The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Lady Atia]

I mean I did like the Karesh patch better overall, but the open world content? Absolutely not. Undermine was great.

Tbf, Ka'resh was chill, you could fly for most content and phase diving was cool as soon as you could mount (where is the no flying crew?). Meanwhile for Undermine, you had the abyssal car that led to motion sickness (something they managed to fix with dynamic flying thanks to the options), boring "jobs" and what, trash shoveling? Atleast Ka'resh had a few rare mobs that could drop mounts again and they were up 100% of the time when I searched for them. But than again, world "content" isn't meant to be the bread and butter of the game haha.

[Kiivar86]

Undermine made me, a goblin hater, enjoy himself.

Still not a big fan of them but I enjoyed my time there, and once I got used to the car's mechanics, I highly enjoyed that too (for the most part, still annoying to boost only to misjudge and hit something, then bounce off like it was a rubber ball).

[Lady Atia]

Undernine: *Has jazz and clicky things*

Players: "Oh my god, this is so innovative 10/10 patch."

Meanwhile I'm just sitting over here thinking about days of yore when we had patches like Isle of Thunder and Nazjatar.

Yeah. While I'm not a fan of the looks of Nazjatar (would rather have an expansion about it, and if it's just a single zone I would rather take the eternal palace as a zone instead of ugly ruins ...), gameplay wise it was top notch, same as Mechagon.

Tbf, Emerald Dream was prolly the last "good" patch zone we got (wasn't a fan of Zaralek Caverns either but the raid was good).

[Khaza-R]

Undernine: *Has jazz and clicky things*

Players: "Oh my god, this is so innovative 10/10 patch."

Meanwhile I'm just sitting over here thinking about days of yore when we had patches like Isle of Thunder and Nazjatar.

Are you talking gameplay, music, or design? They're all very different things.

Undermine shined because the level of detail they added to the zone. I haven't roamed around an entire zone before just to check out small details since BfA. That is the type of design they strive for in the game imo.

Ironically, since you bring up Najzatar a lot of people hated that zone because they felt it sort of skipped over actually giving us a proper naga city and instead just gave us some ruins. It created a lot of dissonance between expectations and delivery just like K'aresh. The difference is that Nazjatar despite deviating from expectations was still fun and a beautiful zone. While K'aresh was lackluster in everyway but the skybox.

[Lady Atia]

Are you talking gameplay, music, or design? They're all very different things.

Undermine shined because the level of detail they added to the zone. I haven't roamed around an entire zone before just to check out small details since BfA. That is the type of design they strive for in the game imo.

Ironically, since you bring up Najzatar a lot of people hated that zone because they felt it sort of skipped over actually giving us a proper naga city and instead just gave us some ruins. It created a lot of dissonance between expectations and delivery just like K'aresh. The difference is that Nazjatar despite deviating from expectations was still fun and a beautiful zone. While K'aresh was lackluster in everyway but the skybox.

Well tbf, Ka'resh was also a last minute change since they moved Rootlands to Midnight.

And someone complained about the pet battles (or the lack off) there - that wasn't really the fault of Ka'resh per sé, they simply abandoned pet battles with that patch as we saw when the alpha released sooo ..... yeah. Totally a lack of communications on Blizzards part though.

The design of Undermine was cool, I will give you that. But the GAMEPLAY was bullshit (again, the terrible car among other boring things that just took ages to complete ...).

But to be fair, I prolly would have liked it a lot more if they a) had it connected to the above ground Kezan and b) just enabled flying with the x.x.7 patch. The rep buff event atleast helped making the grind abit more bearable though.

[Makorus]

Undernine: *Has jazz and clicky things*

Players: "Oh my god, this is so innovative 10/10 patch."

Meanwhile I'm just sitting over here thinking about days of yore when we had patches like Isle of Thunder and Nazjatar.

Nazjatar has the same problem as Karesh does where it's completely wasted potential, and that alone brings it down so many points.

- - - Updated - - -

Well tbf, Ka'resh was also a last minute change since they moved Rootlands to Midnight.

And someone complained about the pet battles (or the lack off) there - that wasn't really the fault of Ka'resh per sé, they simply abandoned pet battles with that patch as we saw when the alpha released sooo ..... yeah. Totally a lack of communications on Blizzards part though.

The design of Undermine was cool, I will give you that. But the GAMEPLAY was bullshit (again, the terrible car among other boring things that just took ages to complete ...).

But to be fair, I prolly would have liked it a lot more if they a) had it connected to the above ground Kezan and b) just enabled flying with the x.x.7 patch. The rep buff event atleast helped making the grind abit more bearable though.

People always say that "Karesh was a last minute introduction because Rootlands was moved!" but that doesn't make sense because the only evidence we have of Rootlands is that it was a launch zone.

Karesh is shit because it's a last-patch zone, just like every other last-patch zone.

Also, no offense, your insistence on the car being shit seems to be a skill issue.

Flying would literally add nothing to the zone because there is no verticality.

[Joshuaj]

Undermine, despite the Cartel system being atrocious at launch, still was miles better than Ka'resh simply because you got what you expected.

Karesh was one of the biggest waste of potentials in a long time, and what we got wasn't even that good. I don't know how you can say that open-world-wise, Ka'resh was better, when all it had was warrants, which people did a whole 6 times for the achievements, and Phaseshifting, which just meant you couldn't fly.

On that note, the Undermine Soundtrack actually got nominated for the Hollywood Music in Media Awards. (Granted, I do think the Karesh Soundtrack is better than Undermine. Adam Burgess really is the best WoW composer in a long, long time.).



No way it will win when you have KPop Demon Hunters in the running, but still.

WoW music nominated alongside KPOP Demon Hunters, SINNERS, and Wicked???

Finally, it's up there among the greats!

- - - Updated - - -

While K'aresh was a good patch, especially music wise, I can't help but feel it's kinda carried by the Dimensius theme lmao

[Limayria]

Nazjatar has the same problem as Karesh does where it's completely wasted potential, and that alone brings it down so many points.

- - - Updated - - -



People always say that "Karesh was a last minute introduction because Rootlands was moved!" but that doesn't make sense because the only evidence we have of Rootlands is that it was a launch zone.

Karesh is shit because it's a last-patch zone, just like every other last-patch zone.

Also, no offense, your insistence on the car being shit seems to be a skill issue.

Flying would literally add nothing to the zone because there is no verticality.

You can also already fly with the jet packs in undermine.

I also think it's crazy to act like hero talents were a failure because you personally don't like the two options we got for a specific spec. Subspecs is a really good idea and allows different themes to live in the same spec.

Imo the bigger thing to criticize about hero talents is them being shared between different specs, it's fine for some hero talents but imo hero talents should mostly be for a single spec with some specs getting different versions of the same one and hero talents should be merged into the leveling curve where you select them much earlier and gradually earn points over time instead just having the whole thing start at 70

WoW music nominated alongside KPOP Demon Hunters, SINNERS, and Wicked???

Finally, it's up there among the greats!

- - - Updated - - -

While K'aresh was a good patch, especially music wise, I can't help but feel it's kinda carried by the Dimensius theme lmao

This is such a weird list lmao, I never thought I'd see wow there but idk how I can take it seriously when there's no hazbin nomination.

[Nymrohd]

On the Hero Talent issue, I think it is a problem for Hunters and maybe fire mages? It is certainly for hunters and it did get worse with the fact that while cornered by Dark Ranger and Sentinel into specific fantasies, patches then turned pack into Rexxar and further restricted MM. And that just sucks because Hunter as a class had the privilege to define its own theme to an extent by picking what was in their stable; yes there were always exceptions like Dire Beast (with glyphs helping correct it to an extent) but ultimately what Hunters probably want is the ability to pick specific Stable beasts for specific summoning abilities like they already can for their second companion. But that's not happening cause class customization is not a priority for Blizzard.

- - - Updated - - -

Imo the bigger thing to criticize about hero talents is them being shared between different specs

Agreed; the main issue was that they wanted a completely symmetrical design across all specs and just forced themes regardless of if it worked or not. Imo there should have been some basic spec specific or even class wide hero classes that just aligned with spec or class identity at large and then additional options could be added as well as the themes for them worked with no need for symmetry

[Lady Atia]

Nazjatar has the same problem as Karesh does where it's completely wasted potential, and that alone brings it down so many points.

- - - Updated - - -



People always say that "Karesh was a last minute introduction because Rootlands was moved!" but that doesn't make sense because the only evidence we have of Rootlands is that it was a launch zone.

Karesh is shit because it's a last-patch zone, just like every other last-patch zone.

Also, no offense, your insistence on the car being shit seems to be a skill issue.

Flying would literally add nothing to the zone because there is no verticality.

I mean, sure if motion sickness has something to do with skill.

[milkmustache]

While K'aresh was a good patch, especially music wise, I can't help but feel it's kinda carried by the Dimensius theme lmao

K'aresh didn't have a theme other than Dimensius, and that's the problem. The ecological succession was... okay in terms of worldbuilding, but aside from that we were just hopping around on 3 floating rocks killing Shadowguard Ethereals while Alleria is usually one quest ahead of us. I get it, they wanted to get Dimensius out of the picture to make Xal the big bad and also saw an opportunity to have reusable assets for Voidstorm, while also using old assets (Brokers) and rerouting an old part of Shadowlands lore into the modern story... but it was just such a bland patch. I'd take 4 more months of Undermine than K'aresh.

[Makorus]

You can also already fly with the jet packs in undermine.

I also think it's crazy to act like hero talents were a failure because you personally don't like the two options we got for a specific spec. Subspecs is a really good idea and allows different themes to live in the same spec.

Imo the bigger thing to criticize about hero talents is them being shared between different specs, it's fine for some hero talents but imo hero talents should mostly be for a single spec with some specs getting different versions of the same one and hero talents should be merged into the leveling curve where you select them much earlier and gradually earn points over time instead just having the whole thing start at 70





This is such a weird list lmao, I never thought I'd see wow there but idk how I can take it seriously when there's no hazbin nomination.

What?

I am totally for Hero Talents and want them to be turned into an evergreen feature, because it's easily expandable, however, the problem is just that there are two philosophies at play.

Are they supposed to be enhancements, or new fantasies? Because most of it are enhancements, while stuff like Dark Ranger, Sentinel and Sunfury, mainly, are just completely new class fantasies that are not remotely compatible with the original spec fantasy.

If I am playing Marksmanship right now, I do not have the option to not just play... Marksmanship. You either have the extremely defined Dark Ranger Hero Talent tree, or the extremely defined Sentinel tree. Granted, no other spec has that problem, with the exception of maybe Fire, seeing how you either have to play Frostfire or be Kael'thas, but people using those two as an example why "Hero talents totally failed!" are crazy.

I do think eventually, once they add more Hero Talent trees, they will become more separate. They are starting to already differentiate them quite a bit between specs, with some having completely different talents from spec to spec.

- - - Updated - - -

K'aresh didn't have a theme other than Dimensius, and that's the problem. The ecological succession was... okay in terms of worldbuilding, but aside from that we were just hopping around on 3 floating rocks killing Shadowguard Ethereals while Alleria is usually one quest ahead of us. I get it, they wanted to get Dimensius out of the picture to make Xal the big bad and also saw an opportunity to have reusable assets for Voidstorm, while also using old assets (Brokers) and rerouting an old part of Shadowlands lore into the modern story... but it was just such a bland patch. I'd take 4 more months of Undermine than K'aresh.

He was talking about the music.

[Sondrelk]

Nazjatar has the same problem as Karesh does where it's completely wasted potential, and that alone brings it down so many points.

- - - Updated - - -



People always say that "Karesh was a last minute introduction because Rootlands was moved!" but that doesn't make sense because the only evidence we have of Rootlands is that it was a launch zone.

Karesh is shit because it's a last-patch zone, just like every other last-patch zone.

Also, no offense, your insistence on the car being shit seems to be a skill issue.

Flying would literally add nothing to the zone because there is no verticality.

The evidence for K'aresh being last minute is also that Voidstorm is such a nothing zone. But if we assume it was meant to be K'aresh. Then it makes sense. Loads of Ethereal presence. Cosmic rock in space. The raid has Ethereals prominently in it.

The theory is very much that Rootlands (partially) swapped places with K'aresh. Specifically be splitting it in two, and making the Void heavy part of K'aresh into the Voidstorm. Then taking the Ethereal bit, bolstering it with a quick Broker retcon, and shipping it as its own zone.

It would explain a whole lot. Specifically why K'aresh is very barren (especially lacking enemies like Void Ray mounts and such), and why the Rootlands story in TWW abruptly stopped when it would have made much more sense for that expansion when you can literally see the old entrance to it.

[Makorus]

I mean, sure if motion sickness has something to do with skill.

"The car was totally shit because I have motion sickness!" is not the scathing review you think it is. Sucks that you couldn't enjoy it but I do feel the majority of the playerbase does not have to deal with that restriction.

[milkmustache]

He was talking about the music.

Oh, duh. I still stand by my point, maybe even more so now. The Dimensius theme is very solid, so much so that it was just the highlight of the patch.

[elbleuet]

In the Alliance housing area there's a portal to Silvermoon with the high elf banner but with blood elves arount it. Curious. Maybe it's unfinished.

[Ersula]

I know the internet constantly remembers things wrong but this is the first time I've seen this much historical revisionism for the current retail season.

[milkmustache]

I know the internet constantly remembers things wrong but this is the first time I've seen this much historical revisionism for the current retail season.

Is something revisionism if it's currently ongoing? Opinions can easily develop.

[Ersula]

In the Alliance housing area there's a portal to Silvermoon with the high elf banner but with blood elves arount it. Curious. Maybe it's unfinished.

The high Elf banner denotes the neutral areas of Silvermoon. Why would you want non-silvermoon elves in charge of a portal to Silvermoon? No way are Silvermoon officials letting the Silver Covenent control a portal to their capital city. You already asked this when the alpha came out & got a ton of people explaining this to you.

[Lady Atia]

"The car was totally shit because I have motion sickness!" is not the scathing review you think it is. Sucks that you couldn't enjoy it but I do feel the majority of the playerbase does not have to deal with that restriction.

I mean, with Dynamic Flight they managed to add interface options that reduced the issue there to 0. Mostly thanks to the removing of the blue lines when you increase your speed.

Anyways, literally no one in my guild did enjoy the car or the zone at all. So it's not just a "me issue" :X