The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[SaintBigfoot]

Damn.

I'm not a housing player, but I'm VERY impressed with the implementation of the system.

It's a true time killer.

Good job Blizzard.

Don’t normally go for that sort of thing but I just spent two hours fixing mine up

[Santandame]

"The Jailor has super compelling reasons for everything"

"Can I see them?"

"They're SUPER compelling"

This is what you dick ride for my guy, zovaal had potential especially if the shadowlands were set up from the start to have been imperalized by the titans, with the mawsworn yelling at us about opposing the titans vision, but us being misled to see the mawsworn as simply being against the covenants. But they fumbled it completely

Never mind that Zovaal is one of the least charismatic villains ever, not just in wow but in anything. He's literally just Sargey 2 with the same exact "for the greater good" mentality and goals. But he lacks any charm or connection like we'd have had with the OG Big man himself

We at least have personal interactions with Xal and get to hang out while she and Alleria have weird sexually charged flirting time together

So, exactly the same as Xal’atath?

You both dick ride poor villains.

[Joshuaj]

So, exactly the same as Xal’atath?

You both dick ride poor villains.

I JUST SAID I DON'T DICKRIDE ZOVAAL! I JUST THINK HE LOOKS COOL!

Why y'all gotta do me like this?

[Vakir]

Besides, he said "comparing mid to trash" so I'm pretty sure that means comparing Xal to Zovaal.

Hence no longer seeming to dickride and also I'd agree Xal is mid (night) at this point.

[Santandame]

Besides, he said "comparing mid to trash" so I'm pretty sure that means comparing Xal to Zovaal.

Hence no longer seeming to dickride and also I'd agree Xal is mid (night) at this point.

She isn’t even mid. She’s bottom bin. Not a compelling character in the slightest.

[Limayria]

So, exactly the same as Xal’atath?

You both dick ride poor villains.

Xal is at least charismatic and built up, she's not just going off about how her reasons for what she's doing are so compelling but of course no one can tell you what those really compelling reasons are, even though you'd totally be convinced if you were told. But no one can tell you. For reasons

She's just an evil bitch who has entertaining homoerotic tension with Alleria; her dialogue on K'aresh was playful and characterized her pretty well as an actual master of manipulation, and I personally like traumatized control freak villains which Xal slots nicely into the mold of, if you're smart enough to read into literally any subtext

[Santandame]

Xal is at least charismatic and built up, she's not just going off about how her reasons for what she's doing are so compelling but of course no one can tell you what those really compelling reasons are, even though you'd totally be convinced if you were told. But no one can tell you. For reasons

She's just an evil bitch who has entertaining homoerotic tension with Alleria; her dialogue on K'aresh was playful and characterized her pretty well as an actual master of manipulation, and I personally like traumatized control freak villains which Xal slots nicely into the mold of, if you're smart enough to read into literally any subtext

Feel free to direct me to any evidence that implies she’s suffered some sort of trauma, because from what I’ve seen of her, there’s zero to suggest that.

I don’t consider her to be charismatic. In my opinion, she’s pretty one note. Based off of previous posts of yours; the reoccurring theme is you like the character because there’s some homoerotic tension there with Alleria, and I agree that is there. Thats a fair enough reason to enjoy her. But it doesn’t make her this excellent character work with layers of subtext. She’s still pretty bad as a compelling character.

[Limayria]

Feel free to direct me to any evidence that implies she’s suffered some sort of trauma, because from what I’ve seen of her, there’s zero to suggest that.

I don’t consider her to be charismatic. In my opinion, she’s pretty one note. Based off of previous posts of yours; the reoccurring theme is you like the character because there’s some homoerotic tension there with Alleria, and I agree that is there. Thats a fair enough reason to enjoy her. But it doesn’t make her this excellent character work with layers of subtext. She’s still pretty bad as a compelling character.

Being trapped in a dagger for thousands of years? Lol? lmao even? I'm also not trying to say she's amazing multifaceted character, but lots of people find her endearing with the way she loving calls us her "champion", the very literal way she holds up the letter but not the spirit of her deals. The fact she's a Palpatine style schemer desperate to always seem as if things are going according to her master plan but mostly improvising as shit goes south while being clever enough to make it work out in the end

[Santandame]

Being trapped in a dagger for thousands of years? Lol? lmao even? I'm also not trying to say she's amazing multifaceted character, but lots of people find her endearing with the way she loving calls us her "champion", the very literal way she holds up the letter but not the spirit of her deals. The fact she's a Palpatine style schemer desperate to always seem as if things are going according to her master plan but mostly improvising as shit goes south while being clever enough to make it work out in the end

Has Xal’atath shown any character traits whatsoever since being freed from the dagger that implies she’s suffered trauma from being in the dagger? That would actually be some fun, compelling characterisation to explore - but there’s literally been zero of that. So despite what you say, I’m lot seeing this traumatised control freak of a character. She’s a Saturday morning cartoon villain. “Lots of people find her endearing with the way she lovingly calls us “champion””. That’s oddly specific and niche. Are the lots of people in the room with us?

Comparing her to Palpatine in the level of their schemes is the true “lol, lmao even” at hand here. There was no desperation on Palpatine’s part at all. There was no pretending that everything was always going to plan for Palpatine whilst constantly improvising (though I don’t even see any of that for Xal, it’s like you’re adding all of this in yourself. She was pretty fucking pissed when we stopped her at the Beledar, and when the Ethereals stole the Dark Heart) Quite literally everything went to plan for Palpatine exactly how he planned it. The only thing to go “awry” for him was Obi Wan defeating Vader on Mustafar, which ultimately played into his favour even more. Nothing ever went south for him. Unless you count him being thrown down into the Death Star’s core.

[Lady Atia]

Has Xal’atath shown any character traits whatsoever since being freed from the dagger that implies she’s suffered trauma from being in the dagger? That would actually be some fun, compelling characterisation to explore - but there’s literally been zero of that. So despite what you say, I’m lot seeing this traumatised control freak of a character. She’s a Saturday morning cartoon villain. “Lots of people find her endearing with the way she lovingly calls us “champion””. That’s oddly specific and niche. Are the lots of people in the room with us?

Comparing her to Palpatine in the level of their schemes is the true “lol, lmao even” at hand here. There was no desperation on Palpatine’s part at all. There was no pretending that everything was always going to plan for Palpatine whilst constantly improvising (though I don’t even see any of that for Xal, it’s like you’re adding all of this in yourself. She was pretty fucking pissed when we stopped her at the Beledar, and when the Ethereals stole the Dark Heart) Quite literally everything went to plan for Palpatine exactly how he planned it. The only thing to go “awry” for him was Obi Wan defeating Vader on Mustafar, which ultimately played into his favour even more. Nothing ever went south for him. Unless you count him being thrown down into the Death Star’s core.

I mean, isn't she basically the void's version of the silver surfer? And after that she was a dagger for some time, yee.

[Santandame]

I mean, isn't she basically the void's version of the silver surfer? And after that she was a dagger for some time, yee.

She was known as Dimensius’ herald, right? There’s no actual story pointing towards that she’s the Void version of the Silver Surfer, that’s just one of the many fan made concepts this forum thread seems to run with. Again if I’m wrong point it out and I’ll hold my hands up.

Again, with the being a dagger for x amount of years. What characterisation has there been during her screentime that delves into her alleged trauma? None. She’s been having a gay old time since leaving the dagger. She’s shown no traits of suffering from trauma of any kind. Compare that to Anduin. It’s just people filling in the blanks on what they want for the character; not it actually being shown to us.

[Timester]

She was known as Dimensius’ herald, right? There’s no actual story pointing towards that she’s the Void version of the Silver Surfer, that’s just one of the many fan made concepts this forum thread seems to run with. Again if I’m wrong point it out and I’ll hold my hands up.

In the Midnight Beta pretty much confirms that she was once a mortal. So, yes, she was turned into Dimensius' Silver Surfer.

Now, if she was a mortal, why she is so focused on Dark Naaru?

[Santandame]

In the Midnight Beta pretty much confirms that she was once a mortal. So, yes, she was turned into Dimensius' Silver Surfer.

Now, if she was a mortal, why she is so focused on Dark Naaru?

Right, but just because she was a mortal that then served as Dimensius’ herald, that doesn’t also mean it comes with the rest of the Silver Surfer’s character. IE she made a deal with Dimensius to sacrifice herself to become his herald to protect her planet. People are either assuming or just making stuff up.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

In the Midnight Beta pretty much confirms that she was once a mortal. So, yes, she was turned into Dimensius' Silver Surfer.

Now, if she was a mortal, why she is so focused on Dark Naaru?

She needed Alleria to get to the Voidspire and confront Xal'atath only for Xal'atath to enact the plan of "shocker" removing the Dark Naaru from her and then get that Dark Naaru to the Sunwell so it could turn into voidy delight so she could use the leylines of Azeroth to travel to the Manifold.

To be fair out of everything about this stupidity I think the fact everyone forgot about the Dark Naaru absorption and no one brought it up was kind of the one time I give props to Blizzard for being good enough to clock the community at not being 100% awake in class. (Now that blade..)

[Limayria]

Has Xal’atath shown any character traits whatsoever since being freed from the dagger that implies she’s suffered trauma from being in the dagger? That would actually be some fun, compelling characterisation to explore - but there’s literally been zero of that. So despite what you say, I’m lot seeing this traumatised control freak of a character. She’s a Saturday morning cartoon villain. “Lots of people find her endearing with the way she lovingly calls us “champion””. That’s oddly specific and niche. Are the lots of people in the room with us?

Comparing her to Palpatine in the level of their schemes is the true “lol, lmao even” at hand here. There was no desperation on Palpatine’s part at all. There was no pretending that everything was always going to plan for Palpatine whilst constantly improvising (though I don’t even see any of that for Xal, it’s like you’re adding all of this in yourself. She was pretty fucking pissed when we stopped her at the Beledar, and when the Ethereals stole the Dark Heart) Quite literally everything went to plan for Palpatine exactly how he planned it. The only thing to go “awry” for him was Obi Wan defeating Vader on Mustafar, which ultimately played into his favour even more. Nothing ever went south for him. Unless you count him being thrown down into the Death Star’s core.

Palpatine is literally desperate a lot, like in episode 3 when they're crashing the ship after killing dooku, he has no way out with out blowing his cover and ruining his plan even though he very well might die then and there, or the fives clone conspiracy episodes in clone wars, or the zillo beast episode. He's just extremely good at projecting he's in control, and very good at adapting as he needs to. Hell even in episode three he knew he was about to be discovered so makes a desperate bid that he can convince Anakin only he can save Padame in the hopes that it'd be enough to have Anakin protect him from the Jedi. Which is very nearly isn't. If mace windu had been 5% less of an absolute piece of shit to Anakin at any time in his life palps would have been done for in ep3. Was palps more well written than Xal? Of course, but both had a nice mix of clear long term goals and the smarts to adapt on the fly to always come out on top


You're acting like it's impossible to read subtext from characterization, she would never willingly show weakness because that goes against the voids whole thing. But her whole vibe is "I'm scared and hurt and gonna consume everything so I'm powerful enough to never be scared again"


And once again this is just me expressing my personal like for the character you can see totally different things, but imo the subtext is more than enough for me personally. Hell even her whole homoeroticism with Alleria is really compelling in a sense of she feels kinship with Alleria; it made way more sense before the lines about Xal becoming Dimensius's herald to spare her homeworld were cut ofc but that still makes sense for her characterization. She offers her freedom to save the people and planet she loves, then she makes a deal with the K'areshi to destroy Dimensius for her freedom. They fail; which ties into her persistent anxiety of being controlled by him again. She's going around scheming seeking a way to become powerful enough to ensure she's never controlled again; tries to make a deal with the old gods, gets imprisoned in the dagger and then takes on her whole "I'll help you.. for a price" schtick manuevering to eventually get free.

Ofc it's kinda a mess, wows writing is a mess but Xal is interesting enough with enough hints about what's going on with her that it's good enough. Who do you think is a better wow villain? Incel nepo baby Hitler? Mr "oh wait I could blow up the world whenever I forgor teehee" death wing? "All according to keik" Wotlk Arthas? "The villain bat swings for thee" for all the TBC characters?

Even Denathrius just had people simping because he had a big strong "daddy" voice and told me to fall to their knees lmao


The best parts of warcrafts writing have always been filling in the blanks of the hype moments and aura, and Xal has enough aura to make her fun, and enough interesting tidbets about who she is and how she acts that we can piece together some interesting shit.i mean I'm still a Xalleria truther and think Xal will have a redemption arc built from that core so I'm clearly off the deep end huffing copium. But at the end of the day I think it's crazy to act like Xal isn't at least upper middle of the pack for wow villains, especially when many of the other characters people like more such as Lei Shen have way less exposure

[Nymrohd]

Even Denathrius just had people simping because he had a big strong "daddy" voice and told me to fall to their knees lmao

Denathrius was excellently voice acted. It is not the deep voice, it is the camp sensibility, the dramatic flair. And he got a great raid and good cinematics. Plus the advantage of being graded on a curve since together with Ve'nari they were just leagues above everyone else in SL
Xal is kind of underplayed. It doesn't work in gaming imo.

[Joshuaj]

Is it build time yet?

[Vakir]

She isn’t even mid. She’s bottom bin. Not a compelling character in the slightest.

It's relative to the comparison. Illidan and co.'s sudden pivot and lack of motivations came out of nowhere, Arthas was ruined and turned into an 80s Morning Cartoon Villain, Deathwing kind of forgot he could end the world and had all of his intrigue from WC2 stripped in favor of MADNESS!!1, WoD was a mess, but obviously Garrosh and the Legion range from amazing to good respectively.

So yeah, I'd say mid. When you're flooded with 5-6/10s, frustrating writing failures like TBC and post-BFA Sylvanas, followed by absolute nothings like Fyrakk or Zovaal, a disappoinment that has charisma and a decent design, plus started out interesting in Legion, will still fall somewhere towards the mean.

That’s oddly specific and niche. Are the lots of people in the room with us?

I mean, I don't give a fuck about specific things like calling us champion, but you're delusional if you don't think people were really interested in the potential of this character in Legion and BFA and if she wasn't extremely charismatic.

It's like Denathrius. He has absolutely no end game we're aware of that wasn't Zovaal's garbage storyline, but people want to see him again because he has a fun performance and has charisma. Both are not bottom shelf because every villain that hasn't been Garrosh and Arthas are always surface level Potential Men/Women.

Even N'zoth was a wet fart after 4 expansions of background build.

[Xilurm]

Is it build time yet?

Why are you expecting this one so much? What's in it?

[Vakir]

Why are you expecting this one so much? What's in it?

Nobody knows anything, just impatient like most people when we want a build.

The most we know is dungeon testing and a decent shot at elf exteriors.