1. #12181
    Quote Originally Posted by Well Done Steak View Post
    Yeah, novels and comic are cannon.

    Steve's dirty mouth in an interview isn't cannon unless it is supported in a written medium or in-game.
    It's canon, but it doesn't matter until it appears in any WoW media, which it hasn't and probably never will.

    It didn't appear or get mentioned in Sylvanas, the one time it would really matter, and in fact it kind of hints that there are multiple Jailers or that there are multiple timelines: Zovaal knows Sargeras will hit Azeroth with Gorribal.

    How would he know that without watching another timeline? Unless he told Sargeras/told Mal'ganis to tell Sargeras to do that, but I highly doubt that.
    Last edited by Cheezits; 2023-08-17 at 08:31 PM.

  2. #12182
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    It's canon, but it doesn't matter until it appears in any WoW media, which it hasn't and probably never will.

    It didn't appear or get mentioned in Sylvanas, the one time it would really matter, and in fact it kind of hints that there are multiple Jailers or that there are multiple timelines: Zovaal knows Sargeras will hit Azeroth with Gorribal.

    How would he know that without watching another timeline? Unless he told Sargeras/told Mal'ganis to tell Sargeras to do that, but I highly doubt that.
    If it doesn't matter then it's practically not cannon. So it's not cannon.

    He probably knows because the dreadlords know.

  3. #12183
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    One Legion across infinite multiverse means we would have never won against them. Every defender on Azeroth would need to cut down literal infinite demons to win. It is logistically impossible to win against the Legion in such scenario.
    Actually it's the opposite. I think you're confused as to what that means. It means there is only 1 Legion and 1 of every demon in it whereas every timeline can have every defender. They could never win if there's 1 legion across all. Literally many Azeroths able to unite against them. The bigger problem is why didn't they? My best assumption is that this universe does in fact function on the limited realities rather than infinite like has been suggested to where not EVERY possibility can be a new reality. Things regarding time travel are always dicey when viewed from a scientific or logical perspective(like how changing the past is impossible as in traveling to the past to change it would make you traveling to the past not necessary which would make it not happen thus back to square one).

  4. #12184
    Time loses its meaning in the shadowlands and all souls accross infinity of universes are grappled to their core souls whatever are good lore ideas that are just not implemented in wow. They probably should have, but are not... even if developers say that's how it works, it doesn't from what the game shows you.

    For time to lose all its meaning then the shadowlands would never ever change. Or then they meant there is a different flow of time that is outside of the one we know and it either enables character to time jump by travelling in the shadowlands or just experience years in the shadowlands in an instant in the reality.

    The rope analogy loses any meaning if the shadowlands do not exist after the end of times. I would have appreciated this version a lot more. The handling of time would have been way more interesting when some characters are allowed to go back to the reality (therefore in the past) temporarily in order to protect the shadowlands as Maldraxxus does.

  5. #12185
    Quote Originally Posted by Well Done Steak View Post

    He probably knows because the dreadlords know.
    I guess Sargeras could've told his top brass that he was going to kill Azeroth as a contingency plan, but something about the idea sounds silly.

  6. #12186
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    Places can change and whatnot, or things can be added. Doesn't mean it's related to time.
    Time enables change

  7. #12187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    I guess Sargeras could've told his top brass that he was going to kill Azeroth as a contingency plan, but something about the idea sounds silly.
    Sounds unlikely(We're really off the ramp here) unless his(Zovaal) dreadlords knew Sargeras would try that. Personally I'd prefer Zovaal not anticipating Sargeras trying to kill Azeroth but it did work in his favor. Thats speculative though.
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  8. #12188
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    All of this just sounds like copium dude...

    [
    It's not copium , it's what we actually see vs what we're told...

  9. #12189
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Sounds unlikely(We're really off the ramp here) unless his(Zovaal) dreadlords knew Sargeras would try that. Personally I'd prefer Zovaal not anticipating Sargeras trying to kill Azeroth but it did work in his favor. Thats speculative though.
    I don't remember exactly how it's worded, but one of the ways Zovaal tricks Sylvanas is by accurately predicting that Sargeras will stab Azeroth.

    I'm of the mind that the majority of the Dreadlords were loyal to Denny, and by accessory Zovaal (with true loyalty to Denny, which we will see moving forward), but that still feels like hard info to come across.

  10. #12190
    Right, let’s get back on 10.0/11.0 speculation.

    The 10.2 zone. Which do we see as the most likely?

    A. Emerald Dream as a zone. One large zone akin to Zereth Mortis, Nazjatar etc.
    B. Emerald Dream mega zone with various sub zones. Similar to Argus.
    C. A new zone off the coast of Ohnara Plains. World Tree as an entire zone with ED as a raid.
    D. New zone off the coast of Ohnara Plains. World Tree is on the zone but isn’t the zone itself. Emerald Dream as a raid.
    E. C or D but without Emerald Dream at all in any form. Raid is defence of the world tree.
    Last edited by Santandame; 2023-08-17 at 09:19 PM.

  11. #12191
    Heavy hint at the end of the article for an Archeology revamp IMO. Excited for 10.2 !!

    https://www.wowhead.com/es/news/unra...st-31st-334610
    Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive.


  12. #12192
    Quote Originally Posted by Santandame View Post
    Right, let’s get back on 10.0/11.0 speculation.

    The 10.2 zone. Which do we see as the most likely?

    A. Emerald Dream as a zone. One large zone akin to Zereth Mortis, Nazjatar etc.
    B. Emerald Dream mega zone with various sub zones. Similar to Argus.
    C. A new zone off the coast of Ohnara Plains. World Tree as an entire zone with ED as a raid.
    D. New zone off the coast of Ohnara Plains. World Tree is on the zone but isn’t the zone itself. Emerald Dream as a raid.
    E. C or D but without Emerald Dream at all in any form. Raid is defence of the world tree.
    I feel the most likely is either: A. Content in western Ohn'ahra with zone in the dream, or B. Portal to the Dream as one large zone.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkarath View Post
    Heavy hint at the end of the article for an Archeology revamp IMO. Excited for 10.2 !!

    https://www.wowhead.com/es/news/unra...st-31st-334610
    From the sounds of it I would be down with the occasional dose of archaeology funtimes in old zones.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  13. #12193
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkarath View Post
    Heavy hint at the end of the article for an Archeology revamp IMO. Excited for 10.2 !!

    https://www.wowhead.com/es/news/unra...st-31st-334610
    I didn't get that idea. It just sounds like this event is a big puzzle like Hivemind/Waist of Time, but this time it will be a social media thing.

    The end just means you can still do the puzzle after the event.

  14. #12194
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    I didn't get that idea. It just sounds like this event is a big puzzle like Hivemind/Waist of Time, but this time it will be a social media thing.

    The end just means you can still do the puzzle after the event.
    I understood the same thing, it doesn't seem archeology related imo

  15. #12195
    The new dog model looks really nice as a mob to sprinkle in a revamp, unless Avaloren is covered in dogs. We never really got a regular dog model, just the hounds from Gilneas.
    Last edited by Cheezits; 2023-08-17 at 09:43 PM.

  16. #12196
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    I didn't get that idea. It just sounds like this event is a big puzzle like Hivemind/Waist of Time, but this time it will be a social media thing.

    The end just means you can still do the puzzle after the event.
    I suppose it's the logical solution to the secrets we used to get. Rather than continually escalating the secrets they make them more transparent and more of a gameplay feature for the general playerbase to enjoy.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    The new dog model looks really nice as a mob to sprinkle in a revamp, unless Avaloren is covered in dogs. We never really got a regular dog model, just the hounds from Gilneas.
    We've had several dog models, they are just well hidden in various Battle Pet vendors.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Fahrad Wagner View Post
    I understood the same thing, it doesn't seem archeology related imo
    Suppose it depends on how you look at it. It's definitely more secret related, but future ones might be very heavily Archaeology themed.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  17. #12197
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    If there is one Legion across infinite number of timelines, it would make the Legion infinitely large. They can always pull more demons in from more timelines.
    No, it wouldn't. It's been created by a single entity and mainly grows through recruitment. That makes it's growth finite and thus the Legion as a whole, too.

    Yes, they can pull more demons... but they can only pull a finite number.

  18. #12198
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    Time results in a lot of cause and effect stuff, sure. But change isn't a time-only factor.
    change requires a before and an after. Without time there isn't these two. If you have a counter example I'm very interested

  19. #12199
    Quote Originally Posted by Skildar View Post
    Time loses its meaning in the shadowlands and all souls accross infinity of universes are grappled to their core souls whatever are good lore ideas that are just not implemented in wow. They probably should have, but are not... even if developers say that's how it works, it doesn't from what the game shows you.
    Actually, that's a bad idea that creates more problems than it solves (in no small part because it solves absolutely nothing). It's already established that the Shadowlands are infinite. They could just have each copy be seperate and independent and it would cause no issue at all, while any questions about why we don't encounter them easily being answerable as them just being somewhere else. Tying them all together when they can be wildly different entities just creates a confusing mess while providing no actual benefits.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    Time results in a lot of cause and effect stuff, sure. But change isn't a time-only factor.
    Not in real world terms, because what you're saying there is essentially that time results in time and that time isn't a time-only factor.

    Though i think what they meant is that only the material plane (that they should really give a name to...) has timelines, while the other realms are all a single causal chain of events.

  20. #12200
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    I think the point was more that it was better (at least in terms of outright new content) than basically every X.1 patch in the game's history. It's just that we expect so much from a patch these days that expectations are stacked against any release.

    Ignoring raid tier releases:

    2.1 was a some new dailies for existing daily hubs and a new arena.
    3.1 was a new daily hub in an existing zone.
    4.1 was two heroic revamps of old dungeons
    5.1 was a new daily hub in an existing zone and brawler's guild
    We don't talk about 6.1
    7.1 was a megadungeon, a mini-raid and the continuation of a campaign
    8.1 was a warfront, the continuation of a campaign, assaults and heritage armor quests
    9.1 was a megadungeon, a new region for an existing zone and the continuation of a campaign

    10.1 was an entirely new zone, assaults, the continuation of a campaign

    It's not really weak at all, it's probably the first or second strongest X.1 patch we've ever had, especially when you factor in that during its "segment" of the expansion (10.0.5, 10.0.7, 10.1.5 and 10.1.7), we also got: new daily hub in an existing region, Zskera vaults, new class combinations, trading post, a megadungeon, four heritage armor quests, two other sets of open world assault-y events (dreamsurges and time rifts), and like three or four different updates to campaigns.

    I think pretty objectively Dragonflight has had more content pre X.2 than any other expansion to date. People are just so used to getting patch content at this point that they're able to take all that as "it didn't even add that much" and will unironically convince themselves that some earlier expansion that only added 20 dailies, or a single megadungeon prior to X.2 was somehow a better amount of content output.
    Not to mention a new spec for the new hero class and a special legendary weapon for said class.

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