The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Vakir]

Either way it goes with the Emperor, I am still waiting on a Dreadlord style reveal that's actually surprising and attached to an important character.

The closest thing we had was the Xal deception at Dalaran and it's a literal who character she's impersonating and it's for such a short time beforehand.

The Gallywix being Detheroc thing was a big stretch and I never bought it but at least it would have been something. Bonus points for the highlighted "D" in Undermine(d).

[Joshuaj]

I mean, hey I did say I wanted a Worldcore skybox Raid so I guess we're getting that maybe? A final clash underground near the most precious thing in the Universe is cool too if it plays out that way for 12.2.

The only way to upgrade from all of this would be a Sargeras boss fight or Sargeras focused raid in TLT.

That, and maybe showcase stuff with the Progenitors and what they intended for Azeroth. Maybe have Order direct the Titans, which would lead to the Titans stealing Azeroth and making the Worldcore, etc.

I just pray they don't retcon the Progenitors, cause I like them.

[huth]

The simplest villain scheme would be that the Emperor is secretly a Dreadlord. And he takes the opportunity of sending all the light users away to turn it into an empire of evil.

That seems like a rather silly scheme. Why turn on an empire that is already under your full control? Besides, we know that Dreadlords can turn Light-based organisations evil just fine.

[Limayria]

Tbh the idea of someone using renilash to send away political rivals to make a power play in the empire would be a good set up for an Arathi story arc I'd think.

[Joshuaj]

Please Blizzard, please...

Let the final chapter of the Worldsoul Saga include me battling Sargeras! You can make it work! Dimensius is the perfect example for it!

- - - Updated - - -

Phase 1: Avatar

Phase 2: Planet sized Sargeras!

Phase 3: Humanoid sized weakened Sargeras!

Heck, maybe make each phase a boss fight instead! A Sargeras themed raid would be perfect!

YOU CAN EASILY MAKE IT HAPPEN!!!

[Viridiel]

I can't really remember where we got to with the ascended nerubians. Did they ever figure out a way to actually break free of Xal'atath's control, or are they still liable to get mind-controlled at any point in time?

The prophecy of Renilash makes clear mention of "nightmares of legs and claws", which doesn't describe the Devouring Host whatsoever. If Renilash hasn't already happened (and isn't full of errors), Xal'atath is either going to re-enlist the ascended nerubians, bring along some of the horrifying creatures from K'aresh and the Voidstorm, or she's going to create new monsters while inside Azeroth.

My feeling is that the Devouring Host will become imbued with the Black Blood and be transformed into new creatures similar to the ascended nerubians and the Void creatures, hopefully including Xal'atath herself eventually. I think they have a great aesthetic which is distinct enough from the Old Gods and the Cosmic Void, and I think it's a satisfying enough way to make it so the events of the War Within weren't completely pointless. She learned the intricacies of the Black Blood and can now control it to empower herself and her army. I know Maria said no Black Blood in Midnight, but her answer was actually pretty well hedged and we've been told similar things countless times in the past which turned out to not be true. At some point we have to learn the lesson that the developers aren't going to talk about things that are happening several months down the line.

[Eldryth]

I can't really remember where we got to with the ascended nerubians. Did they ever figure out a way to actually break free of Xal'atath's control, or are they still liable to get mind-controlled at any point in time?

The one Ascended Nerubian who got mind controlled to attack us "got better" and showed up again with the Flame's Radiance. Seriously, that's the only explanation she gave us, though I assume that it's just because Xal'atath isn't bothering to focus on her anymore. I don't think there's been any other mention of Ascended Nerubians (apart from Nightfall enemies) outside of the launch campaign either.

I know Maria said no Black Blood in Midnight, but her answer was actually pretty well hedged and we've been told similar things countless times in the past which turned out to not be true. At some point we have to learn the lesson that the developers aren't going to talk about things that are happening several months down the line.

Whenever they make a comment like that, I always wonder if they're actually talking about the whole expansion or just the initial arc that they're advertising. Either interpretation seems fair to me, and being vague to avoid giving spoilers seems entirely fair to me.

I'm sure that they'll want to change up the Void forces for the post-launch content so that we're not fighting similar enemies again, given how distinct most raids tend to be from each other these days... but given that there's only one Dominaar boss, I don't actually know if the devs consider this to be the full-on Cosmic Void tier yet.

[Joshuaj]

I. Must. Fight. The. Dark. Titan.

[huth]

The one Ascended Nerubian who got mind controlled to attack us "got better" and showed up again with the Flame's Radiance. Seriously, that's the only explanation she gave us, though I assume that it's just because Xal'atath isn't bothering to focus on her anymore. I don't think there's been any other mention of Ascended Nerubians (apart from Nightfall enemies) outside of the launch campaign either.

Alternate option would be that she has to actively control them, which would make large-scale use unviable.

[Eldryth]

Alternate option would be that she has to actively control them, which would make large-scale use unviable.

That's what I meant- Y'tekhi is "free" only because (I assume) Xal'atath isn't maintaining the control anymore.

My guess is that it works like Harbinger from Mass Effect- she can assume direct control of any Ascended Nerubian any time she wants, and if they try to join the fight against her, it'll be a problem. But right now, they're not useful to her in anyway, so she doesn't care to actually use that power.

[Thros]

The only way to upgrade from all of this would be a Sargeras boss fight or Sargeras focused raid in TLT.

That, and maybe showcase stuff with the Progenitors and what they intended for Azeroth. Maybe have Order direct the Titans, which would lead to the Titans stealing Azeroth and making the Worldcore, etc.

I just pray they don't retcon the Progenitors, cause I like them.

I think Sargeras fight is a given at this point, especially with Dimensius test and success they can only up it more.

The first ones will start being revealed slowly once Azeroth stops signing with a muffled voice. Also, oracle speaking in one and thousands of truths at the same time that alone doesn't sound titanic in nature. I just don't see a retcon here no matter how much they may try to make sense of it, I just can't agree with it, especially with the "20 year plan ahead" slapping and shrinking the setting with titans who will be dealt with in some shape or form in less than 2 years.

[Limayria]

One of the texts during the quest at the sanctum of the sun mentions "mana balancing in lands beyond Azeorth" typo or are blood elves still working on outland or something?

[Alanar]

I. Must. Fight. The. Dark. Titan.

Please dont be like lower budy is stuck in the floor kinda model, like we had so many boss fights like this before.

That sucks.

[Joshuaj]

Please dont be like lower budy is stuck in the floor kinda model, like we had so many boss fights like this before.

That sucks.

I was thinking something like Dimensius, but obviously with a full body.

The Avatar of Sargeras could be Sargeras but maybe with Titan feet.

The Cosmic Sargeras stuff could maybe be Sargeras's true form, but with a Felfire or Hellfire astral effect around his lower body (Something akin to his Antorus appearance, but both more proper and mixed with the Dimensius Phase 2 treatment).

And the weakened Sargeras could be a more humanoid sized Sargeras with his demonic legs showing.

- - - Updated - - -

I think Sargeras fight is a given at this point, especially with Dimensius test and success they can only up it more.

The first ones will start being revealed slowly once Azeroth stops signing with a muffled voice. Also, oracle speaking in one and thousands of truths at the same time that alone doesn't sound titanic in nature. I just don't see a retcon here no matter how much they may try to make sense of it, I just can't agree with it, especially with the "20 year plan ahead" slapping and shrinking the setting with titans who will be dealt with in some shape or form in less than 2 years.

Assuming the Progenitors aren't retconned ofc.

But yeah, Dimensius was more than likely a test for a future Sargeras fight. No way it wasn't.

- - - Updated - - -



This is what I'm gonna play if we do end up battling Sargeras in TLT

[Bozzoltank]

Fighting Sargeras across two different fights would be absolutely fantastic. Conceptually, it's great, but I feel like they've yet to nail it (Deathwing and N'Zoth, cough cough).

I do find it difficult to imagine a fight against a fully-sized Sargeras. He is almost TOO big. Maybe the Titans are involved for the first Sargeras fight? Although we've no clue who the Pantheon will consist of towards the end of the Worldsoul Saga, or if the Pantheon even exists before the Sargeras fight. Maybe they all die, or we get a brand new Pantheon (and with the post-raid Eco-Dome Al'dani cinematic, I feel like they're aiming for K'aresh to enter the fold).

It feels like the best way to go about it is to go for the HUGE Sargeras first, and then end it on an Avatar-sized Sargeras for the Worldsoul Saga's final encounter.

[Nymrohd]

Full sized Sargeras is bigger than a planet . . .

[Bozzoltank]

Full sized Sargeras is bigger than a planet . . .

The entire Pantheon of Order is supposed to be planet-sized, but they're all Avatar-sized by the time we get to the Seat of the Pantheon. Sargeras could easily come down to their level if he had to, or more likely, if he was forced to. The latter is what I find the likeliest outcome if we do battle Sargeras in a raid encounter.

[Joshuaj]

Fighting Sargeras across two different fights would be absolutely fantastic. Conceptually, it's great, but I feel like they've yet to nail it (Deathwing and N'Zoth, cough cough).

I do find it difficult to imagine a fight against a fully-sized Sargeras. He is almost TOO big. Maybe the Titans are involved for the first Sargeras fight? Although we've no clue who the Pantheon will consist of towards the end of the Worldsoul Saga, or if the Pantheon even exists before the Sargeras fight. Maybe they all die, or we get a brand new Pantheon (and with the post-raid Eco-Dome Al'dani cinematic, I feel like they're aiming for K'aresh to enter the fold).

It feels like the best way to go about it is to go for the HUGE Sargeras first, and then end it on an Avatar-sized Sargeras for the Worldsoul Saga's final encounter.

If they don't want to do a total copy of the Dimensius stuff, I think 3 fights would work:

Boss 1: The Avatar of Sargeras- We begin our battle with Sargeras. He tests us, and we end up faring better than he expected. The phase ends with him getting tired of us, and going cosmic.

Boss 2: The Dark Titan's Wrath- Sargeras reveals his true cosmic form against us, and we have to battle both a powerful Dark Keeper, as well as a mighty Demon, all while the Titans are attempting restrain Sargeras before he can destroy Azeroth. The phase ends with us being infused with Azeroth's power and weakening Sargeras immensely.

Boss 3: Sargeras the Destroyer- Sargeras is weakened, and he is smaller. We can now battle him in a fair manner. Similar to Argus, the Titans possibly aid us (And maybe battle alongside us? Idk) and with both the power of the Titans and maybe Azeroth's worldsoul, the Dark Titan is finally defeated in a fight.

- - - Updated - - -

The entire Pantheon of Life is supposed to be planet-sized, but they're all Avatar-sized by the time we get to the Seat of the Pantheon. Sargeras could easily come down to their level if he had to, or more likely, if he was forced to. That's what I find the likeliest outcome if we do battle Sargeras in a raid encounter.

The Titans are the Pantheon of Order, not the Pantheon of Life. And even then, the Pantheon of Life stuff is speculation. For all we know, there are maybe only 2 or 3 Life Lords in the Life Realm.

- - - Updated - - -

I always liked the idea of each force having a different type of unique "leadership".

[Bozzoltank]

The Titans are the Pantheon of Order, not the Pantheon of Life. And even then, the Pantheon of Life stuff is speculation. For all we know, there are maybe only 2 or 3 Life Lords in the Life Realm.

- - - Updated - - -

I always liked the idea of each force having a different type of unique "leadership".

Blanked on the name, my bad! Mixed up Life and Order.

- - - Updated - - -

Honestly, a cosmic Sargeras trying to cleave a planet in half while we're desperately trying to dynamic fly away from it sounds kind of fun.

Make it akin to Star Augur Etraeus, where he takes us to different Legion nexus-worlds where we have to survive an onslaught of demons. Xoroth, Nathreza and Rancora could be fun!

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The entire Pantheon of Order is supposed to be planet-sized, but they're all Avatar-sized by the time we get to the Seat of the Pantheon. Sargeras could easily come down to their level if he had to, or more likely, if he was forced to. The latter is what I find the likeliest outcome if we do battle Sargeras in a raid encounter.

The rest of the titans are avatar sized in the seat because they are all just avatars when we see them with there body’s being destroyed by Sargaras.

Sargaras is the only full titan we see.