Flames erupted around the other sorcerers. They screamed.

Jarod and the nobles charged him. Illidan sneered at the paltry threat and gestured.
The ground beneath them exploded. Jarod was tossed back. The lead noble, Blackforest flew high in the air, finally
striking a tree with a resounding crack.

“You stupid fools! You—”

His feet suddenly sank into the earth. As he looked down, tree branches wrapped around his body, pinning his legs
together and his arms to his torso. Illidan tried to speak, but his mouth filled with leaves that adhered to his tongue.
The sorcerer could not even concentrate, for a buzzing echoed in his ears, as if a thousand tiny insects nestled in
them.

Gasping, Illidan slumped to his knees. Through the buzzing, he vaguely sensed someone else approaching. The
sorcerer knew without a doubt who it had to be…

“Oh, Illidan…” Malfurion’s voice cut perfectly through the buzzing. “Illidan…why?”

The druid stared at the lake, its blazing blue color a clear sign of its contamination. No one could drink from it now.

Like the Well of Eternity before it, it was now a fount of power, not life.

“Oh, Illidan…” he repeated, eyeing his bound twin.

“Dath’Remar is still alive,” reported Tyrande, kneeling beside the Highborne leader. “One more also, but the others
are dead.” She shuddered. “They were burned in their skins…”

Malfurion had intended to come alone, only the dragons and Krasus with him, but, like the druid, Tyrande had
somehow sensed that Illidan was up to something. With several of her priestesses in tow, she had ridden after the
dragons, but had arrived too late.

As had Malfurion.

“Lord Blackforest is dead. The others, I think can be saved,” announced another priestess.

“My…brother lives,” managed Maiev. She and Shandris both attended to an unconscious Jarod. He had bruises all
over his face and his armor was even more battered now. Dried blood caked several wounds already healing thanks
to the prayers of the priestesses.

Jarod’s sister rose and her countenance was one terrible to behold. She started for Illidan, at the same time drawing
her weapon.

“No, Maiev!” Tyrande commanded.

“He almost slew my brother!”

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Okay you just have a very twisted moral compass that saves a lot of time thank you

It's twisted to say over writing one person is better then letting literal billions (trillions? quadrillions? quintillions?) die?

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That "if" is doing a whole lot of heavy lifting here. Your problem is that he wasn't and those present knew that, so your imaginary scenario is irrelevant.

Turalyon literally calls him betrayer in the cinematic right after it happens, they obviously didn't know he wasn't turning on them.

[Hitei]

It's the actual lore, though slight correction, Jarod was there to and also survived.

I'm not sure this is a great argument when Sunstrider went on to openly argue that using arcane magic was their right, decided Illidan had been right, took a vial and did the exact same thing in Quel'thalas to make a new Well.

Unless Alleria is telling some very skewed, propaganda version of the story, the lesson here is not "Illidan is a bad guy", and again, I do not know why she would be talking about a specific event from 10,000 years ago that is her only even mildly relevant frame of reference for Illidan's existence, and Illidan in the situation at hand was an ally who had just saved them and turned the war in their favor, and who was being attacked for no reason by someone who Turalyon has already seen is a huge asshole who will kill or imprison people for defying bullshit absolutism.