The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Joshuaj]

Or maybe it's gold during the day and purple at night.

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Putting Void in the Sunwell sounds so fucking dumb.

Gold in the daytime and Void-Blue at night would work, so long as the Voidstorm is gone from the skybox.

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Yeah, its no coincidence it sounds like it's going to be Azerite colors. Life and Death, Light and Void, both can be represented with Yellow and Blue. Not so much Chaos/Fel but definitely Yellow for Order.

Maybe Azeroth is Balance.

But yeah I think the new Dawnwell will not be dark at all, and the Moon/Shadow stuff will be Blue to not only mirror Azerite/Alndust but also as a throwback to the original Sunwell. And also because it would look really nice at night as opposed to purple crazy or super void.

Disorder can also utilize the energies of shadow. Even then, Sargeras is primarily covered in orange hellfire, so I'm sure the yellow can somewhat work.

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Yeah, its no coincidence it sounds like it's going to be Azerite colors. Life and Death, Light and Void, both can be represented with Yellow and Blue. Not so much Chaos/Fel but definitely Yellow for Order.

Maybe Azeroth is Balance.

But yeah I think the new Dawnwell will not be dark at all, and the Moon/Shadow stuff will be Blue to not only mirror Azerite/Alndust but also as a throwback to the original Sunwell. And also because it would look really nice at night as opposed to purple crazy or super void.

Yeah, Azeroth representing balance seems to be an overarching theme. Makes me wonder, what is she? Is she the last remnant of an entity that predates the First Ones? Is she the last prime remnant of a First One (Maybe there is an Element Progenitor we know nothing of yet, and this will be our reveal of said being)? Is she simply the Progenitors golden child?

Why would they hide her? And what's with the whole cradle vs worldcore thing?

[Vakir]

Yeah, Azeroth representing balance seems to be an overarching theme. Makes me wonder, what is she? Is she the last remnant of an entity that predates the First Ones? Is she the last prime remnant of a First One (Maybe there is an Element Progenitor we know nothing of yet, and this will be our reveal of said being)? Is she simply the Progenitors golden child?

Why would they hide her? And what's with the whole cradle vs worldcore thing?

All that stuff is way more interesting as a mystery, imo.

Every time they answer something they really muck it up. If the First Ones remain a thing I can be content if they are and remain exclusively some sky swirlies, but having their past interventions have a clear purpose or reveal is a nightmare waiting to happen.

And I don't mean my personal preference on them, lol, I mean it's Pandora's Box of potential retcons or continuity madness.

"Here's what the gods we can't communicate with left us. We know little else. It's our responsibility to protect/exploit/(whatever character moral alignment action) Her and nothing else is clearly defined." is a decent enough theme statement.

[Cheezits]

By the way, are they getting rid of raid renown? I haven't seen anything on beta about it. I hope not as I liked the rewards + progression system.

[milkmustache]

All that stuff is way more interesting as a mystery, imo.

Every time they answer something they really muck it up. If the First Ones remain a thing I can be content if they are and remain exclusively some sky swirlies, but having their past interventions have a clear purpose or reveal is a nightmare waiting to happen.

And I don't mean my personal preference on them, lol, I mean it's Pandora's Box of potential retcons or continuity madness.

"Here's what the gods we can't communicate with left us. We know little else. It's our responsibility to protect/exploit/(whatever character moral alignment action) Her and nothing else is clearly defined."

I completely agree with this, and feel the same way about Elune. Let Elune and Azeroth both be a mystery. Let different in game groups make their own interpretations of what they are, what they stand for, and so forth. Continue to write real grounded stories that use these higher powers as framework for motviation rather than literal direct conflict.

Believe it or not, we can and should still be able to fight an Orc or a Human as a raidboss without them being empowered by anything, but instead believing in it. IE, a fight against the Arathi Emperor where he is a powerful wielder of the Light because it's a basis of his belief and way of life, not because the Light gave him that powerful through some sort of agreement.

[Sondrelk]

By the way, are they getting rid of raid renown? I haven't seen anything on beta about it. I hope not as I liked the rewards + progression system.

Sure hope so. Definitely the best way they have come up with so far to keep players invested in raiding each week.

[Joshuaj]

All that stuff is way more interesting as a mystery, imo.

Every time they answer something they really muck it up. If the First Ones remain a thing I can be content if they are and remain exclusively some sky swirlies, but having their past interventions have a clear purpose or reveal is a nightmare waiting to happen.

And I don't mean my personal preference on them, lol, I mean it's Pandora's Box of potential retcons or continuity madness.

"Here's what the gods we can't communicate with left us. We know little else. It's our responsibility to protect/exploit/(whatever character moral alignment action) Her and nothing else is clearly defined." is a decent enough theme statement.

I think that's the general idea, and I am pretty sure TLT is gonna either further this ordeal a bit, or it's just gonna retcon the Progenitors, which I already explained my distaste for that idea.

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Either way, I'd be fine if we never actually saw anything regarding the Progenitors outside of "they exist, they left stuff behind, they're in a constant state of slumber, and we have to protect their design AKA the Cosmos and our world within it". Heck, Blizzard made it very clear from the start that us going to Zereth Mortis was never actually supposed to happen, or at least not that early. It only happened because Zovaal broke the rules.

Assuming we ever see anything regarding the First Ones in a more direct manner, I think it'll involve whatever Zovaal and N'Zoth feared, and that's assuming said plotline hasn't been scrapped, ofc.

[Nymrohd]

Sure hope so. Definitely the best way they have come up with so far to keep players invested in raiding each week.

Just keep it at 15 ranks, 14 weeks are enough.

[Sondrelk]

Just keep it at 15 ranks, 14 weeks are enough.

Definitely. Most players stop playing several weeks before that anyways.

[Vakir]

By the way, are they getting rid of raid renown? I haven't seen anything on beta about it. I hope not as I liked the rewards + progression system.

I hope they're back. I also think it's possible that if we don't, it's because it's a trifurcated tier. They'd be silly to scrap it since other than the mount or pet, it's pretty easy to make some thematic bonuses for a full sized raid.

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Either way, I'd be fine if we never actually saw anything regarding the Progenitors outside of "they exist, they left stuff behind, they're in a constant state of slumber, and we have to protect their design AKA the Cosmos and our world within it".

Hell, even if people had their own ideas about the design and wanted to deviate without being a villain, or even groups that worshipped a particular force (Path of the Titans in Cata was meant to be this lore wise!) opens a lot of doors for world building.

...if Blizzard ever lets some damn complicated conflicts happen again.

@milkmustache Agreed. Hell, even Garrosh being empowered was incidental for some background lore and cool mechanics. It was all him in terms of what the story was about.

[allegrian]

One has to assume that is where it is going.

Not sure why they are giving the perfect excuse for an underground expansion AFTER they just finished one, but I guess the developers really want to milk underground zones for a while.

That's because they took half or more from TWW and spread it into Midnight (Harandar) and TLT (actual titan and world soul plot). That's why we still need to have a reason to go underground (world soul) while the reason we were doing it in the first place in TWW was basically moved to the other expansions.

You could easily Remove base TWW and Undermine and just keep the DF-TWW tie in (harbinger quests) and Dalaran intro, then go directly to Kharesh (or skip it completely) and then direclty to Midnight. Basically, TWW is almost completely skippable lore wise. The only real, meaningful development we got from it was that Magni is normal again.

[Nymrohd]

You could easily Remove base TWW and Undermine and just keep the DF-TWW tie in (harbinger quests) and Dalaran intro, then go directly to Kharesh (or skip it completely) and then direclty to Midnight. Basically, TWW is almost completely skippable lore wise. The only real, meaningful development we got from it was that Magni is normal again.

I think that's probably because they just cut the original threat of TWW, the Black Blood. A TWW Harandar would probably have a sea of Black Blood surrounding the Rift of Aln

Btw regarding the Rift of Aln. We assume that either the Old Gods or the Titans stole Aln'ara (if she is Azeroth) from the Cradle. Why not assume that the Cradle is the roots of Elun'ahir, and the tree stole the world soul from its place first?

[Cheezits]

Actually, what if the Darkwell stuff went right into a pocket of Black Blood somewhere and juiced it hard?

[Nymrohd]

Actually, what if the Darkwell stuff went right into a pocket of Black Blood somewhere and juiced it hard?

Maria said Black Blood is cancelled.

[Ersula]

Maria said Black Blood is cancelled.

Only in relation to having a Whole Black Blood zone in 11.2 which was the plan before karesh. Given the way this saga was produced that means there's a high chance of it being a season in TLT. You should know by now nothing is every really cancelled in wow lore.

[Cheezits]

Maria said Black Blood is cancelled.

Maria said a lot of things, including no naga, when there are naga.

[allegrian]

What the hell have they done with MM hunter in beta? It's unplayable. They just did a complete MM rework for Kharesh which feels good.

[Joshuaj]

Actually, what if the Darkwell stuff went right into a pocket of Black Blood somewhere and juiced it hard?

The Midnight Blood!!! A mix between Black Empire Void and Cosmic Void!

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Imagine...

[Nymrohd]

What the hell have they done with MM hunter in beta? It's unplayable. They just did a complete MM rework for Kharesh which feels good.

Yeah MM is one of the real tragic cases. Fire, Resto shaman are the two others I often see quoted but MM is probably the worst because the rework was so recent and received very well.

[Joshuaj]

I feel like Xal'atath is using literally everything and anything from the Void, and praying to god it works LMAO

Like, low-key, she's probably desperate asf atm, playing with the Infinite possibilities and adaptations and whatnot.

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From the Player High Priest, to N'Zoth and the Black Empire, to the Nerubians, to the Dark Heart and Beledar, to the Black Blood, to the power of Dimensius, to the Darkwell and L'ura, to maybe the C'Thraxx underneath Zul'Aman, etc...

Damn, I just realized the Void doesn't fucking let up LMAO

[Cheezits]

Xal could also be working directly with or for Ula'tek if the Twilight Blade messing around there was supposed to be foreshadowing. Now that we know she is sending stuff underground, it may be to him.