The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Magistrate]

One of my biggest problems with WoW Cosmology is that Void and Disorder are philosophically pretty much the same thing. Same goes for Light and Order

I also really dislike this. It's not even that they "share" aspects with other cosmic forces, it's that for all intents they are functionally the same. They are repeatedly used interchangeably to do the same things. Creatures from them and users of them repeatedly have the same goals and personalities. It's just an unfortunate creative puddle.

[Joshuaj]

One of my biggest problems with WoW Cosmology is that Void and Disorder are philosophically pretty much the same thing. Same goes for Light and Order

Ehhh, it's not really the same when Disorder involves lawlessness, randomness, etc, while Void is primarily about dominance and the nullification of things.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I doubt we see multi raid in live service although as always I love experimentation and to see Warcraft Team do more and creating space in the PVE Raid scene and story wise it'd be pretty incredible. Obviously, I'm under no illusion that this would be far more costly than just having a focused 1 raid per Major patch so I don't believe so.

I'm already content with the Base Midnight spicing it up with the split raids any more would be absolutely fascinating but I do not expect it.

[Magistrate]

Ehhh, it's not really the same when Disorder involves lawlessness, randomness, etc, while Void is primarily about dominance and the nullification of things.

These assessments have so many exceptions I don't even know where to begin.

[Nymrohd]

I doubt we see multi raid in live service although as always I love experimentation and to see Warcraft Team do more and creating space in the PVE Raid scene and story wise it'd be pretty incredible. Obviously, I'm under no illusion that this would be far more costly than just having a focused 1 raid per Major patch so I don't believe so.

I'm already content with the Base Midnight spicing it up with the split raids any more would be absolutely fascinating but I do not expect it.

Small 1-3 boss raids released as x.x.5 content would make sense imo. Could be using existing assets

[milkmustache]

Small 1-3 boss raids released as x.x.5 content would make sense imo. Could be using existing assets

Which Atal'utek seems to be entirely. It's a very interesting idea.

[Ersula]

Small 1-3 boss raids released as x.x.5 content would make sense imo. Could be using existing assets

The problem with that is the seasonal format. Any raids they design to be released halfway through the season are only going to have a half-life.

[Nymrohd]

The problem with that is the seasonal format. Any raids they design to be released halfway through the season are only going to have a half-life.

If they have 1-3 bosses, it is OK though? And we did have BRD

[Ersula]

If they have 1-3 bosses, it is OK though? And we did have BRD

Yeah but we're already doing that in Midnight Season 1. And we'll have those raids open the entire season. BRD isn't a good comparison because nobody treated that like a real raid. If you tried to find a pug for that you quickly regretted it.

[milkmustache]

It does seem more likely they'd include multiple raids per tier over mid season raids. How was Dawn of the Infinites and other megadungeons done in regards to the M+ pool? Were they included on the following season's?

[Nymrohd]

Yeah but we're already doing that in Midnight Season 1. And we'll have those raids open the entire season. BRD isn't a good comparison because nobody treated that like a real raid. If you tried to find a pug for that you quickly regretted it.

Didn't help that BRD Heroic was kind of hard.

[Joshuaj]

It does seem more likely they'd include multiple raids per tier over mid season raids. How was Dawn of the Infinites and other megadungeons done in regards to the M+ pool? Were they included on the following season's?

I want a 1 boss raid in TLT where we fight Sargeras. That's all I want to see.

[Lady Atia]

Yeah but we're already doing that in Midnight Season 1. And we'll have those raids open the entire season. BRD isn't a good comparison because nobody treated that like a real raid. If you tried to find a pug for that you quickly regretted it.

Also, fwif, BRD hc had 0 new rewards, not even an achievement. And hc items are crap for your mains, so people had no reasons to run the raid outside of once on normal for the achievement and quick catch up gear for new alts. Maybe timewarped badges? Back than we swam in them and couldn't spend them on much, as the timewalking vendor refreshs came after the anniversary.

Not sure if "hc only guilds" did it as part of their weekly routine though? At the end of the day, hopefully Blizzard learned that a difficulty needs good cosmetic rewards, otherwise no one cares for it. People don't run harder difficulties "because they like it harder", but for unique stuff.

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Didn't help that BRD Heroic was kind of hard.

Yeah and as I said, you actually got nothing out of it besides crap gear. No clue why they didn't atleast add an achievement for hc that gives a mount or something.

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I want a 1 boss raid in TLT where we fight Sargeras. That's all I want to see.

You mean, 1 boss with 4-5 encounters, like Deathwing or N'Zoth but on crack?

Otherwise it would be a waste to give Sargeras a raid where you are done in like 15 minutes lol.

[milkmustache]

I want a 1 boss raid in TLT where we fight Sargeras. That's all I want to see.

I'm still sort of banking on Sargeras being an ally of convenience. It would make sense to wrap up all of the original Warcraft story in a giant bow to have us fight him though.

I wonder if a one boss raid for him would work though? I love the idea, picturing fights like Onyxia, but Sargeras would be the massive epic conclusion. I'm worried it'd feel a little stunted by running somewhere, killing a few NPCs and then hitting Sargeras of all people.

But it could always be done properly. God, I hope they use the sword as a prop in an epic way.

[Joshuaj]

I'm still sort of banking on Sargeras being an ally of convenience. It would make sense to wrap up all of the original Warcraft story in a giant bow to have us fight him though.

I wonder if a one boss raid for him would work though? I love the idea, picturing fights like Onyxia, but Sargeras would be the massive epic conclusion. I'm worried it'd feel a little stunted by running somewhere, killing a few NPCs and then hitting Sargeras of all people.

But it could always be done properly. God, I hope they use the sword as a prop in an epic way.

I always assumed Dimensius was sort of a test to see if they could do something like a Sargeras fight properly. And, given the reception of the fight, I think the test worked out perfectly.

[Nymrohd]

I'm still sort of banking on Sargeras being an ally of convenience. It would make sense to wrap up all of the original Warcraft story in a giant bow to have us fight him though.

I wonder if a one boss raid for him would work though? I love the idea, picturing fights like Onyxia, but Sargeras would be the massive epic conclusion. I'm worried it'd feel a little stunted by running somewhere, killing a few NPCs and then hitting Sargeras of all people.

But it could always be done properly. God, I hope they use the sword as a prop in an epic way.

I think Aman'thul releasing Sargeras against us or against the other Titans would work. That said I hope Sargeras survives TLT so he can go back to being the final threat of Warcraft.

[milkmustache]

I always assumed Dimensius was sort of a test to see if they could do something like a Sargeras fight properly. And, given the reception of the fight, I think the test worked out perfectly.

You're so right. Replacing the Dimensius P2 with us battling up the sword or something would be sick.

I think Aman'thul releasing Sargeras against us or against the other Titans would work. That said I hope Sargeras survives TLT so he can go back to being the final threat of Warcraft.

I really don't know how I feel about Sargeras surviving or not. I agree with you, but I also think it'd be massive to have him die.

That said, I hope most of the Titans survive and are kinda made by us to fuck off forever and they become sort of C-plot adversaries.

[Nymrohd]

I really don't know how I feel about Sargeras surviving or not. I agree with you, but I also think it'd be massive to have him die.

That said, I hope most of the Titans survive and are kinda made by us to fuck off forever and they become sort of C-plot adversaries.

For me ideally
2-3 Titans die; Iridikron should kill either Khaz'goroth or Golganneth and we should kill Aman'thul
at least one Order-aligned Titan survives, possibly Norgannon; he can be a future antagonist representing Order and ends up the eponymous Last Titan
Sargeras survives with the knowledge that his crusade is pointless since the Void lost. What he does next is unknown
Eonar and Aggramar survive but significantly weakened/no longer as Titans, maintain a relation with Life and Light respectively

[Darkarath]

My hope is that Blizzard kills all the Titans, including Azeroth. At the very least kill all the Titans and let Azeroth slumber for thousands of years after a grand sacrifice or whatever so that we don't have to worry about her anymore.

I'm mildly optimistic because it seems that they are ending the main baddies of each Cosmic Force:

- The Jailer is gone (Death).
- X'era is gone (Light).
- Sargeras will most likely be killed in TLT (Fel).
- The Titans will most likley be killed in TLT (Arcane).
- Dimensius is gone and Xal'athat will be gone in one way or another (Void).
- Even the First Ones are just a legend now.

Only Life remains, which they have been building for a while, but we don't really know much about it. It might be the only Cosmic Force that survives the WSS. Obviously all Cosmic Forces will survive, but most likely they won't survive as they are now, meaning, as world-ending threats. For example, the Arathi are there and sooner or later will be a part of the story, same with Yrel, but they are mortal beings like us, not Gods or Pantheons or any other weird thing.

Really, really hoping for a soft reset after TLT with a decent enough time-skip and a completely downgrade of ours powers with whatever justification they come with.

Oh, and I hope that Blizzard doesn't try to redeem Sargeras or Xal'athat. These two are fucking evil no matter what made them do all the shit that they have done. They have to die.

[Joshuaj]

My hope is that Blizzard kills all the Titans, including Azeroth. At the very least kill all the Titans and let Azeroth slumber for thousands of years after a grand sacrifice or whatever so that we don't have to worry about her anymore.

I'm mildly optimistic because it seems that they are ending the main baddies of each Cosmic Force:

- The Jailer is gone (Death).
- X'era is gone (Light).
- Sargeras will most likely be killed in TLT (Fel).
- The Titans will most likley be killed in TLT (Arcane).
- Dimensius is gone and Xal'athat will be gone in one way or another (Void).
- Even the First Ones are just a legend now.

Only Life remains, which they have been building for a while, but we don't really know much about it. It might be the only Cosmic Force that survives the WSS. Obviously all Cosmic Forces will survive, but most likely they won't survive as they are now, meaning, as world-ending threats. For example, the Arathi are there and sooner or later will be a part of the story, same with Yrel, but they are mortal beings like us, not Gods or Pantheons or any other weird thing.

Really, really hoping for a soft reset after TLT with a decent enough time-skip and a completely downgrade of ours powers with whatever justification they come with.

Oh, and I hope that Blizzard doesn't try to redeem Sargeras or Xal'athat. These two are fucking evil no matter what made them do all the shit that they have done. They have to die.

"Even the First Ones are just a legend now"

They kinda always were tbh, even in the canon. Only the Pantheons seem to have properly known them in some capacity.