The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Sondrelk]

I happen to agree with you but I think its a bit of an interesting debate.

I totally get the appeal of completely explorable open world spaces. But in the same breath, I can see how having unique instance areas allows for more creativity.

Looking back at vanilla you have stuff like SFK and Karazhan where they have an open world approximation but actual instances are much more elaborate. Then you have something like ZG where its instanced but has a 1:1 open world counterpart even if you can't explore it by traditional means. The former are definitely more memorable and unique so I think there might be something to the idea that not everything has been fully represented in game.

Worst for me is either the TBC route, where the areas are technically explorable, but looks nothing like what the inside of the dungeon does. Or even more annoying, places like the Shrine of the Storms, which is plainly visible and fully decked out with all kinds of interesting stuff. But the game doesnt let you go there.

Honestly, if you want an outdoor dungeon, then make the area properly. And if you don't, then ensure the area is cordoned off so you don't get pulled out of it wondering why you can't just go there normally.

[Joshuaj]

So, Umbric confirmed Dimensius is dead, and I imagine that means his essence was drained VIA the Dark Heart being drained to create the Voidstorm and Voidspire.

If this is true, then uhm...

How does it feel to have less build up and character than Zovaal, Mr. All-Devouring?

[milkmustache]

How does it feel to have less build up and character than Zovaal, Mr. All-Devouring?

I don't know if I particularly agree with this. While not necessarily being expected for 12.2, Dimensius was on the general radar of probable boss in the WSS given the context of his involvement with the Ethereals, the Shadowguard and K'aresh dating back to TBC. Zovaal was contextually contained to a single expansion cycle, from the expansion reveal to the final raid. BUT, fighting and killing Zovaal felt a lot more deserved than fighting and killing Dimensius.

All this to say, man I hope they don't whiff the eventual Xal'atath fight.

[Joshuaj]

I don't know if I particularly agree with this. While not necessarily being expected for 12.2, Dimensius was on the general radar of probable boss in the WSS given the context of his involvement with the Ethereals, the Shadowguard and K'aresh dating back to TBC. Zovaal was contextually contained to a single expansion cycle, from the expansion reveal to the final raid. BUT, fighting and killing Zovaal felt a lot more deserved than fighting and killing Dimensius.

All this to say, man I hope they don't whiff the eventual Xal'atath fight.

He was mentioned once and had almost no direct or in-direct presence outside of the 11.2.7 lorewalking questline (which recapped events from TBC).

Prior to that, there was an item that name dropped him, Xal'atath hyping him up in a whisper during Legion, and the TBC stuff.

Zovaal had a whole patch dedicated to him collecting the sigils, he had a direct and indirect presence in all of 9.0, he was somewhat built up akin to Dimensius during Legion and BFA, and he at least was there lmaooo. He wasn't at all well written or well characterized, but he was still there.

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Glad we both agree in saying facing Zovaal felt more deserved though.

[Kiivar86]

So this is a dumb question but I noticed in my client I have access to PTR (Midnight) and I do not remember it being there last time I logged in a few days ago. That's not beta access, right? I'm just really unobservant and missed it being there before or something, yeah?

So, Umbric confirmed Dimensius is dead, and I imagine that means his essence was drained VIA the Dark Heart being drained to create the Voidstorm and Voidspire.

If this is true, then uhm...

How does it feel to have less build up and character than Zovaal, Mr. All-Devouring?

Build-up wise, guy at least had more build-up I'd say. At the least, his build up included something not from the expansion he debuted in. Specifically, Voidsong, Stave of the Harbinger being added in Dragonflight.

It ain't much, but its something! Character, well, can't really say anything there. Neither really had character.

[Joshuaj]

So this is a dumb question but I noticed in my client I have access to PTR (Midnight) and I do not remember it being there last time I logged in a few days ago. That's not beta access, right? I'm just really unobservant and missed it being there before or something, yeah?



Build-up wise, guy at least had more build-up I'd say. At the least, his build up included something not from the expansion he debuted in. Specifically, Voidsong, Stave of the Harbinger being added in Dragonflight.

It ain't much, but its something! Character, well, can't really say anything there. Neither really had character.

If that's the case, I can argue Zovaal was built up since BFA at least. His name wasn't dropped, but there was definitely stuff leading up to him.

[Kiivar86]

If that's the case, I can argue Zovaal was built up since BFA at least. His name wasn't dropped, but there was definitely stuff leading up to him.

True. I honestly do forget that he didn't just pop into existence in Shadowlands.

God, what a nothing entity he was. He just slides off my brain.

[Joshuaj]

True. I honestly do forget that he didn't just pop into existence in Shadowlands.

God, what a nothing entity he was. He just slides off my brain.

That's what happens when COVID, walk outs, and sacrificing writing for hype moments and aura gets in the way.

[Count Zero]

So this is a dumb question but I noticed in my client I have access to PTR (Midnight) and I do not remember it being there last time I logged in a few days ago. That's not beta access, right? I'm just really unobservant and missed it being there before or something, yeah?

It just showed up for me today as well. It auto installed even, not sure what's up with that. At first it wouldn't let me log in, saying I need a valid license (I guess 'cause I don't have Midnight). I hit the Reconnect button and I got to a realm list but they're all offline.

I can't recall beta ever being labeled as PTR. I also can't recall an expansion PTR being available this early, but I wouldn't be a good source on that. This seems strange.

[Kiivar86]

It just showed up for me today as well. It auto installed even, not sure what's up with that. At first it wouldn't let me log in, saying I need a valid license (I guess 'cause I don't have Midnight). I hit the Reconnect button and I got to a realm list but they're all offline.

I can't recall beta ever being labeled as PTR. I also can't recall an expansion PTR being available this early, but I wouldn't be a good source on that. This seems strange.

Didn't auto-install for me at least. But yeah I don't recall it being labeled as PTR before but I can't figure out what else it could be.

[Khaza-R]

If that's the case, I can argue Zovaal was built up since BFA at least. His name wasn't dropped, but there was definitely stuff leading up to him.

Unfortunately that was his biggest issue though. He should of been in BfA taking credit. Shit was so vague in BfA people weren't sure if he was Mueh'zala or that wasn't just a persona of his. There would of been a totally different reception of Zovaal if he started showing his hand in the events of Legion and BfA rather than trying to obnoxiously attribute him to stuff back in The Frozen Throne.

When it comes to Dimensius, he really got vindicated in my opinion. He was a questing mob that got turned into a high-level stellar threat. Sure we could of expected more from the concept of "Void Lords" themselves but in terms of a specific character I don't think he was really mistreated.

[Cheezits]

Dimensius was handled fine, considering they felt like limiting the importance of the Void Lords. Likely because as a concept they were too redundant.

Whatever Xal is doing is more interesting than a council of Void Gods (which is too close to the Pantheon and Eternal Ones), and so is the idea that that all kill and eat each other IMO. They existed, but we weren't there to see it, and it took a bunch of wackiness and a super powerful macguffin to kill the last one.

The crazy dark forces shouldn't have a council IMO, as it goes against what they represent. Hence why it took a Titan to order the Demons, the Eternal Ones are all robot installations, and the Void ones kill and eat each other in a competition that extends down to even base void races (domanaar).

[Khaza-R]

I wonder if Xal will continue into TLT. It seems like she has to meet her end at 12.2 but at the same time it does feel like the entire saga is really about her at this point. I just wonder in what capacity her character could continue to exist in the TLT story

[Viridiel]

There was a datamine of soundfiles. here
https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...-2/595213/2594

I did miss those, but I'm not seeing anything to indicate that it would be a renown. I've heard the sound files myself for around the blessing of the Dawnwell, but those were nowhere to be seen, so I guess if it's real then it happens separately. I'm a bit confused by the timeline, to be honest. It also reads terribly but I'm going to put that down to the total lack of punctuation rather than assuming it's fake. That said, I'm a big Sunreaver apologist so I don't really care for it being "we both did bad things, let's form a compact regardless of the fact that we still hate each other". Hopefully the stuff with the Purged of Dalaran makes me feel a bit better about it, considering the recent retcon in Chronicle which makes Aethas directly responsible for the actions leading up to Jaina and Vereesa's hideous overreaction (to be fair, I blame Jaina a lot more than Vereesa who is consistently portrayed as naïve and manipulable).

If they do kiss and make up (which I want, just not the way it's written there), I could potentially see them coming back in the future to work together to right wrongs. TLT is a good opportunity for them to show up in Crystalsong Forest. I don't think the Kirin Tor explicitly did anything too damaging to the forest, but the elves did at least bring more chaos to the area when they hijacked highborne ruins filled with angry ghosts. Maybe they need to make up with the highborne spirits and help to cure the area. I don't think it'll be a renown, though, because I'm a big believer in the whiteboard leak showing Thraegar, Earthen Ring, Valdrakken Accord, and Argent Crusade as the renowns, and I don't really see where it would fit into Midnight. Possibly as an additional, nonconventional renown?

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Right, but outside of the endgame campaign the High Elves are pretty insignificant to Midnight questing, so why not call it bloodelf? There's definitely an implication that High Elves matter a bit more than expected through the whole expansion- possibly even making them playable, so Silvermoon has multiple kinds of playable elves.

It's called silvermoonelf because some of those icons are clearly high elf styled, and some are clearly blood elf styled. I don't see the same implication you do, just someone choosing an appropriate name for the icons the art team placed in front of them.

[Cheezits]

I wonder if Xal will continue into TLT. It seems like she has to meet her end at 12.2 but at the same time it does feel like the entire saga is really about her at this point. I just wonder in what capacity her character could continue to exist in the TLT story

I think she will either exist in a small form (maybe the corruption hurting the world soul has her voice?) or will die after she does enough damage the titans are called. There are too many cooks to juggle with the Pantheon, Keepers, Aspects (+Iridikron) and Illidan for her to get any real focus.

Would be fun if she persists in some sentience in the Worldsoul Corruption but the very end of TLT is Sargeras wiping her out.

[milkmustache]

He was mentioned once and had almost no direct or in-direct presence outside of the 11.2.7 lorewalking questline (which recapped events from TBC).

Prior to that, there was an item that name dropped him, Xal'atath hyping him up in a whisper during Legion, and the TBC stuff.

Zovaal had a whole patch dedicated to him collecting the sigils, he had a direct and indirect presence in all of 9.0, he was somewhat built up akin to Dimensius during Legion and BFA, and he at least was there lmaooo. He wasn't at all well written or well characterized, but he was still there.

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Glad we both agree in saying facing Zovaal felt more deserved though.

I also agree that Dimensius in TWW was relatively... bland. Just like all of K'aresh, honestly. It feels like it was more treated as a way to close a plot hole, as they needed Xal to become the Void's big bad.

You're right to say that Zovaal's involvement in all of Shadowlands was pretty consistent, and I think that is slightly redeeming of him in a sense. I don't love the story of Shadowlands or the narrative impact it brought, but he himself had potential and still had much more of a presence. I'm hesitant to really give credit to the Legion and BFA build up because it seemed to be going another place with Sylvanas and the Val'kyr in Legion, and BFA never really jumped right to Zovaal for me in retrospect.

But still, at least they commited to him rather than the rabbit out of a hat act with Dimensius. I'm still disappointed in what K'aresh was, though I fully understand it.

EDIT: Ironically, I think they're opposite sides of the same coin. Dimensius/K'aresh relied too much on the narrative positioning in the WSS, which made it feel shortsighted and side questy and didn't really land a proper build up, whereas Zovaal/Shadowlands executed a build up in plot extremely well, only with a plot that a lot of the playerbase felt was outside of the narrative.

[Limayria]

I wonder if Xal will continue into TLT. It seems like she has to meet her end at 12.2 but at the same time it does feel like the entire saga is really about her at this point. I just wonder in what capacity her character could continue to exist in the TLT story

As this threads #1 Xalleria truther you know my answer

I think her big thing is going to be realizing that after we beat her the only way to accomplish her goals (stopping the titans? Petty "if I can't have the world soul no one can"? Hard to say atp) is by working with us, trying to recruit us to be "her champion" once again

Maybe she'll set us up with Iridikron once we realize the titans are going to try and reorigination beam us to death

[Ersula]

I also agree that Dimensius in TWW was relatively... bland. Just like all of K'aresh, honestly. It feels like it was more treated as a way to close a plot hole, as they needed Xal to become the Void's big bad.

That's probably the biggest factor to why they're formally sundowning the void lords & old gods. The eldritch beings are categorically hard to characterize. What personality to we ascribe to a big purple void?

[Cheezits]

That's probably the biggest factor to why they're formally sundowning the void lords & old gods. The eldritch beings are categorically hard to characterize. What personality to we ascribe to a big purple void?

I honestly think they are bringing the old gods back. TWW had their blood, Midnight adds some more lore to the Nightmare + some hints about how Yogg and Yshaarj used it, and we're building up to an eventual reappearance of N'zoth.

But they are coming back because they are characters attached to Azeroth with actual personalities- unlike Dimensius.

[Ersula]

I honestly think they are bringing the old gods back. TWW had their blood, Midnight adds some more lore to the Nightmare + some hints about how Yogg and Yshaarj used it, and we're building up to an eventual reappearance of N'zoth.

But they are coming back because they are characters attached to Azeroth with actual personalities- unlike Dimensius.

If they do they'll suddenly have humanoid forms like Xal & the Incarnates. Personally I expect they might turn random unrelated things into old gods, as the black blood stuff suggests injecting anything with the Black Blood basically turns it into an old god.