The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Enrif]

And to think that before BfA this would have been an insane take. And then suddenly Zandalar seemed to establish that the Mount Hyjal ancients were just a tiny group compared to the seemingly vastly more numerous Troll Loa.

i'm not sure, but i think it was long before BfA that it was clear that ancients are loa, but not all loa are ancients. Some CDev interview implied it quite early.

[Sondrelk]

i'm not sure, but i think it was long before BfA that it was clear that ancients are loa, but not all loa are ancients. Some CDev interview implied it quite early.

I am pretty sure that the opposite was confirmed before BfA. All Loa were just whatever Ancients settled closest to, and communed primarily with trolls.

It's just now that we mostly see Ancients in the presence of Trolls. They all get turned into Loa. Whereas they would have used to be just Ancients.

[JDBlou]

I am pretty sure that the opposite was confirmed before BfA. All Loa were just whatever Ancients settled closest to, and communed primarily with trolls.

It's just now that we mostly see Ancients in the presence of Trolls. They all get turned into Loa. Whereas they would have used to be just Ancients.

"Loa is a Zandali term used by trolls to describe beings they revere or worship, including the Wild Gods, entities such as Kith'ix or G'huun, and even spirits like wisps."
https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Loa

So it is almost certainly the rule of thumb is: All wild gods are Loa but not all Loa are wild gods. Your position can't be true when G'huun was considered a loa by the Blood Trolls, or Kith'ix, the C'thraxxi general by the ancient Amani: "the sentient dagger Xal'atath led the troll Zan'do and his followers to the mound. Believing the creature to be a powerful loa, Zan'do and his followers performed blood rituals to awaken the creature, ending with Zan'do plunging Xal'atath into its hide. Kith'ix rumbled to life and slaughtered the trolls who'd revived it." (https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Kith%27ix)

[Enrif]

I am pretty sure that the opposite was confirmed before BfA. All Loa were just whatever Ancients settled closest to, and communed primarily with trolls.

It's just now that we mostly see Ancients in the presence of Trolls. They all get turned into Loa. Whereas they would have used to be just Ancients.

well, its not like night elves are not former trolls anyway. So, ancients and trolls are like one of the most primal connection there is on azeroth

[Dracullus]

Do we know already how farming transmog work in Midnight?

like this:
game checks if you have full mythic set -> you get all lower sets

or like this:
game gives you all lower version of item X if you have transmog from this item on lower difficulty

Hope for version #2 and it applies to weapons, otherwise to complete stuff you would have to clear lower difficulties anyway for them.

[milkmustache]

There must be a director somewhere up in the chain whose sole input is "add as much glee and wonder as you can". From the Arator writing to the voice lines, there is such an odd and inexplicable airiness to the way things are delivered. It's extremely Disney-esque.

It's a difficult thing to bring up because it's either immediately co-opted by a very vocal subsect or is assumed to come from that, but this sort of delivery is really starting to get annoying.

[Sondrelk]

Do we know already how farming transmog work in Midnight?

like this:
game checks if you have full mythic set -> you get all lower sets

or like this:
game gives you all lower version of item X if you have transmog from this item on lower difficulty

Hope for version #2 and it applies to weapons, otherwise to complete stuff you would have to clear lower difficulties anyway for them.

I am fairly confident it was confirmed that it works on a set by set basis. So once you unlock a set in the tab, it automatically unlocks all lower difficulty variants. Though even then, probably just the spec specific ones. So you will still need to farm appearances.

[micwini]

I'm not sure if you're talking about wow's voice acting or about voice acting in general. I think that wow has become more disney/pixar/cartoony sice Mop. Of course you can notice that in the MoP cinematic and pandaren, and then in Wod's race revamp, where many races became more cartoony. Warcraft always had cartoony elements (like peons) but it wasn't the overall vibe of the franchise. A good example would be to compare Vanilla gnolls vs DF gnolls.

So the same happenned with voice acting: it became less serious/metal/epic and more like the voice acting you'd find in a disney/pixar movie.

Yes specifically wow. I mean there's always been some characters that had this type of voice acting to provide comic relief, but it seems like it is used for everything now, which sucks

Isn't Suramar supposed to be referencing france under german occupation in ww2 instead of the revolution of 1789 ? That's what I also thought with the underground resistance movement and all that.

I think the hoarding of arcwine (food), using sewers as hide out, lots of french names, elite vs the people, using social influentials to overthrow the elites, etc. makes it more inline with the revolution. Altho of course it has similarities with occupation.
I didn't make the connection back then, but replaying it now during remix made it ring a bell.

[JDBlou]

I think the hoarding of arcwine (food), using sewers as hide out, lots of french names, elite vs the people, using social influentials to overthrow the elites, etc. makes it more inline with the revolution. Altho of course it has similarities with occupation.
I didn't make the connection back then, but replaying it now during remix made it ring a bell.

I do think there's broad drawing from French culture and history, but Elisande and her leadership has some striking parallels to Petain and the Vichy regime. And the paranoia surrounding our actions in Suramar, our use of subterfuge and sympathetic collaborators; undermining the regime is more in line with the French Underground the revolutionary France to my mind.

The Revolution analogy works in the symbolic sense: the oppressed rising against decadent elites, that’s a universal narrative mythos. The emotional register of Suramar’s story: secrecy, betrayal, occupation, and eventual liberation is distinctly WWII France.

Elisande's loyalists marching hand in hand with demons in the streets is a fair bit closer to a Vichy pastiche than it is to King Louis' armies.

[Rathwell]

The Amani voices aren't bad imo but some of those Belf ones are just terrible. Doesn't fit the race at all.

Very unlikely it will get changed though, not that easy to change voice lines.

Oh, I felt the other way around! The first Belf voices sounded like a Youtube parody of Blood Elves, but the rest were acceptable. Even liked the guard voice.

But the Amani? Jesus, they sound incredibly off

[Zardas]

I think the hoarding of arcwine (food), using sewers as hide out, lots of french names, elite vs the people, using social influentials to overthrow the elites, etc. makes it more inline with the revolution.

I completely forgot about this aspect of the questline. I guess I need to stop slacking in remix and start Suramar.

[GeometryWizard]

There must be a director somewhere up in the chain whose sole input is "add as much glee and wonder as you can". From the Arator writing to the voice lines, there is such an odd and inexplicable airiness to the way things are delivered. It's extremely Disney-esque.

It's a difficult thing to bring up because it's either immediately co-opted by a very vocal subsect or is assumed to come from that, but this sort of delivery is really starting to get annoying.

IMO it's the opposite of a director enforcing it. A former employee on twitter a while back talked about it and said that it's coming from the employees themselves doing what they want. Before they had directors telling them they had to make things sufficiently epic, edgy, dark, etc. to fit WoW's vibes but now they're all told they can do whatever makes them happiest which seems to be making content explicitly aimed at very young children or the kind of millennials that never matured and still exclusively watch children's cartoons and shows for entertainment. It's like the same problem Cata had and Cata questing/world design is very unpopular these days. I bet WoW books are the most complex things some of the current quest designers have read

Nothing will change unless a lot of the current creatives get replaced or they start enforcing more of a singular direction which would anger the employees

[milkmustache]

It's like the same problem Cata had and Cata questing/world design is very unpopular these days.

Nothing will change unless a lot of the current creatives get replaced or they start enforcing more of a singular direction which would anger the employees

I hadn't considered how similar it can be to Cata's approach with pop culture references, but that's a good comparison to make. I cannot see this approach ageing well because it already feels out of place.

I remember hearing about their modern philosophy being employee-forward, letting them make the world they want, and while I think that's a good idea in a vacuum, it's an odd approach to make for a larger team. Things slip through the cracks, and cohesion starts to break apart.

This things feel really stupid to complain about because they're so minimal, but for a world that a lot of us have invested a lot of time into, it's sometimes frustrating to see inconsistent approaches to the worldbuilding. I'm just personally really tired of the wide eye'd "Woooowwww!!!" cozycore approach to nearly every level of the game.

[Lady Atia]

Late to the party, but what's wrong with the voices? They sound good enough to me, although the guards sound defo better.

And I like the "look all you like, BUT DONT TOUCH" poke.

[Enrif]

Late to the party, but what's wrong with the voices? They sound good enough to me, although the guards sound defo better.

And I like the "look all you like, BUT DONT TOUCH" poke.

for me it is the pacing. It sounds very much "read text out", not actually like one would speak

[GeometryWizard]

I hadn't considered how similar it can be to Cata's approach with pop culture references, but that's a good comparison to make. I cannot see this approach ageing well because it already feels out of place.

I remember hearing about their modern philosophy being employee-forward, letting them make the world they want, and while I think that's a good idea in a vacuum, it's an odd approach to make for a larger team. Things slip through the cracks, and cohesion starts to break apart.

This things feel really stupid to complain about because they're so minimal, but for a world that a lot of us have invested a lot of time into, it's sometimes frustrating to see inconsistent approaches to the worldbuilding. I'm just personally really tired of the wide eye'd "Woooowwww!!!" cozycore approach to nearly every level of the game.

For better or for worse it's a trend hitting a lot of fantasy right now and not just WoW. The new Dragon Age last year is one of the more blatant cases in how badly they softened and sanded away all the edge in that setting while making characters with no more depth than liking coffee a lot because it makes them seem quirky. D&D has also been trying to smooth away a lot of the darker elements in their setting and their promo art in recent years is very stereotypically Tumblr-centric but at least that's something where you're making your own story anyways

I call it the Critical Roleification of fantasy or Legends and Lattes style worldbuilding. All the cozycore stuff isn't trying to sell you a fantasy world by itself, it's trying to sell you the fantasy of playing a D&D game with your friends in a comfy living room. The main focus of the writing isn't to create a believable world or characters but to make sure you feel comfy and cozy and all the characters feel semi self-aware that they're just there to be your pretend friends which is why there's so much uncanny voice acting and writing that feels like you're being lectured like a kid's show does to teach them lessons. The characters aren't addressing your player character they're addressing you the player

[milkmustache]

Late to the party, but what's wrong with the voices? They sound good enough to me, although the guards sound defo better.

And I like the "look all you like, BUT DONT TOUCH" poke.

They're like 50% on the mark. The Blood Elf male guard and the follow female civilian voice are actually good, but the other two seem far removed from how Blood Elves have always come off, IMO. They're a little too kind? Blood Elves have always had a bit of a superiority complex. They've cut off a third of the city to Alliance, while asking for their help lol. They're prideful, stubborn and frankly a bit obnoxious, and I've always loved it. These are just overtly friendly and warm.

There's totally a place for that, but it's a bit of whiplash when the text dialogue for Alliance players tells you to mind yourself and know your place while you're here, and the vocal farewell is extremely welcoming and upbeat.

The Amani also have one or two good ones, but the rest are very, I suppose, casual and normal for what is a hulking troll. "Stand stong, and endure friend," smile, wink and a nod, finger guns. Would just love to see a bit more bite to it.

[Khaza-R]

Late to the party, but what's wrong with the voices? They sound good enough to me, although the guards sound defo better.

And I like the "look all you like, BUT DONT TOUCH" poke.

The guard ones are not bad. The actual Sindorei language sounds a bit forced and more unnatural. At least compared to the OG ones.

The civilian ones sound like there's an actual audio quality issue and its wasn't processed correctly. Sounds like something out of a fan-made project to me.

[Lady Atia]

They're like 50% on the mark. The Blood Elf male guard and the follow female civilian voice are actually good, but the other two seem far removed from how Blood Elves have always come off, IMO. They're a little too kind? Blood Elves have always had a bit of a superiority complex. They've cut off a third of the city to Alliance, while asking for their help lol. They're prideful, stubborn and frankly a bit obnoxious, and I've always loved it. These are just overtly friendly and warm.

There's totally a place for that, but it's a bit of whiplash when the text dialogue for Alliance players tells you to mind yourself and know your place while you're here, and the vocal farewell is extremely welcoming and upbeat.

The Amani also have one or two good ones, but the rest are very, I suppose, casual and normal for what is a hulking troll. "Stand stong, and endure friend," smile, wink and a nod, finger guns. Would just love to see a bit more bite to it.

But you know .... not every blood elf is the same? It's a bit racist to say they should use stereotypical voices for their npc's, imo.

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The guard ones are not bad. The actual Sindorei language sounds a bit forced and more unnatural. At least compared to the OG ones.

The civilian ones sound like there's an actual audio quality issue and its wasn't processed correctly. Sounds like something out of a fan-made project to me.

Yeah, they are a bit wonky but in the end, it's not like they changed the character voices and realisticly, how often do you hear or even actually listen to the npc poke sounds? like .... like .....

[Joshuaj]

https://x.com/Portergauge/status/1986582121520242924

god, these are awful lol

why is everything in modern wow so lame?

Where's the fucking directness in his voice? Where's that tone?

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Oh I didn't listen to the female guard's voice.

Please delete Blizzard.

Come on, hire someone with just a regular voice, we don't want WoW characters to sound retarded.

There's a difference between sounding half-assed or soft, and sounding retarded. Learn the difference.