The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Super Dickmann]

It's an overall vibe you get from Midnight, where it feels like the only reason they returned to Quel'thalas was not to explore how the world has evolved, but rather because that is where you will find the highest concentration of elves (besides Nelves). And that cramming in as many elves as possible was the primary focus.

Hopefully we do eventually return to an actual revamped Lordaeron, and we get the juicy story where the purification of the Plaguelands causes conflict between living and undead Lordaeron citizens.

Regarding Midnight, I don't see it. The races you see in the main roles - blood elves and void elves, are the obvious picks as the playable Thalassian elves of either faction. Their characterization is also entirely in keeping with their post-TBC identity (with all the brain damage of that one) for the blood elves and with what little there is of the void elves. The tension between the Blood Elves, the holy army and the void elves are also sensible and by both existing and having a race actually sensibly react to a foreign army occupying its capital city is the first time since Legion the story has played with this. Even bit characters like Halduron finally get to do something and have elements of the rangers not brought in since WC3 become relevant.

There are flies in the ointment, obviously, the Amani being a big one, but the factions themselves being the biggest one - the political/racial tension ongoing exists on the premise that the actual factions aren't involved, but the reason they aren't involved isn't there, save that the plot requires it. This isn't itself new - Legion excised the orcs from fighting their main baddie, shamans never do anything in the shaman expansion, but Legion was a time when the factions were relevant and different, and so their opposing each other was why they were mostly out of the main plot. During world peace, as @Skildar mentioned a while ago the plot has to contrive explanations why the enormous stable of allied gods don't descend on the threat like locusts and, faced with this impossible task and unwilling to just break them up or even to just say that all the wars have depleted them to nothing, it has opted not to address the topic at all.

[Nymrohd]

They definitely seem to be setting up SOMETHING with the High Elves this expansion beyond them having a new area, helping with one endgame chapter and dipping. It may tie into how they have no updated assets or models- because there are some planned for later on.

I just don't see it. The Void Elves get almost as much content as the Blood Elves with almost every quest in Voidstorm being Void Elf related, explaining how they function and building them in the world. It's like Blizzard telling High Elf fans "You are going to play a Void Elf and you'll like it!"

[Telogrus]

When was K’aresh destroyed? A few hundred thousand years ago, right?

[Cheezits]

I just don't see it. The Void Elves get almost as much content as the Blood Elves with almost every quest in Voidstorm being Void Elf related, explaining how they function and building them in the world. It's like Blizzard telling High Elf fans "You are going to play a Void Elf and you'll like it!"

I don't think they would include Vereesa and the High Elves at all if this was the case. It's smart to build up Void Elves but the Helves could've absolutely sat this one out if Blizz wanted.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

The dredging excuse was cool for how they got a fleet, but an actual port would be great for the primary Horde naval race.

Granted, I maintain as I have for years being the Horde's naval power should've gone to the goblins. It's kind of strange it didn't since they'd realistically be doing a lot of shipping that could exceed the cargo weight limits on zeppelins, and the RPG gives a vague but interesting picture of what their fleets could look like.

"Why are these Paladin relics not war-based? This person sang songs and did things unrelated to war? That's crazy..."

W...was this dude born yesterday?

As much as we obviously have regular friction, I'll solidly grant willing to take back an assumption when you see the thing being assumed about in action is a good character trait.

[Viridiel]

They definitely seem to be setting up SOMETHING with the High Elves this expansion beyond them having a new area, helping with one endgame chapter and dipping. It may tie into how they have no updated assets or models- because there are some planned for later on.

I believe there's a Vereesa questline we haven't seen yet. I'm not sure if the quest is in yet where they finally deal with guilt from the attempted Sunreaver genocide, but once they've dealt with that then they're pretty much a clean slate.

It's difficult because they need to be differentiated from blood elves, blue dragons, and the Kirin Tor. At the same time, they've stripped all of the "blood" and fel out of blood elves, so their magic aesthetic has further cannibalised the high elves' with all the blue crystals floating around. I'm a bit worried they're going to go down a more whimsical, Hearthstone-esque magical aesthetic for the high elves, but maybe they can pull it off.

Something I realised is that a cosmological vignette of Azeroth represents most of the elves: the White Lady for night elves, stars for nightborne (cannibalised from the night elves), the sun for blood elves, the Great Dark for void elves (and Azeroth for the wild elves -- haranir). That leaves high elves and the Blue Child unrepresented. Maybe they can do something interesting to tie the high elves to the Blue Child, somehow. The Blue Child is famous for wandering, and the high elves seem to be essentially nomadic now.

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-the new race is basically cannibalizing the lore of nelves and trolls

Can you explain what you mean by this? I'm seeing this take a lot and as someone who's read everything in Harandar, I'm really not sure where it comes from. Descendants of dark trolls who went deep into the earth to worship Azeroth instead of loa or Elune is a completely new niche that has very little to do with their cousins in the long run. The fact that most of the haranir lore reveals were predicted two years ago based on what little we learned in the War Within should tell you that they haven't done anything particularly outrageous with them.

Their aesthetics, though? Yeah, Haranir have better troll and night elf customisation options than the original races and that's pretty silly.

[Cheezits]

Can you explain what you mean by this? I'm seeing this take a lot and as someone who's read everything in Harandar, I'm really not sure where it comes from. Descendants of dark trolls who went deep into the earth to worship Azeroth instead of loa or Elune is a completely new niche that has very little to do with their cousins in the long run. The fact that most of the haranir lore reveals were predicted two years ago based on what little we learned in the War Within should tell you that they haven't done anything particularly outrageous with them.

People think elves that protect the world trees is robbing the Night Elves of their purpose when that purpose has been delegated to literally every race since WC3. And robbing the Tauren from their Earth Mother/loving Azeroth schtick when the latter is also most races.

I think they have better night elf aesthetics in the customization area but not trolls. Not at all. Hard to make a good looking troll with them.

[Sondrelk]

People think elves that protect the world trees is robbing the Night Elves of their purpose when that purpose has been delegated to literally every race since WC3. And robbing the Tauren from their Earth Mother/loving Azeroth schtick when the latter is also most races.

I think they have better night elf aesthetics in the customization area but not trolls. Not at all. Hard to make a good looking troll with them.

It's more specifically that what is supposed to be the Night Elf identity. In this case, dark elves living in harmony with nature, heavy focus on druidism, and a slight xenophobic bent, have all been taken by the Haranir by virtue of them doing the same thing. But to an even more extreme extent.

In a way much the same way SL did to the Scourge with Maldraxxus. Most of the same stuff. But even more prominently.

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Should of course be said that the Nelves do have stuff that is still exclusive to them, like the Eline worship and the whole Warglaives warrior aesthetic. But the Haranir have taken some of the overarching stuff.

[Viridiel]

It's more specifically that what is supposed to be the Night Elf identity. In this case, dark elves living in harmony with nature, heavy focus on druidism, and a slight xenophobic bent, have all been taken by the Haranir by virtue of them doing the same thing. But to an even more extreme extent..

I can't really take that seriously when the only reason this doesn't describe several races is the addition of "dark elves". I think it might be fair to feel the haranir have taken some long-abandoned night elf theming from before World of Warcraft, but to claim that they've somehow cannibalised their lore seems outright ridiculous. The only overlap in their lore is that the haranir care for the roots of the world trees which the night elves planted, but a pretty significant point is made of the fact that the haranir historically don't care about the trees themselves, just their roots. A few characters muse about it being a mistake to only care about the roots, but at the end of the day care has been put into making the lore separate.

In a way much the same way SL did to the Scourge with Maldraxxus. Most of the same stuff. But even more prominently.

I don't think that's anywhere near comparable. In the case of Maldraxxus, it seems like we're expected to believe the Maldraxxi inspired the Lich King and are directly responsible for them having similar aesthetics (despite previous explanations of copying nerubian architecture (which is serendipitously shared with the tol'vir because nobody can make their minds up)). We're not talking about any night elf behaviour or aesthetics being inspired or directly caused by the haranir. The night elves and haranir have no historical interactions and no overlapping lore that isn't also shared with every other druid (i.e., the presence of Cenarius in their past).

[Joshuaj]

I definitely think there's room for something like this to happen, but I still can't shake the feeling that 12.1 is going to have more than just Atal'Utek. It'd be pretty insane if the Alpha managed to allow players to see the ENTIRE 12.1 zone. There's nothing to anticipate for patches at that rate, we just know what we're getting.

All of the old High Elf lodges feel like prime areas to come into play as well, good call. Maybe not as focal points, but flavor with the new assets they have. I'm really curious what bridges us to TLT. TWW > Midnight always felt like a situation where Xal gaining more power would bring us to the next phase of the story, but we're going to have to lose hard at some point in Midnight, after we just did in TWW. It'll be interesting. Could be something with the First Flame?

I wouldn't be shocked if 12.1 had some extra stuff to it. Cause you're right, us seeing the 12.1 zone in the Alpha is strange.

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Granted, I maintain as I have for years being the Horde's naval power should've gone to the goblins. It's kind of strange it didn't since they'd realistically be doing a lot of shipping that could exceed the cargo weight limits on zeppelins, and the RPG gives a vague but interesting picture of what their fleets could look like.



As much as we obviously have regular friction, I'll solidly grant willing to take back an assumption when you see the thing being assumed about in action is a good character trait.

I only really saw the Arator stuff in Eversong, so I didn't mind it and assumed folks were just overplaying his ignorance, but after playing the questline, I can't help but agree with y'all. This dude is like 40, and yet he never realized Paladins were more than just fighters? Seriously???

Like, that's BAD writing. Also, maybe I'm confused, but whatcha mean? Like did you assume I thought his ignorance was a good character trait or summ?

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The whole Arator questline has some good stuff, but it ultimately fumbles hard on other things as well. Like, ffs, they retconned Turalyon's locked in and non-pissed demeanor when he battled Orgrim...

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Also, can Blizzard PLEASE raise both the levels and the respawn times on some of these fucking mobs in the Arator questline????? Golly!

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Wouldn't be shocked if the First Flame was used for Midnight's last patch.

At the very least, I see the Worldsoul Saga is slow build up for us going to Avaloren afterwards, maybe as its own "saga", or maybe as the start of a new era of Warcraft, with Avaloren being holy and exploration based. Wouldn't be shocked if we got another Demon expac or summ as well not long after, since they're going through it rn, and the Draenei are making a new city, so that having a connection would be nice. Would also like to see an Outland revamp or summ with a new Demon expac (like how I fan-speculated a while back). Idk, would be nice to see that stuff. Azshara also needs some focus, same with the other cosmic realms and whatnot, but I'm not gonna speculate that far in. Warcraft is an evolving franchise, these plots take time to cook.

[milkmustache]

I wouldn't be shocked if 12.1 had some extra stuff to it. Cause you're right, us seeing the 12.1 zone in the Alpha is strange.

It would be an unprecented fuck up in terms of patch content spoiling in the modern cadence. That said, it's going to be the raid tier, so we could always be wrong. I wonder if there's areas further south they could expand. Jintha'alor or Zul'Mashar to start laying the groundwork for a potential move towards the Plaguelands/First Flame/Whatever the hell 12.2 is gonna be.

[Joshuaj]

And besides, after TLT, a lil break from the cosmic chaos is needed, even if for an expac or two.

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It would be an unprecented fuck up in terms of patch content spoiling in the modern cadence. That said, it's going to be the raid tier, so we could always be wrong. I wonder if there's areas further south they could expand. Jintha'alor or Zul'Mashar to start laying the groundwork for a potential move towards the Plaguelands/First Flame/Whatever the hell 12.2 is gonna be.

I initially thought 12.2 would be related to the celestial bodies of Azeroth (especially since the Sanctum of Light showcases them in that projection), but I wouldn't be shocked if Midnight namely focused on the upper Eastern Kingdoms the entire expac. Afterall, the Plaguelands are really the only areas that feel a bit outdated. Everything else in the Eastern Kingdoms at least has some current narrative purpose and non-outdatedness to them (outside of graphics and maybe size, ofc). Besides, we can always see Azeroth's celestial bodies in future expacs, tho I will admit I wanna see Elune, as well as more connections regarding her, the Titans, and Azeroth, tho TLT might also further explore that.

Shit, we're seemingly getting An'she lore in TLT, so who knows?

[Ersula]

And besides, after TLT, a lil break from the cosmic chaos is needed, even if for an expac or two.

I know The Void is in the cosmology, this has primarily been a very grounded saga. This saga has been so focused on Azeroth I'm hoping the next saga takes us off world, at least in a more major way than K'aresh.

It feels like if the Arathi Emperor or some sort of invading alien force would both be too similar to what's been happening in The Worldsoul Saga. Maybe the scourge? Undeath was a big thing in Shadowlands, but we weren't dealing with it directly. Maybe the next saga should be a Warcraft-3-esque plot.

Elun'ahir's roots (according to the story we had at least) survived in a crater. There was nothing about it spreading throughout the world, and the Rootlands were expected to be that crater. Maybe it still exists somewhere else, and it could certainly enter the story for real at some point, but it's not what the Haranir were "protecting".

If that's so....why is there a root system complete with their magic root teleportation system in Azj-Kahet? That's how we meet the Haranir in the first place below Khaz Algar. They explain its the worldtree's root system that allows them to travel that way... but they also reveal travel is also possible to places where a worldtree has never been: A guy fell down the tree capilary system to Harandar from Duskwood of all places. You got to read between the lines a little. Elun'ahir, a missing worldtree must be the literal missing link unifying the root system.

[Joshuaj]

I know The Void is in the cosmology, this has primarily been a very grounded saga. This saga has been so focused on Azeroth I'm hoping the next saga takes us off world, at least in a more major way than K'aresh.

It feels like if the Arathi Emperor or some sort of invading alien force would both be too similar to what's been happening in The Worldsoul Saga. Maybe the scourge? Undeath was a big thing in Shadowlands, but we weren't dealing with it directly. Maybe the next saga should be a Warcraft-3-esque plot.
If that's so....why is there a root system complete with their magic root teleportation system in Azj-Kahet? That's how we meet the Haranir in the first place below Khaz Algar. They explain its the worldtree's root system that allows them to travel that way... but they also reveal travel is also possible to places where a worldtree has never been: A guy fell down the tree capilary system to Harandar from Duskwood of all places. You got to read between the lines a little. Elun'ahir, a missing worldtree must be the literal missing link unifying the root system.

Ehhh, yeah we have been on Azeroth most of the time, but the final boss of the first expac of the saga was a Void Lord...

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And in 12.0, we're gonna battle both a monstrous undreamt god in the Rift of Aln, as well as a fallen Naaru (AKA L'ura the Midnight Archangel) at the void corrupted Sunwell.

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Midnight MIGHT end with something not as grand (as I don't think we're gonna battle a Light Lord in Midnight, assuming there is something above the Naaru ofc), but TLT will definitely be crazy, with the return of the Titans, us learning more about An'she apparently, etc.

I will say this, I do wanna see Elune directly at least once.

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I will also say this, I do hope something is above the Naaru in terms of the Light's denizens. Also wouldn't be shocked if the Light realm was called "Heaven" or" "The Heavens", since it's used a LOT in this saga.

[Viridiel]

Wouldn't be shocked if the First Flame was used for Midnight's last patch.

I thought it might be involved in rekindling the Sunwell, especially since they're leaning heavily into the idea of pure cosmic forces being corrupting/all-consuming and the Sacred Flame is a stable combination of forces (in fact, Liadrin directly compares it to the Sunwell, but that was before it was pumped full of pure Light energy by the Vanguard with no regard for its non-Light components). Instead, it seems like the story is actually moving to completely replacing the Sunwell with the Dawnwell as a source of all kinds of magic. Do the new blood elf voice lines mention the Sunwell? I can't find that video with all of them.

Only somewhat related, but the seeming retcon of the Emerald Nightmare being an extension of something that's existed within the Rift of Aln for 20,000+ years rather than something Yogg-Saron created himself draws me back to the First Flame short story, where the northern Eastern Kingdoms is plagued with a curse which turns people into mutated monsters cured by the Sacred Flame. It feels like it's all related and relevant to the area, but I also don't really see a lot of room for us to explore Lordaeron in this expansion with the first major patch zone already established and plenty more Burning Crusade nostalgia baiting left to do.

[Eldryth]

If that's so....why is there a root system complete with their magic root teleportation system in Azj-Kahet? That's how we meet the Haranir in the first place below Khaz Algar. They explain its the worldtree's root system that allows them to travel that way... but they also reveal travel is also possible to places where a worldtree has never been: A guy fell down the tree capilary system to Harandar from Duskwood of all places. You got to read between the lines a little. Elun'ahir, a missing worldtree must be the literal missing link unifying the root system.

There's no missing link because it's already sufficiently explained- Harandar already shows that the roots from all the known World Trees are spread throughout the world. They wouldn't be able to meet in one place otherwise when they're starting in places as distant as Nordrassil and Amirdrassil. We're explicitly told that the Haranir travel along those roots, and the logical extension here is that other branches of those roots are what reached Khaz Algar and Duskwood. I'd guess Nordrassil for Khaz Algar and Shaladrassil for Duskwood, those seem like the closest ones- they're far, but it's still not as far as Nordrassil's roots would need to go to reach Amirdrassil's.

If Elun'ahir's roots were in Harandar, we'd see them like we do all the other trees. And the Haranir would definitely have a Rootwarden for it. But it's very clearly absent here. Maybe it still exists somewhere else, and maybe we'll visit it later- maybe we'd reach it by following one of the other trees' Rootways- but it's not the Haranir's home. The other World Trees are.


Assuming the speculation associating Elun'ahir's uprooting with Y'shaarj's death proves true (maybe it's actually both and Y'shaarj was infesting the tree?), then logically the crater where Elun'ahir's roots are would actually be the Maelstrom, as that's what remains of the Well of Eternity that formed where Y'shaarj was removed. That'd be a good place to revisit.

[Nymrohd]

There's no missing link because it's already sufficiently explained- Harandar already shows that the roots from all the known World Trees are spread throughout the world. They wouldn't be able to meet in one place otherwise when they're starting in places as distant as Nordrassil and Amirdrassil. We're explicitly told that the Haranir travel along those roots, and the logical extension here is that other branches of those roots are what reached Khaz Algar and Duskwood. I'd guess Nordrassil for Khaz Algar and Shaladrassil for Duskwood, those seem like the closest ones- they're far, but it's still not as far as Nordrassil's roots would need to go to reach Amirdrassil's.

If Elun'ahir's roots were in Harandar, we'd see them like we do all the other trees. And the Haranir would definitely have a Rootwarden for it. But it's very clearly absent here. Maybe it still exists somewhere else, and maybe we'll visit it later- maybe we'd reach it by following one of the other trees' Rootways- but it's not the Haranir's home. The other World Trees are.


Assuming the speculation associating Elun'ahir's uprooting with Y'shaarj's death proves true (maybe it's actually both and Y'shaarj was infesting the tree?), then logically the crater where Elun'ahir's roots are would actually be the Maelstrom, as that's what remains of the Well of Eternity that formed where Y'shaarj was removed. That'd be a good place to revisit.

Or Elun'ahir is the Cradle itself and/or Aln'ara is not Azeroth.

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I thought it might be involved in rekindling the Sunwell, especially since they're leaning heavily into the idea of pure cosmic forces being corrupting/all-consuming and the Sacred Flame is a stable combination of forces (in fact, Liadrin directly compares it to the Sunwell, but that was before it was pumped full of pure Light energy by the Vanguard with no regard for its non-Light components). Instead, it seems like the story is actually moving to completely replacing the Sunwell with the Dawnwell as a source of all kinds of magic. Do the new blood elf voice lines mention the Sunwell? I can't find that video with all of them.

Only somewhat related, but the seeming retcon of the Emerald Nightmare being an extension of something that's existed within the Rift of Aln for 20,000+ years rather than something Yogg-Saron created himself draws me back to the First Flame short story, where the northern Eastern Kingdoms is plagued with a curse which turns people into mutated monsters cured by the Sacred Flame. It feels like it's all related and relevant to the area, but I also don't really see a lot of room for us to explore Lordaeron in this expansion with the first major patch zone already established and plenty more Burning Crusade nostalgia baiting left to do.

Or we could balance the Sunwell with a heap of Azerite

[Viridiel]

Or we could balance the Sunwell with a heap of Azerite

I was thinking about that while using alndust to calm the Lightbloom, but we already know that the Darkwell is going to be cured by the power of the "elves united", likely changing name to the Dawnwell.

[Jaggler]

I was thinking about that while using alndust to calm the Lightbloom, but we already know that the Darkwell is going to be cured by the power of the "elves united", likely changing name to the Dawnwell.

Can't wait for the new Allied race in TLT: Dawn Elves

[Enrif]

Can't wait for the new Allied race in TLT: Dawn Elves

I.E. High Elves, but with a light effect instead of the void effect of the void elves? Of course they get new customization like halos and ethereal light wings... but gods beware, no simple high elves.