The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Khaza-R]

Also, raids and dungeons are the two things that matter.

You speak for yourself, not me.

Open World "content" is dead after 2 weeks anyways.

Rather irrelevant as to its quality. But even if we are going to go there, at least I could see myself going back to Undermine to complete some of the achievements. I can't say the same about K'aresh.

[Darkarath]

IMO TWW has been a pretty solid expansion. Just for introducing Delves in the game it would be one of the top expansions for me. Undermine is the best part of TWW, and by a long shot, the best x.1 patch in WoW's history, in the same way that 8.2 is the best x.2 patch of the game by miles.

Yeah, some hero talent might ruin a spec for the occasional player. So might some artifact weapon ability in Legion, or any of the 150 times they've changed how eclipses work for balance, or the removal of shadow orbs, or the introduction of holy power or some tier set in a given expansion forcing players to go with the fire build for enhance, or number tuning in an expansion making sindragosa's dominant, or literally any even minor rework of any spec.

Hero talents aren't special. They are just the branding for TWW's version of adding new spells/changing specs a bit. Much like artifact weapons were just a fancy package for Legion's version of changing classes and adding new spells. If hero talents didn't exist at all, we still would have gotten a whole bunch of mechanical changes or most specs and larger reworks for various specs and it could have just as easily added something like Aldrachi just in the form of a new ability or high tuned talent which you would still hate. Or maybe it wouldn't have changed at all and someone else who really likes Aldrachi now would have continued finding the spec unplayable.

This is just something that happens every expansion. And every expansion some people are going to be put out and some people get a bunch of fun new options and most players just take the changes as they are and keep playing their class.

Agreed.

Although I would say that Hero Talents are worse than the usual adjustments because they literally destroy your spec, forcing you to play a sub-spec that has a certain theme that you might despise or that it doesn't fit your race at all, and these things matter a lot IMO.

I hate that Blizzard always needs to introduce some kind of new shit for our classes. DF talents were actually nice, and while eventually they would need to revamp the system, I think that if they would just add different Apex Talents every expansion, the system could go on for longer than usual.

Also, just give us visual cosmetic options instead of talents.

[3vyan]

I can't say I have a super easy way to check that, maybe see if there are any .bone files for those models, provided you are talking about the Haranir.

I do!
I'm not sure how to look for that but thanks for the info

[Makorus]

IMO TWW has been a pretty solid expansion. Just for introducing Delves in the game it would be one of the top expansions for me. Undermine is the best part of TWW, and by a long shot, the best x.1 patch in WoW's history, in the same way that 8.2 is the best x.2 patch of the game by miles.



Agreed.

Although I would say that Hero Talents are worse than the usual adjustments because they literally destroy your spec, forcing you to play a sub-spec that has a certain theme that you might despise or that it doesn't fit your race at all, and these things matter a lot IMO.

I hate that Blizzard always needs to introduce some kind of new shit for our classes. DF talents were actually nice, and while eventually they would need to revamp the system, I think that if they would just add different Apex Talents every expansion, the system could go on for longer than usual.

Also, just give us visual cosmetic options instead of talents.

I always think the whole "pidgeonholed into an archetype" thing is such a silly argument for 99% of classes.

The only spec that severely gets fucked over is MM Hunter.
Everything else has a "basic" spec-plus Hero Talent. Don't like being a Mountain Thane? Go Colossus. Go Slayer. They are as milquetoast and inoffensive as they can be. Don't want to be a Dark Ranger BM Hunter? Go Packleader.

And let's not pretend that the problem wouldn't exist with just normal talents. Case in point: Melee/Semi Range Devourer.

[Scyth]

No it's defo not lol. You like it the most, but you can't speak for everyone. In my guild literally no one liked it thanks to the shitty car. The goblin theme is also something that most people either hate or like.

The raid also was ok, but defo not better than Palace (Queen Mythic was thousand times better than lame Gally) or the Manaforge (Dimensius alone is miles ahead any of the Undermine bosses, and the other bosses are also super fun besides maybe the one with the walls).

I mean, even for just open world stuff Karesh was MILES ahead of Undermine. No one cares for claustrophobic goblin trash.

It's funny how at the beginning of your post you say the other poster can't speak for everyone but then you say this lol

It's all subjective anyway, but Undermine was overwhelmingly positive. K'aresh had a lot of hype but under delivered massively. I'm fairly confident Undermine will be regarded as the best patch of TWW.

[Jaggler]

Undermine was really a stellar patch. It was thematically on point, the music was one of the best and for me it really showed that blizz can create a compelling setting/story without going all cosmic. Of course there are still points to be improved upon but i would give it a 8.5/10

[Makorus]

Undermine, despite the Cartel system being atrocious at launch, still was miles better than Ka'resh simply because you got what you expected.

Karesh was one of the biggest waste of potentials in a long time, and what we got wasn't even that good. I don't know how you can say that open-world-wise, Ka'resh was better, when all it had was warrants, which people did a whole 6 times for the achievements, and Phaseshifting, which just meant you couldn't fly.

On that note, the Undermine Soundtrack actually got nominated for the Hollywood Music in Media Awards. (Granted, I do think the Karesh Soundtrack is better than Undermine. Adam Burgess really is the best WoW composer in a long, long time.).



No way it will win when you have KPop Demon Hunters in the running, but still.

[Khaza-R]

Undermine, despite the Cartel system being atrocious at launch, still was miles better than Ka'resh simply because you got what you expected.

Karesh was one of the biggest waste of potentials in a long time, and what we got wasn't even that good. I don't know how you can say that open-world-wise, Ka'resh was better, when all it had was warrants, which people did a whole 6 times for the achievements, and Phaseshifting, which just meant you couldn't fly.

On that note, the Undermine Soundtrack actually got nominated for the Hollywood Music in Media Awards. (Granted, I do think the Karesh Soundtrack is better than Undermine. Adam Burgess really is the best WoW composer in a long, long time.).



No way it will win when you have KPop Demon Hunters in the running, but still.

I think its awesome either way. The heavy jazz theme was a bit "risky" but it really paid off imo and glad they're getting rewarded for trying something new and different.

[Elronas16]

I don't particularity like the goblin theme and I didn't like the car either, but I think Undermine was a spectacular addition to the game - content wise. Very well executed and pretty much the saving grace of otherwise the worst expansion to date.

My only gripe was is that it's not directly connected to Kezan, which would have been a delicious world-building detail, and that the writing softened the goblin edginess but that's modern writing for you.

We needed more of that. Focus on OG races that have not had much development in a while instead of endlessly bloating the game with even more tired 'allied races that get left in the dust after one patch. Though Midnight is showing us that that can go pretty bad as well depending on which team works on what.

[Ersula]

I mean, even for just open world stuff Karesh was MILES ahead of Undermine. No one cares for claustrophobic goblin trash.

You are alone in this feeling. The general consensus when the patches first came out were night & day. At least when it comes to activities in the zone, Undermine good. K'aresh bad. Phase Diving is a big nothing that needed a lot more work to actually be interesting.

[Sondrelk]

I can easily see K'aresh being more popular on the basis that nobody hates open world content like WoW players. So K'aresh, which was barren and lacking in open world content would be far more appealing than Undermine, which has loads of stuff to do, and which really has fun with all the ways to design an open world zone.

- - - Updated - - -

It's clear that az kahet was suposed to be a suramar style city with stealth, guards and stuff, but it was abandoned as a concept when they decided to let you fly. You can still get many items and mini quests about rumors and stuff for it, but it's all quite useless with flying.

I was really hoping that the Prey system would be a soft reintroduction of no flying. Give a real incentive to keep building on open world features like the Maldraxxus necropolis air drop mechanic. Or Suramar style stealth.

Let the players who hate the open world stick to normal world tier. And let the players who actually want open world content get a version that really appeals to them.

[rainhard]

Yeah Undermine felt like a completed zone compared to K'aresh which was lacking even battle pets, gathering node breaking animations and a main selling point of it being whatever the fuck ecological succession was.

Flying around it was cool tho, missed the space rock theme of wow and i think it was designed nicely for dragonriding.

[Santandame]

You speak for yourself, not me.



Rather irrelevant as to its quality. But even if we are going to go there, at least I could see myself going back to Undermine to complete some of the achievements. I can't say the same about K'aresh.

K’aresh was fucking dreadful. There’s no defending it. Quite possibly the worst zone they’ve ever added to the game since MoP at the very least.

People could argue that The Maw is right there but I’d argue that at least The Maw had an interesting mechanics to it. Phase Diving might as well not exist, it’s just a completely pointless feature and the Eco Dome quests are some of the most monotonous ever added to the game.

Fuck K’aresh.

[Vakir]

Yeah, K'aresh being better than Undermine is a wildly unpopular opinion.

Undermine was the better patch by far.

[Ersula]

Yeah, K'aresh being better than Undermine is a wildly unpopular opinion.

Undermine was the better patch by far.

I mean I did like the Karesh patch better overall, but the open world content? Absolutely not. Undermine was great.

[rainhard]

Undermine, despite the Cartel system being atrocious at launch, still was miles better than Ka'resh simply because you got what you expected.

Karesh was one of the biggest waste of potentials in a long time, and what we got wasn't even that good. I don't know how you can say that open-world-wise, Ka'resh was better, when all it had was warrants, which people did a whole 6 times for the achievements, and Phaseshifting, which just meant you couldn't fly.

On that note, the Undermine Soundtrack actually got nominated for the Hollywood Music in Media Awards. (Granted, I do think the Karesh Soundtrack is better than Undermine. Adam Burgess really is the best WoW composer in a long, long time.).



No way it will win when you have KPop Demon Hunters in the running, but still.

Oh and i just checked on youtube compared to all other patch music videos Undermine got the most viewers by far at 128k, compared to a more tradiotional wow music patch, 11.2 music being at 38k.

You know from that alone how much it stands out.

[Nymrohd]

K'aresh was so bad they adjusted sharding at least twice so it would not feel completely empty

[Hearthfinder]

Undernine: *Has jazz and clicky things*

Players: "Oh my god, this is so innovative 10/10 patch."

Meanwhile I'm just sitting over here thinking about days of yore when we had patches like Isle of Thunder and Nazjatar.

[rainhard]

Undernine: *Has jazz and clicky things*

Players: "Oh my god, this is so innovative 10/10 patch."

Meanwhile I'm just sitting over here thinking about days of yore when we had patches like Isle of Thunder and Nazjatar.

Although BfA was a controversial expansion, 8.2 was one of the biggest patches they ever added, and for me one of the best with nazjatar and mechagone and essences.

It even had a living world pvp scene!

[milkmustache]

Undernine: *Has jazz and clicky things*

Players: "Oh my god, this is so innovative 10/10 patch."

Meanwhile I'm just sitting over here thinking about days of yore when we had patches like Isle of Thunder and Nazjatar.

I... what? Apples to oranges. Put down the nostalgia hookah pipe and let some people celebrate a decent recognition for Undermine.