The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Santandame]

I mean, only one of your examples actually looks impressive, and that's the port area with a massive sea gate and some ships.

The others are funny examples: One is a pirate-controlled area with ugly buildings and ship wreckage all around, and the other is an area with a stable, roads, and a horse contest arena.

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If you want me to take closer looks into these places, I can definitely do that.

The name of the game is detail. Not what you find aesthetically pleasing. The former is objective, the latter is subjective.

“Ugly” is subjective. It’s an opinion. Reducing the Norwington Estate to just a horse contest arena and a stable is completely and utterly disingenuous. You’re not exactly arguing in good faith here. This isn’t even including the NPC’s as well as all the other various detail and clutter in the area.

If you’re just going to be disingenuous and reductive then there is absolutely no point discussing this with you.

[Cheezits]

See, I completely disagree. Using modern comes, The Ringing Deeps is a much better example of a larger, detailed modern zone, in my opinion.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Hallowfall is painfully average carried by the Beledar.

And Ringing Deeps is the closest thing to a pre-DF theme park zone where you have little pockets of aggressively defined, mob-filled theming aka lavaland, mist fog area, dark void area, goblin area, kobold area. I don't like it for that reason. But per the discussions we have had on here it is very evident that some people do prefer those. It's really just a matter of personal preference.

Undermine did that far better IMO with very themed areas, but it's not aggressively corrupted/enemy themed so it's more or less a lived in world versus stuck in conflict stasis.

[Nymrohd]

I really do not think these will impact the mass majority of players AKA LFR heroes that beat the raid and unsub, AKA the lifeblood of the game AKA dummy whales that buy the brutosaur and wow tokens.

Maybe this expansion will kill all high-level fan intrigue in the game (loreheads etc) but... I really doubt it. The people tired of Carebear Californiacraft will eventually leave, but considering this entire site has put up with so many bad expansions...

Loreheads died long ago. We are the remnants of a remnant here. Everyone still around is just not leaving.

[Elronas16]

I mean, only one of your examples actually looks impressive, and that's the port area with a massive sea gate and some ships.

The others are funny examples: One is a pirate-controlled area with ugly buildings and ship wreckage all around, and the other is an area with a stable, roads, and a horse contest arena.

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If you want me to take closer looks into these places, I can definitely do that.

It being 'uglier' is of little importance here. It's not my preferd choice of visuals or aestetics either, but surely there's people that like it more than the BE stuff. What is undeniable is that it's a lot better designed and elaborate as a village/town than Fairbreeze is.

And as for 'area with a stable, roads, and a horse contest arena', well what does Birghtwing estate in your picture have to make up for that? Flower patterns on the grass? Please.

[Cheezits]

The name of the game is detail. Not what you find aesthetically pleasing. The former is objective, the latter is subjective.

No, it's not. Unless you want to count pixels. What you find constitutes as a detail differs from what someone else constitutes as a detail. Do you want to argue which one has more props? That's objective. Which one has more NPCs? That's easy, because there aren't any currently in those QT pictures. Which one has higher texture resolution? Also an objective argument, it's probably BFA.

"This picture is more detailed than the other one" or "I like this more than that"? Kind of a pointless cyclical argument to shit up this speculation thread but hey, if people really want to use this thread as Midnight-themed r/wow with profile pictures go ahead.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I just do not think a Story collapse is likely even if they are tempting fate the further and further they do not reassess and again if we do not have Animated Shorts or IGCs it does become harder and harder to see how they're going to obfuscate the state of things. We are a 3 minute IGC/CGI/Animated Short away from everyone being happy but if we do not have resources or at this point direction/basic understanding of Warcraft moments it becomes infinitely harder for them as time goes on.

The game is also pretty great and in its best state outside of the Story issues. It is unfortunate that Lore and Narrative fans are getting turned into effigys' to burn by the Leadership of Warcraft but they made the calculus that we are weak as fuck and they probably made the calculation that the Metzen scheme was worth it at the ire of their Lore/Narrative fans finding them reprehensibly awful for their decisions in regards to short term profit and maximized gains at all costs.

[Makabreska]

It being 'uglier' is of little importance here. It's not my preferd choice of visuals or aestetics either, but sure there's people that like it more than the BE stuff. What is undeniable is that it's a lot better designed and elaborate as a village/town than Fairbreeze is.

And as for 'area with a stable, roads, and a horse contest arena', well what does Birghtwing estate in your picture have to make up for that? Flower patterns on the grass? Please.

Your comparisons are nonsense. You compare infrastructure of a human nation forced into practicality and scavenging due to living in a harsh environment to a thousands years old, beauty valuing elven nation that used magic in everyday chores.

Not to mention that revamped Qual'thalas follows it's original design from BC. Like it was guaranteed it's gonna do.

[Joshuaj]

It being 'uglier' is of little importance here. It's not my preferd choice of visuals or aestetics either, but surely there's people that like it more than the BE stuff. What is undeniable is that it's a lot better designed and elaborate as a village/town than Fairbreeze is.

And as for 'area with a stable, roads, and a horse contest arena', well what does Birghtwing estate in your picture have to make up for that? Flower patterns on the grass? Please.

Uhm, yes. A lush garden with unicorns and other animals walking about, a bunch of elves just hanging out, a park-like design, a beach to vibe at, some little building areas to rest in, and a floating building that also serves as a house.

In a place known as the land of eternal spring, is it not natural to have a magical garden estate?

[Romanz]

what or who is Ula'Tek?

[Cheezits]

Your comparisons are nonsense. You compare infrastructure of a human nation forced into practicality and scavenging due to living in a harsh environment to a thousands years old, beauty valuing elven nation that used magic in everyday chores.

Not to mention that revamped Qual'thalas follows it's original design from BC. Like it was guaranteed it's gonna do.

And there's the rub. People wanted Red Suramar. They didn't do Red Suramar. Get over it.

TBC SMC and Eversong weren't designed as metropolises like Suramar and Boralus so when they did HD SMC and Eversong they kept to those design principles.

[Joshuaj]

I am so happy Blizzard remembered the unicorns

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what or who is Ula'Tek?

Zul'Aman Serpent Goddess. Warcraft RPG lore that's been somewhat brought into the canon (Much like Taeschalach, Gorribal, and Gorschalach).

[Elronas16]

Come back when there are NPCs in both pictures if the argument is about which one is more "lived in" LOL

It wouldn't make a difference. What's the point of adding 87345 npcs if there's no areas and assets for them to do their activities in. It's about how well those places are designed for what they are supposed to represent.

[Cheezits]

It wouldn't make a difference. What's the point of adding 87345 npcs if there's no areas and assets for them to do their activities in. It's about how well those places are designed for what they are supposed to represent.

Is the issue that there aren't a lot of houses and doors? Because the tree pic shows a ton of places for the elves to be doing stuff. I'm genuinely confused what is different between that and Norwington.

[Joshuaj]

And there's the rub. People wanted Red Suramar. They didn't do Red Suramar. Get over it.

TBC SMC and Eversong weren't designed as metropolises like Suramar and Boralus so when they did HD SMC and Eversong they kept to those design principles.

And even then, when Silvermoon was revamped, they had to redesign a lot of it to fit that metropolis design philosophy.

[Cheezits]

And even then, when Silvermoon was revamped, they had to redesign a lot of it to fit that metropolis design philosophy.

But it's not a city full of lots of houses with apartments and streets- it's an open city with very few buildings and primarily holes in the wall, which is what the existing half was in TBC. That is the biggest most pressing issue that has been discussed here over and over. Even the new area is open and wide. The urban sprawl people have been begging for since Legion/BFA just has not been addressed by devs outside of Azj'Kahet which seems to have been scrapped for whatever reason. Even the "Castle Ward" in Revendreth isn't very big.

Whatever the reason, it's not a priority. Probably because most players do not care (aka the dummy whales I mentioned before) and would just fly over it for a few weeks until they unsub until next content.

[Vakir]

Story has been shit for so long and gameplay is always changed and experimented on that good art was the standing pillar keeping it all together. Now that has slowly collapsed as well over the past couple expansions.

"Everything else is always bad, so the one thing perceived as usually good suddenly not being good enough to me is the worst part" is a wild take.

If I'm given a literal shit cake, I'm not gonna complain that the icing on it is too bland, unless I have a serious problem obsession with icing. Or an unhealthy obsession with Blood Elves, in this case.

It is still lowest on the list even if you're fixated on one race and aesthetic.

[Santandame]

Is the issue that there aren't a lot of houses and doors? Because the tree pic shows a ton of places for the elves to be doing stuff. I'm genuinely confused what is different between that and Norwington.

I have no horse in the Quel’thalas vs. Kul Tiras race but my point was that reducing Norwington Estate to nothing but a horse contest arena and a stable is completely disingenuous.

I can’t speak for the Midnight zones until I experience them on live. My argument is that not every zone is as detailed as the ones who came before. Personally I find that notion nonsense. As far as I’m concerned, Khaz Algar, Undermine aside, and Dragon Isles aren’t as detailed as Kul Tiras, Draenor, Zandalar, Broken Isles and Pandaria.

However, I’m not surprised with the stance of one person in the argument as whenever a new power hierarchy or entity is introduced which is more powerful than ones that came before, said person immediately stabs for them. So I’m not surprised they take that same stance with zones too, that each newer zone introduced is much better than ones that came before.

[Elronas16]

Your comparisons are nonsense. You compare infrastructure of a human nation forced into practicality and scavenging due to living in a harsh environment to a thousands years old, beauty valuing elven nation that used magic in everyday chores.

Well it surely does not look like something out of a thousands years old magical society. At leats not in modern design standards (it was good in 2007 though).

Not to mention that revamped Qual'thalas follows it's original design from BC. Like it was guaranteed it's gonna do.

And there's the rub. People wanted Red Suramar. They didn't do Red Suramar. Get over it.

TBC SMC and Eversong weren't designed as metropolises like Suramar and Boralus so when they did HD SMC and Eversong they kept to those design principles.

That's the problem exactly. Silvermoon and Eversong were not designed like that due to the technical limitation of that time, but that what they are and should represent. And this was the perfect oportunity to turn them into that. But they didn't. They kept 2007 world designs but with HD textures.

They have taken the absolute worst approach in regards to this overhaul. Kept the sizes and altered the artsyle. They should've kept the artstyle and enlarge the zone/settlements properly instead.

And it all comes down to less talented people working at Blizzard, now in the art department as well. I have no doubt in my mind that the people who worked on Legion and BFA would've made a glorious Quel Thalas but alas.

[Joshuaj]

But it's not a city full of lots of houses with apartments and streets- it's an open city with very few buildings and primarily holes in the wall, which is what the existing half was in TBC. That is the biggest most pressing issue that has been discussed here over and over. Even the new area is open and wide. The urban sprawl people have been begging for since Legion/BFA just has not been addressed by devs outside of Azj'Kahet which seems to have been scrapped for whatever reason. Even the "Castle Ward" in Revendreth isn't very big.

From what I saw in the city, there are some added estates, or at least buildings that serve as both houses and shops, etc. I'm sure a similar thing exists with Suramar as well.

Silvermoon does have its open areas, but it also has its enclosed spaces ontop of it, similar to how a real city has cluttered spaces and open areas (namely in their centers or parks, which Silvermoon actually utilizes).

Idk if this is a good example, but the Court of the Sun was completely changed from a palace-like area with a fountain in the center to a residential park area with an estate (Where Lor'Themar and Thalyssra live, namely), a smaller fountain, statues, and benches. Even the Royal Exchange moved locations, with it being right in-front of the Court of the Sun now, feeling far less imprisoning than in TBC.

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Well it surely does not look like something out of a thousands years old magical society. At leats not in modern design standards (it was good in 2007 though).





That's the problem exactly. Silvermoon and Eversong were not designed like that due to the technical limitation of that time, but that what they are and should represent. And this was the perfect oportunity to turn them into that. But they didn't. They kept 2007 world designs but with HD textures.

They have taken the absolute worst approach in regards to this overhaul. Kept the sizes and altered the artsyle. They should've kept the artstyle and enlarge the zone/settlements properly instead.

And it all comes down to less talented people working at Blizzard, now in the art department as well. I have no doubt in my mind that the people who worked on Legion and BFA would've made a glorious Quel Thalas but alas.

Funny you say this, cause the Eversong/Ghostlands area in Midnight is bigger than its TBC counterpart lol. Someone compared the sizes.

[Dracullus]

I can say that DF through Midnight ruined very little I cared about.

That's potential trap for future though. People don't care about Turalyon or Arator that much. But they cared about Sylvanas. And in TLT there is Illidan...