The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nokster10]

Considering the continent's seeming mysteries and whatnot, I don't think it's ruled by anything Titan related.

Based on the zero information you have?

[Ersula]

I do believe Iridikron is just a fool out for vengeance and destruction. He probably has a bone to pick with the Titans, and I'm sure we'll find out more in War of the Scaleborn later this autumn. I think he's being used by the Harbinger and Azshara. I think the Harbinger is "harbinging" Azshara's return to Azeroth. That's their pact right now. She's acquiring the tools needed. But what Azshara might not know is Xal'atath's true nature, and intentions.

But according to the note, everything Iridikron needs, he already has: He doesn't need Azshara or Xal'atath. The plan is ready to go, and the gurlies aren't contributing anything. Azshara & Xal'atath never had the means to do the plan because the Dragon Isles were locked away & they didn't have a way to travel through time. Maybe if Azshara or Xal'atath somehow brought the plan from Neltharian to Iridikron, they would be part of it, but as far as we know its entirely possible he discovered the plan on his own: Iridikron would have had contact with Neltharian way before Azshara did.

Plus if we're basing power-levels by how ancient a character is Iridikron is more powerful than Azshara and might even be much older & more powerful than Xal'atath. They've never established exactly how ancient Galakrond is and he & his children are constantly talking about "before" and "after" the Titans came as something they themselves experienced. So they're at least 150,000 years old: Literally older than recorded Azerothian history. Galakrond himself was a rival to the Old Gods, even though there's no lore talking about them interacting, besides his corruption being attributed to Yogg-saron.

Now that I wrote all this out another Time Travel expansion where we go back to primordial azeroth & have to fight to make sure the future we're from actually happens could be the direct result of the Dragonflight storyline. Aqir & trolls & Titans & The Black Empire & Dragons oh my

[Kiivar86]

Even tho it is most likely coincidental lol

Shit that was meant to go to my last post

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How would you guys feel about the Backside of Azeroth sharing a lot of South American or Indian-esc civilizations?

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Assuming the name is correct, the next expansion being called "Frontiers" or "Frontier" just feels right.

I'd be down for an Indian style, though honestly after the mention of a Innaria I've got my hopes set on some sorta Babylon/Mesopotamia setting since its similar to Innana.

[Hitei]

Assuming the name is correct, the next expansion being called "Frontiers" or "Frontier" just feels right.

Seems highly unlikely. Frontier of X, maybe.

[Ersula]

Seems highly unlikely. Frontier of X, maybe.

"World of Warcraft Frontiers" would give the public the more appealing impression that its an entirely new game, rather than just another expansion to a 20 year old game. Retail Wow seeming (and looking) like an entirely different game than wow classic seems to be the current marketing strategy.

[Cheezits]

If we need a completely new area I think it will be like this:

Avaloren- medieval/titan themed with Scarlets and Light

Tel'abim- completely reimagined into an arabian/persian/indian area, not just on name but but to address these themes that haven't been touched on yet

?????- Japanese themed with Ankoan

Based on the hints so far I think mystery Japan and/or Avaloren would be next, but I don't think it's safe to rule out Tel'abim appearing in some major way.

[Worldshaper]

But according to the note, everything Iridikron needs, he already has: He doesn't need Azshara or Xal'atath. The plan is ready to go, and the gurlies aren't contributing anything. Azshara & Xal'atath never had the means to do the plan because the Dragon Isles were locked away & they didn't have a way to travel through time. Maybe if Azshara or Xal'atath somehow brought the plan from Neltharian to Iridikron, they would be part of it, but as far as we know its entirely possible he discovered the plan on his own: Iridikron would have had contact with Neltharian way before Azshara did.

Plus if we're basing power-levels by how ancient a character is Iridikron is more powerful than Azshara and might even be much older & more powerful than Xal'atath. They've never established exactly how ancient Galakrond is and he & his children are constantly talking about "before" and "after" the Titans came as something they themselves experienced. So they're at least 150,000 years old: Literally older than recorded Azerothian history. Galakrond himself was a rival to the Old Gods, even though there's no lore talking about them interacting, besides his corruption being attributed to Yogg-saron.

Now that I wrote all this out another Time Travel expansion where we go back to primordial azeroth & have to fight to make sure the future we're from actually happens could be the direct result of the Dragonflight storyline. Aqir & trolls & Titans & The Black Empire & Dragons oh my

We see Iridikron stepping into a void portal with the artifact, where the Harbinger (presumably) awaits. So if anything it seems reasonable to assume that he has been acting on her behalf the entire time. She guides him towards the powers of the Void so that he might unlock the power to take on the Titans for himself, while he collects whatever it is that she needs. It's probably also likely that their goals align, since if the artifact he made can mess up the world-soul (or something along those lines), then that would provide a blow against the Titans and their plans. It might even be how he intends to lure them to Azeroth, by helping the Harbinger construct the artifact.

[Hitei]

"World of Warcraft Frontiers" would give the public the more appealing impression that its an entirely new game, rather than just another expansion to a 20 year old game. Retail Wow seeming (and looking) like an entirely different game than wow classic seems to be the current marketing strategy.

"Frontier" isn't just evocative of entirely new and exciting updated things simply because the very literal definition involves new things... The word is inextricably linked to historical "frontier". It makes people think of very old things and even the gimmicky new age iteration of "new frontier" (in space, technology, etc) comes across as retro and archaic, beacuse it was most heavily used in the ~60-80s

The public isn't gonna hear "World of Warcraft: Frontiers" and think "wow that sounds like an entirely new modern game" they're gonna think "what, did they add wagon trains and wild west stuff to that 20 year old game?". It'd literally do the opposite of suggesting to the general public that the game is going in some new direction. It sounds like they're adding Settlers of Catan as an expansion.

[Santandame]

I got my Legion expansion in Legion, yes.

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I'm sure we'll see more Japanese inspired things, but the Asian-influenced expac is Pandaria.

Asia is a big place, it isn’t just the far east. Also, Chinese and Japanese culture are not the same.

We haven’t had a landmass that is based on Arabia, India or Russia; let alone Japan.

A Japanese themed expansion would feel radically different to a Chinese/Mongolian one.

[Ersula]

"Frontier" isn't just evocative of entirely new and exciting updated things simply because the very literal definition involves new things...

You mean like World of Warcraft Rumble?

We see Iridikron stepping into a void portal with the artifact, where the Harbinger (presumably) awaits.

You could presume that: But why would you? It's just a kind of portal. This is the same reason people assume Azshara & Xal'atath are working together, but I don't think that's really something we should be assuming. Xal'atath's comments further suggest the ladder is true but its definitely not a "safe" assumption. The same void-style of portal is also used to take Void elves from Stormwind to an Asteroid, not to some Void Lord Stronghold. The style of portal is just supposed to suggest 1.) the variety of magic used to create it, and 2.) That it's to somewhere off-world. Regardless we shouldn't assume it's a doorway to the same location, especially since Alleria Windrunner keeps insisting using this kind of power doesn't mean you're working for the Void Lords.

She guides him towards the powers of the Void so that he might unlock the power to take on the Titans for himself, while he collects whatever it is that she needs. It's probably also likely that their goals align, since if the artifact he made can mess up the world-soul (or something along those lines), then that would provide a blow against the Titans and their plans. It might even be how he intends to lure them to Azeroth, by helping the Harbinger construct the artifact.

I think you need to re-read the note & rewatch the cinematic where Iridikron monologues the plan: The plan is,

1.) Fill the Artifact with the Essence of Galakrond
2.) The Filled Artifact will allow the Harbinger to travel from the deepest realms of the Deep Dark to Azeroth

Based on the description of the "window" at the bottom of Abberus, it allows communication into the deep Dark & the heart of the Void's sphere of influence. The actual traveling time will take a while, like when the Legion had to get here in Space Ships: its not like simply opening a portal. Then based on that, Iridikron's follow-up to that plan is,

3.) The Harbinger is an existential threat to Azeroth, per giving it over to the Void, so the Titans will return there.
4.) Kill the Titans

Here is where, if they're working together, Xal, Azshara & Iridikron's interest would diverge.

Xal'atath wants) End of plan. Void reigns over Azeroth.
Azshara wants) Usurp the Harbinger & the Void. Azshara reigns over Azeroth.
Iridikron wants) Kill the Harbinger. Destroy all Titan influence. Ancient Dragonkind reigns over Azeroth.

Seems to me if they all know about the plan, they wouldn't bother working together because they would almost immediately need to betray each other & they're all smart enough to know this.

[Santandame]

You said Japanese/Chinese expansion in Pandaria, completely not realizing that Pandaria was asian themed all around. TLDR: That theme was touched upon already.

No, Pandaria was Chinese/Mongol themed. Again, Asia is a huge continent with a massive variety of culture.

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That's my biggest hope, that Avaloren is inhabited by another branch of humans descended from vrykul who went there at some point and they built an Arthurian-like kingdom

I would prefer to see an Avalorien/Arthurian inspired continent for Avaloren too.

Let’s see the WoW versions of Merlin, Morgen Le Fay, Arthur, Camelot, the Holy Grail and the Round Table.

[Skildar]

By the way I just now realized that Iridikron steps into a void portal... does it mean that he still has infinite dragon allies to bring him back to our current timeline? If so, can they help him into avoiding mistakes and traps or save him from his death?

[huth]

No, Pandaria was Chinese/Mongol themed. Again, Asia is a huge continent with a massive variety of culture.

And at the time, China was still a big market for WoW which likely wouldn't have reacted to friendly to depicting Japan in a positive light.

[Ersula]

And at the time, China was still a big market for WoW which likely wouldn't have reacted to friendly to depicting Japan in a positive light.

You know China is also a big market for Final Fantasy XIV, a japanese game that did a Japanese themed expansion.

[Worldshaper]

You mean like World of Warcraft Rumble?
You could presume that: But why would you? It's just a kind of portal. This is the same reason people assume Azshara & Xal'atath are working together, but I don't think that's really something we should be assuming. Xal'atath's comments further suggest the ladder is true but its definitely not a "safe" assumption. The same void-style of portal is also used to take Void elves from Stormwind to an Asteroid, not to some Void Lord Stronghold. The style of portal is just supposed to suggest 1.) the variety of magic used to create it, and 2.) That it's to somewhere off-world. Regardless we shouldn't assume it's a doorway to the same location, especially since Alleria Windrunner keeps insisting using this kind of power doesn't mean you're working for the Void Lords.I think you need to re-read the note & rewatch the cinematic where Iridikron monologues the plan: The plan is,

1.) Fill the Artifact with the Essence of Galakrond
2.) The Filled Artifact will allow the Harbinger to travel from the deepest realms of the Deep Dark to Azeroth

Based on the description of the "window" at the bottom of Abberus, it allows communication into the deep Dark & the heart of the Void's sphere of influence. The actual traveling time will take a while, like when the Legion had to get here in Space Ships: its not like simply opening a portal. Then based on that, Iridikron's follow-up to that plan is,

3.) The Harbinger is an existential threat to Azeroth, per giving it over to the Void, so the Titans will return there.
4.) Kill the Titans

Here is where, if they're working together, Xal, Azshara & Iridikron's interest would diverge.

Xal'atath wants) End of plan. Void reigns over Azeroth.
Azshara wants) Usurp the Harbinger & the Void. Azshara reigns over Azeroth.
Iridikron wants) Kill the Harbinger. Destroy all Titan influence. Ancient Dragonkind reigns over Azeroth.

Seems to me if they all know about the plan, they wouldn't bother working together because they would almost immediately need to betray each other & they're all smart enough to know this.

The Void portal Iridikron steps through is either created by him or for him, and because Xal'atath (the Harbinger) is waiting for him on the other side, we know it's one of the two who did it. We also know that either Iridikron is seeking her, or she is summoning him. Either way, it means that they are working together.

Now, the dialogue between them on the other side could play out in different ways.

"Took you long enough... where is it? Good. Now I have no further use for you... *bzzzt*"

or

"My master, I have come with the artifact. Now, at last, we can carry on with the summoning."

or

"Wha- who the devil are you? What are you doing here? Is that...? What are you... AAARGHHHHH *poof*"

Anyway. Iridikron says this in the cinematic (looking at the artifact, just before stepping through the portal): "With this, the Harbinger will pry it from their hands. And when the Titans come to reclaim their prize, I will be waiting."

This just screams out to us that he's carried out her will by collecting the essence of Galakrond, and now he's going to give the artifact to her so that she might carry on with "prying Azeroth from the hands of the Titans". His goal is to face the Titans in-person, and presumably to kill them. Her goal is to pry the Titans' prize from their grasp.

Remember this line from A Song of the Depths: "The Harbinger speaks of a primal power that seeks the end of Order. Such rage can be bent to serve our ends." It's quite clear that Iridikron is being used as a pawn.

So they have separate goals but these goals align pretty well. It's a classic situation of two villains helping each other. Enemy of my enemy is my friend, etc.

So far, it seems we agree.

But then you go on to presume that their end goals are different from one another. Why?

Iridikron just wants to get back at the Titans. That's literally his entire schtick. He doesn't seek some kind of Elemental Azeroth. That's just what he led his followers and siblings to believe, so that they'd work with him. His goal is to destroy the Titans, and he's willing to do whatever it takes to achieve that goal. Just like Neltharion.

Azshara wants to rule, and Xal'atath is letting her believe that's what she's going to do. Heck, she might even intend for her to do so. N'Zoth once allowed Azshara to rule over her Empire, despite serving him.

[huth]

You know China is also a big market for Final Fantasy XIV, a japanese game that did a Japanese themed expansion.

Sure, but there they'd just look stupid complaining about it. And if there's one thing China doesn't want to do, it's look bad. It's more important than not being bad to them.

[Cheezits]

And at the time, China was still a big market for WoW which likely wouldn't have reacted to friendly to depicting Japan in a positive light.

Genshin says hello.

They went with Pandaria because there was nothing Japanese in Warcraft besides the Orc Blademasters, while there was a talking Panda race.

[Ersula]

By the way I just now realized that Iridikron steps into a void portal... does it mean that he still has infinite dragon allies to bring him back to our current timeline? If so, can they help him into avoiding mistakes and traps or save him from his death?

Actually that's an element I didn't take into consideration. Though while he's traveling through time the Bronze dragons should know exactly where he is: Considering how nonchalant the Bronze Dragons are at the end of the Dawn of the Infinite, Iridikron probably just took his portal to the entrance of the dungeon, which returns a person to the present.

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The Void portal Iridikron steps through is either created by him or for him, and because Xal'atath (the Harbinger) is waiting for him on the other side, we know it's one of the two who did it. We also know that either Iridikron is seeking her, or she is summoning him. Either way, it means that they are working together.

Xal'atath is not the Harbinger. Her return is at one point referred to as "a harbinger," which is just a colloquialism that means "a bad omen" but they're not the same thing. Why would Neltharian use a wormhole to communicate with someone whom, at that time, was already on Azeroth? Why would he design an artifact to bring someone to Azeroth if that person was already here when he made it? That doesn't make sense. Xal'atath & The Harbinger are two different entities.

Remember this line from A Song of the Depths: "The Harbinger speaks of a primal power that seeks the end of Order. Such rage can be bent to serve our ends." It's quite clear that Iridikron is being used as a pawn.

That note appears in game before Iridikron is even free from his prison. So you obviously shouldn't assume they're already talking about him. They're talking about the Harbinger.

If Xal'atath opened a portal on her own to leave Azeroth in BFA, why would it require an artifact or the power of Galakrond for her to come back? Why would her return to Azeroth convince the Titans to return, if she was already here when they left? These are all the reasons the "Xal is the Harbinger" theory makes no seanse.

[Fahrad Wagner]

"I want a Japanese expansion"

You got your Chinese/Japanese expac already I.E Pandaria.

I really hope you were kidding with that comment

[Fahrad Wagner]

It was very poor wording, but I stand by the fact that MoP is basically the expansion people are asking for in regards to very eastern Asian stuff (I.E Chinese, Mongolian, Japanese influence and whatnot). However, we could still see some more Japanese influence in the future. Anything is possible, although I wouldn't be shocked if the backside of Azeroth was more-so based off Indian influence or South American influence.

I think South American is likely, even though we've seen a tiny bit of that with Zandalar! But yeah purely-Japanese inspired would be greatly different from MoP which was a blend of many Asian cultures with a heavy emphasis on China. The fact that they removed the mention of the Ankoans on the new mount description... is fishy to say the least!