The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[GeometryWizard]

Actually amusing writing.

Blizzard continues to do way better with the side stuff.

Actually, come to think of it, since Xal has actual charisma, Fyrakk is still an entertainingly mean 2D bad guy even if he's a terrible final boss, Denathrius is enjoyable... Is the modern issue isolated to heroes, especially lead ones?

That tends to be when the saccharine power of friendship/complete conflict aversion is most common.

Like, I'm digging Astalor's stuff. Feels like a different game.

I said it before but WoW has a bigger problem with the heroes being so boring and bland right now not the villains. The Jailer was so bad everyone obsessed over WoW's villains needing improved for years but not enough attention has been paid to the characters we're meant to like and sympathize with. We need heroes that have beliefs and meaningful differences they can disagree and banter over rather than a group of identical personality clones that look sad in cutscenes when something bad happens and tie everything back to family or doing something "together" dramatically

[Vakir]

We need heroes that have beliefs and meaningful differences they can disagree and banter over rather than a group of identical personality clones that look sad in cutscenes when something bad happens and tie everything back to family or doing something "together" dramatically

The version we do have in those examples is the side quest stuff, but I never see it translated into the broader story regardless of zone.

The go to example for me of absolutely anemic writing is DF, just a bad setting, and yet I feel the stuff with Veritistraz or the Malygos quests in Valdrakken are extremely strong. But neither are linked directly to their given zone's main quest, which are just kinda business as usual other than some OKish time shenanigans.

[Elronas16]

Its somehow even much worse. We welcome Void Elves into Silvermoon. With Silver Covenant.
What a mess.

Not sure which one is worse atp, getting a fugly visual overhaul and splitting it with the Alliance or just having it destroyed completely.

[Pyrophax]

Not sure which one is worse atp, getting a fugly visual overhaul and splitting it with the Alliance or just having it destroyed completely.

I'm not sure that we have only this 2 options.
How about Alliance just leave after they are done? Like Forsaken did from Gilneas or Horde from Amirdrassil?

[Vakir]

I've got good news. Due to it being an expansion capital, after all of this, the Alliance will be leaving - because EVERYONE will be leaving.

[Nibelheimy]

I can't help but feel maybe it's time to turn Blood elves, Void elves and Nightborne neutral.

I did think ateast Blood and Void elves neutrality could of been a possibility for this expansion. But maybe they're saving it a big playable character shakeup which I've plugged and discussed to death previously.

It would leave a rather gaping hole in the Horde side of things though. Night Elves at this point can never go neutral. So we'd need a good Horde replacement. Ogres please.

[Vakir]

I can't help but feel maybe it's time to turn Blood elves, Void elves and Nightborne neutral.

Despite the care bear complaints, I think it's even less likely to happen now. They've made it clear the political and ideological issues still exist and even the whole shared power well thing is out of the need for stabilization, not happy cooperation.

The most we're gonna see is the Horde kill on sight sliver to maybe go away. And as I said - it's gonna be a dead city in 1.5 years anyway. Could easily make it Horde only if an Alliance character isn't in Midnight Chromie Time.

[Joshuaj]

I found the Umbric and Rommath audio again, as good as the text is imo you need to hear the hilarious tone in their voices

Rommath: "Let's get this over with. Umbric, in light of all you have done for Silvermoon, I hereby return your research materials."

Umbric "It's Magister Umbric, actually. But it's good to be acknowledged. My old harmonio. You kept it?

Rommath" Well, a lot of work went into it, and you did earn it."

Umbric "My old workspace! Complete with nullification runes and enchantments! "

Rommath: " That desk was a menace. It kept eating magic items we left on it. "

Umbric "Wait, does this mean what I think it means?

Rommath "To show our gratitude for your aid, we... I... I'm awarding you this property as an embassy for the Rendori."

Umbric "You are actually letting us back into the city regularly? Willingly?

Rommath "I still do not approve of your research into the Void."

Umbric "You gave us our equipment back. That is literally you approving of what we do. You approve of me.

Rommath "I regret this already."

...Okay, maybe there is a bit of yaoi here LMAOOOOO

- - - Updated - - -

I've got good news. Due to it being an expansion capital, after all of this, the Alliance will be leaving - because EVERYONE will be leaving.

Going from high fantasy Silvermoon to sci-fi Ulduar (assuming that is the capital of TLT, ofc) is definitely a welcome surprise, to be sure.

Assuming it is the capital, and it's done right, Ulduar could just be a better version of Solution 9, low-key.

[Ersula]

I can't help but feel maybe it's time to turn Blood elves, Void elves and Nightborne neutral.

Nightborne hate the Night Elves with a firey passion.

Otherwise the High Elves are already Neutral: They just have a special classification for each version based on the faction they belong to.

Every day the elf topic is "How dare the horde be suspicious of the Alliance in their city" and "Silvermoon should leave the Horde entirely....by force." The latter justifying the former.

Maybe both sides can compromise either by shutting up, or their worldbuilding conniptions can give them a brain tumor.

[Joshuaj]

Solution 9 is a cool city in FFXIV, but I genuinely believe it was just too futuristic for many people's taste. Also kinda ruined the vibe of Dawntrail a bit.

[Vakir]

Ambivalent re: those two needing to get a room. But it's definitely better than Shaw and Flynn's whole schtick. But I am also biased because I hated Flynn as a character pretty much from the start.

Literally any banter at this point is an improvement.

Solution 9 is a cool city in FFXIV, but I genuinely believe it was just too futuristic for many people's taste. Also kinda ruined the vibe of Dawntrail a bit.

I like it, but is definitely jarring compared to, say, the contrast of Old Sharlayan and Rasz-at-Han.

The biggest Dawntrail problem for me was pacing and overexposure of a character I personally had no problems with on her own.

Still better than fucking Lyse. Or 85% of ARR.

[Nymrohd]

Nightborne hate the Night Elves with a firey passion.

? since when?

[Joshuaj]

Ulduar at least combines its futuristic stuff with gorgeous greek-inspired architecture (and therefore feels like it fits into the Warcraft setting). And if the Halls of Valor end up back at Ulduar (even if somewhat) in TLT, the city complex will have Norse stuff as well.

FFXIV has too many moments where I feel the sci-fi stuff low-key doesn't work with its setting (as much as it really tries, and I admittedly do like some of it, albeit on their own accord), and I do think that's unfortunate.

[GeometryWizard]

The version we do have in those examples is the side quest stuff, but I never see it translated into the broader story regardless of zone.

The go to example for me of absolutely anemic writing is DF, just a bad setting, and yet I feel the stuff with Veritistraz or the Malygos quests in Valdrakken are extremely strong. But neither are linked directly to their given zone's main quest, which are just kinda business as usual other than some OKish time shenanigans.

IMO they have separated the MSQ and sidequests too much it almost feels like two different settings in each zone. A big part of that problem is how they've made leveling so fast you barely have to do any sidequests to hit max level and that means the MSQ struggles to have any downtime or branching paths to naturally explore the characters a bit more since it's so laser focused on getting to the point of the zone plot. But if you sit down and do sidequests not only is it hard to tell what might be a questline that really should have been mandatory and what is comic relief filler but there's so many of them now you'll hit max level halfway through the second zone and that just pressures you to go finish the MSQ so you can do endgame content

It's to the point where it's like getting assigned to work on the MSQ is a punishment

[Ersula]

? since when?

Besides Tyrande being a see you next tuesday during the Nighthold storyline? Replaying the Nightborne Quests in Remix reminded me of how when the Nightfallen were expelled from Suramar City the Night Elves of Valsharah either turned them away or outright murdered them.

[Vakir]

It's to the point where it's like getting assigned to work on the MSQ is a punishment

"Oh no, Arator is about to talk."

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Besides Tyrande being a see you next tuesday during the Nighthold storyline? Replaying the Nightborne Quests in Remix reminded me of how when the Nightfallen were expelled from Suramar City the Night Elves of Valsharah either turned them away or outright murdered them.

I didn’t finish the whole suramar campaign in remix so Mabye I missed it but where does this happen? I don’t recall any night fallen in Valsharah where I did do all the quest.

[Vakir]

FFXIV has too many moments where I feel the sci-fi stuff low-key doesn't work with its setting (as much as it really tries, and I admittedly do like some of it, albeit on their own accord), and I do think that's unfortunate.

It was better when it was the Allagan stuff because it really elevates how it's a weird intersection of being ancient but also somehow high tech and it makes it more alien. There's also a lot more lore and background to justify how the sci-fi stuff works and it's more science fantasy.

The Sphene stuff bugs me moreso because it is the THIRD TIME we are confronted with a final zone city/plane built on some dark form of existentialism that meditates on death and grief with an owner that rules over it as a twisted facsimile of existence.

They can't just keep telling Shadowbringers over and over again, just like many are tired of FAMILY being overly focused in Warcraft.

[Ersula]

I didn’t finish the whole suramar campaign in remix so Mabye I missed it but where does this happen? I don’t recall any night fallen in Valsharah where I did do all the quest.

The Suramar sidequests with Absolon & Kel'danath talk about the Night Elves either turning them away when they were looking for help or actively hunting them. Turning away people suffering magic withdrawl is the Night Elves' whole deal, isn't it? (Farodin doesn't count because he is not a modern Night Elf, he is a Highborne Mage that follows the Valewalker philosophy that predates Druidism. It's kind of like an Atheist Druid.)

[Nymrohd]

The Suramar sidequests with Absolon & Kel'danath talk about the Night Elves either turning them away when they were looking for help or actively hunting them. Turning away people suffering magic withdrawl is the Night Elves' whole deal, isn't it? (Farodin doesn't count because he is not a modern Night Elf, he is a Highborne Mage that follows the Valewalker philosophy that predates Druidism. It's kind of like an Atheist Druid.)

Kel'danath only met Farodin. Never ventured into Val'sharah
I honestly cannot remember when that happens with Absolon? He never went far from Suramar given he was looking for his daughter. Where is any interaction with him that suggests he looked for help and was turned away?

And Farodin is not a Highborne. He predates the division of elven society.