The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Jaggler]

I.E. High Elves, but with a light effect instead of the void effect of the void elves? Of course they get new customization like halos and ethereal light wings... but gods beware, no simple high elves.

Both would be an absolute waste

[Auxis]

It's a weird situation with both. Are we going to get plot threads about reclaiming destroyed cities again? Especially for ones that have both had some form of resolution to them.

But they can't really just give back Undercity, because then we're in an even more precarious situation than Silvermoon. Are you going to have another city where Alliance are visitors in a Horde city, or are you going to give former non-undead denizens of Lordaeron a chance to resettle their homes and live amongst the Forsaken? It's a situation that wouldn't please anybody unless done completely correctly, which I have no clue how that'd even work.

Unfortunately, I feel it'd be more likely that they'd spin that area into a Light based conflict area and raid.



As a continuation of their story in Cataclysm, I think so, although it sheds a really interesting form of racial flavor they had.

Maybe the let the forsaken have a choice of where they live. Some of the freshly raised ones may not take to well to living in a sewer, while the older ones may be more used to it but may also like the option of open air?

[Skildar]

Maybe the let the forsaken have a choice of where they live. Some of the freshly raised ones may not take to well to living in a sewer, while the older ones may be more used to it but may also like the option of open air?

How do you keep raising undeads? They've kind of given up on this notion since SL. I would be fine with them adding adding "living lordaeron character" to the Forsaken if they were to have a distinct physical appearance from the buffed up Stormwind and Gilneas humans

[Enrif]

Maybe the let the forsaken have a choice of where they live. Some of the freshly raised ones may not take to well to living in a sewer, while the older ones may be more used to it but may also like the option of open air?

Are there still any newly raised forsaken? I image after the whole Sylvanas thing, the "recruitment" has gone way down. Overall, unlike any other race, forsaken are on a direct extinction course, as they can't really reproduce. They can only resurrect other dead people, but those might not want to be undead at all or not join the forsaken.

Should they reopen the attempts to reconnect to their living relatives and perhaps prepare lordaeron to be used by the living once more? A type of altruistic undead is rarely used in fiction. A undead that uses the second life they have to make the actual lives of others better.

[Eldryth]

Or Elun'ahir is the Cradle itself

That theory, at least, could work I guess. I had thought that it, like the Rootways and most of Harandar, was made up of the other World Trees' roots, but looking back I can't find an explicit confirmation of that, and I suppose that the timeline for that wouldn't really make sense (given that none of the other World Trees would have been planted at the time when the Titans ordered Azeroth- Shaladrassil was the earliest known one, and even that wasn't planted until the early Night Elves' time). It'd be oddly anticlimactic though- I'd think they would make a bigger deal of there being another World Tree present, and give it its own Rootwarden and such. Especially one with such big ties to Elune and the Titans.

and/or Aln'ara is not Azeroth.

Please, no. Just like the TWW theory of the Radiant Song not being Azeroth, I think that'd really clash with the narrative.

This is supposed to be a saga about Azeroth's Worldsoul. The Radiant Song and this new Aln'ara stuff has been her presence in the story so far, and where we're getting most of what we know about her. Take that away, and she'll be completely absent until the climax- and removing a lot our reasons for caring about her would severely undermine the stakes. And I really can't see any benefit to it beyond shock value.

[Jaggler]

How do you keep raising undeads? They've kind of given up on this notion since SL. I would be fine with them adding adding "living lordaeron character" to the Forsaken if they were to have a distinct physical appearance from the buffed up Stormwind and Gilneas humans

Yeah, if they decide to do something with Lordaeron/the Forsaken, they kinda need to adress, where new Forsaken are coming from. The Val'kyr are gone, there is no faction war going on. Maybe there will be a new wave of "Light Undead" like the Arathi raised in Priory and once that's done they could join the Forsaken.

[Enrif]

Please, no. Just like the TWW theory of the Radiant Song not being Azeroth, I think that'd really clash with the narrative.

This is supposed to be a saga about Azeroth's Worldsoul. The Radiant Song and this new Aln'ara stuff has been her presence in the story so far, and where we're getting most of what we know about her. Take that away, and she'll be completely absent until the climax- and removing a lot our reasons for caring about her would severely undermine the stakes. And I really can't see any benefit to it beyond shock value.

Aln'hara is about the dream/nature. If Beledar is really "just" world soul essence, than the world soul is light and life?

There are things that are still a mystery about the world soul and the cosmic forces.

It could be any amount of things like:
The worldsoul got infused

• by light through beledar,
• by nature through Elun'ahir/Aln'hara,
• by order through the Manifold,
• by fel through the Sargeras Sword,
• by death through Amirdrassil,
• and the last thing missing is void by Xal'atath or already done through the black blood?

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, if they decide to do something with Lordaeron/the Forsaken, they kinda need to adress, where new Forsaken are coming from. The Val'kyr are gone, there is no faction war going on. Maybe there will be a new wave of "Light Undead" like the Arathi raised in Priory and once that's done they could join the Forsaken.

i don't think undead fans would like light undead, as that would put Calias presence more into the forefront. Yet, going the evil route of raising more undead is also not a real way forward. Perhaps it was a bad idea to make the forsaken part of a faction that is playable? Or that the horde isn't straight evil, thus promoting necromancy. A difficult situation for them.

[Super Dickmann]

Yeah, if they decide to do something with Lordaeron/the Forsaken, they kinda need to adress, where new Forsaken are coming from. The Val'kyr are gone, there is no faction war going on. Maybe there will be a new wave of "Light Undead" like the Arathi raised in Priory and once that's done they could join the Forsaken.

Nothing really stops a regular necromancer from raising a zombie. Sure, no higher necromancy or free unlimited one-ups like what Sylvanas had in mind with Eyir, and certainly less cool than Viking warrior angels but it’ll do the trick.

The race should in any case not be based on its own abolition. Lilian’s talk with Neferess and the Zelling quest shows the way forward, as does Sylvanas’s appearance in the upcoming patch. The Forsaken should proselytize akin to the Cult of the Damned. Don’t want to die of the pox? Undeath. Want to overcome your mortal limitations? Undeath. Scared/hateful of the Shadowlands? You guessed it. Leave the woe is me and tirelessly defending the living to the Death Knights.

[Jaggler]

Nothing really stops a regular necromancer from raising a zombie. Sure, no higher necromancy or free unlimited one-ups like what Sylvanas had in mind with Eyir, and certainly less cool than Viking warrior angels but it’ll do the trick.

The race should in any case not be based on its own abolition. Lilian’s talk with Neferess and the Zelling quest shows the way forward, as does Sylvanas’s appearance in the upcoming patch. The Forsaken should proselytize akin to the Cult of the Damned. Don’t want to die of the pox? Undeath. Want to overcome your mortal limitations? Undeath. Scared/hateful of the Shadowlands? You guessed it. Leave the woe is me and tirelessly defending the living to the Death Knights.

I'm now imagining a marketing booth in every major city where Forsaken are handing out flyers for people to sign up for Undeath.

[Nymrohd]

Yeah, if they decide to do something with Lordaeron/the Forsaken, they kinda need to adress, where new Forsaken are coming from. The Val'kyr are gone, there is no faction war going on. Maybe there will be a new wave of "Light Undead" like the Arathi raised in Priory and once that's done they could join the Forsaken.

With the Helm of Domination broken, new Forsaken could just come from former Scourge just like the original Forsaken did. It would absolutely make sense to have Forsaken looking for kin among the undead wandering in Northrend or other Scourge locations, killing any necromancers, renegade death knights or demons that are keeping them enslaved and offering them a place among the Forsaken.

[KOREAN DAVE]

High elves probably aren’t happening. They should just allow all customizations for void elves and blood elves across both races as an easy fix for high elves. Especially since velf pally seems to be coming.

I’m working through the beta and I gotta say Zul’Aman was a fun ride but Liadrin playing therapist for Zul’Jarra was terrible and just pulled me out of the scene every time. They really should have found a way to let the player character build up the relationship with the Amani and not Liadrin.

I gave up on WoW’s story with how Kael’thas was handled back in BC so I’m not very invested in this regardless but it is just so disappointing to see how so many major NPCs just act as therapists for each other. I don’t even want to get started on how they’ve totally assassinated Turalyon’s character.

I get not wanting to do all out race war, that would turn heads in a bad way nowadays, but surely there’s a middleground where we see some real animosity between two warring factions like the elves and Amani, or shit do some rogue scourge to beat down if you really want to avoid troll war stuff.

[Enrif]

I’m working through the beta and I gotta say Zul’Aman was a fun ride but Liadrin playing therapist for Zul’Jarra was terrible and just pulled me out of the scene every time. They really should have found a way to let the player character build up the relationship with the Amani and not Liadrin.

They could have used one of the many horde troll NPCs. Rokhan, Talanji, Zekhan, or, as she was even part of the vanguard: High Prelate Rata!! She would have been right there and could also tie into the light story with Rata and Liadrin representing different types of Light users.

[Super Dickmann]

They could have used one of the many horde troll NPCs. Rokhan, Talanji, Zekhan, or, as she was even part of the vanguard: High Prelate Rata!! She would have been right there and could also tie into the light story with Rata and Liadrin representing different types of Light users.

It’s funny how essentially every problem of this story, notwithstanding Zul’jin’s treatment and the general softening of the Amani, the latter of which is which is as inevitable as the tide can be readily resolved by just making a Horde troll the protagonist. Now the Amani don’t need to disavow anyone for fighting the elves or get slated for removal for having the temerity to be upset at them (the brother character) and Liadrin doesn’t have to be a nanny to the guys who killed her family and tortured her. It’s not like this has anything to do with her arc and her being the calmer, wiser head is just silly.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I'm now imagining a marketing booth in every major city where Forsaken are handing out flyers for people to sign up for Undeath.

It was written accordingly:

All the faiths of sarkic stature probe half-blindly the consecration of a sacred death, yet for them the end of a time is a threshold beyond which the contents remain unknown and the wisdom of the rot-anointed becomes unrecoverable.

This is unlike any religion which has come before and any which will come after for these are the sacrifices of Zul'Aman and the martyrs of the Light among you and in their ribs holding reception for Renilash. THESE ARE HAGIOGRAPHIES IN THE FLESH. This is the completion of the course of the Benedictions of Flesh and these are the anointed of Voidlight and seedbags of Twilight.

[Jaggler]

I’m working through the beta and I gotta say Zul’Aman was a fun ride but Liadrin playing therapist for Zul’Jarra was terrible and just pulled me out of the scene every time. They really should have found a way to let the player character build up the relationship with the Amani and not Liadrin.

Tbh, I'm not against Liadrin being a "stand-in" Blood Elf in Zul'Aman. It's just that the speed in which campaign quests are dealing with issues, doesn't lend itself to properly exploring generational trauma on both sides for thousands of years.

[Pyrophax]

Tbh, I'm not against Liadrin being a "stand-in" Blood Elf in Zul'Aman. It's just that the speed in which campaign quests are dealing with issues, doesn't lend itself to properly exploring generational trauma on both sides for thousands of years.

I hope we will see Atal'Utek with proper troll characters. Let Rokhan and Talanji meet new leaders of Amani. Let settle troll deals with trolls characters. Do not put humans or gnomes here. Arator and Liadrin too.

[Jaggler]

I hope we will see Atal'Utek with proper troll characters. Let Rokhan and Talanji meet new leaders of Amani. Let settle troll deals with trolls characters. Do not put humans or gnomes here. Arator and Liadrin too.

Oh yeah, the Isle of Fangs/Ula'tek thing, should preferably be a Troll affair. Just saying that in the context of the Level-Up campaign it makes sense to have a Blood Elf involved in Zul'Aman

[Pyrophax]

Oh yeah, the Isle of Fangs/Ula'tek thing, should preferably be a Troll affair. Just saying that in the context of the Level-Up campaign it makes sense to have a Blood Elf involved in Zul'Aman

It is. We start with Blood Elf, we quest with them in High Elf expansion. That is understandable. We see content from their eyes, so to speak. Liadrin is odd choice for trolls, I rather see some troll hater to change attitude, but it "works" with High Elf expansion. I even say if we drop "our" characters at the gate of Zul'aman and start questing with forest trolls only - it would be rather strange.

But troll patch needs troll characters. Zul'jarra and Zul'jan are ok, but we need our trolls too. Zekhan (god no), Rokhan, Talanji, High Prelate Rata, even Loti+Raal works here.
Snake Loa is Darkspear revered loa - we need them too. Vanira/Gadrin/Zen'tabra/Bwemba. Any meaningful characters should be there for snakes. If there will be snakes.

[Jaggler]

It is. We start with Blood Elf, we quest with them in High Elf expansion. That is understandable. We see content from their eyes, so to speak. Liadrin is odd choice for trolls, I rather see some troll hater to change attitude, but it "works" with High Elf expansion. I even say if we drop "our" characters at the gate of Zul'aman and start questing with forest trolls only - it would be rather strange.

But troll patch needs troll characters. Zul'jarra and Zul'jan are ok, but we need our trolls too. Zekhan (god no), Rokhan, Talanji, High Prelate Rata, even Loti+Raal works here.
Snake Loa is Darkspear revered loa - we need them too. Vanira/Gadrin/Zen'tabra/Bwemba. Any meaningful characters should be there for snakes. If there will be snakes.

Liadrin has some history with Trolls, being kidnapped by them etc. She would have the potential to be a (Amani)-Troll-hater, Blizz just decided to kinda drop that.

[Vakir]

The Forsaken should proselytize akin to the Cult of the Damned. Don’t want to die of the pox? Undeath. Want to overcome your mortal limitations? Undeath. Scared/hateful of the Shadowlands? You guessed it. Leave the woe is me and tirelessly defending the living to the Death Knights.

They've already released their first ad! Bold direction, I have to say.



I would like this new direction. A weird dark transhumanism. They can start by harvesting Calia for parts to turn into new flesh golems infused with magic. No anesthesia, wouldn't want to accidentally curb some of that Light.