The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

Its' just not very likely that we ever fix the characterization issue or the direction issue. The post-conceptualization of Narrative content is at the end of the day on such a rapid treadmill with minimal support that it obviously leads to the outcome that everything is mostly just potential lost rather than anything gained.

Certainly, I think the decision of nuking all Void for the purpose of elevating a unhinged Xal'atath is perhaps a good idea if they deliver on whatever happens next and or whether she dies or she continues to exist post-Manifold events. Perhaps if nothing else in this disaster class of just narrative team rejection of audience investment decisionmaking thats' honestly really the only elevatory element to take away from this.

They've certainly narrowed things down and if everything is in preparation for a less cosmically charged environment that could only be a sign of a much more interesting playspace than the one where we expand outwards until we hit nonsensical philosophical drivel that should've always been kept as musings of the most unhinged lore speculationists, anyways.

[Super Dickmann]

Its' just not very likely that we ever fix the characterization issue or the direction issue. The conceptualizaiton of Narrative content is at the end of the day on such a rapid treadmill with minimal support that it obviously leads to the outcome that everything is mostly just potential lost rather than anything gained.

Certainly, I think the decision of nuking all Void for the purpose of elevating a unhinged Xal'atath is perhaps a good idea if they deliver on whatever happens next and or whether she dies or she continues to exist post-Manifold events. Perhaps if nothing else in this disaster class of just narrative team rejection of audience investment decisionmaking thats' honestly really the only elevatory element to take away from this.

They've certainly narrowed things down and if everything is in preparation for a less cosmically charged environment that could only be a sign of a much more interesting playspace than the one where we expand outwards until we hit nonsensical philosophical drivel that should've always been kept as musings of the most unhinged lore speculationists, anyways.

What are you on about? What is the lost potential here and what is the avenue that they were wrong about when it came to Void Lords in general and Dimensius in particular? From a commercial perspective, is plainly obvious from their successful selling of Xal merch and putting her front and center that they (correctly) assume that putting more into her basket over cliffnotes that lacked prior investment or a TBC quest mob that their assumption is correct and from a story investment Xal obviously commands more investment than do the Void Lords.

This isn't N'zoth, Azshara and all of the South Seas being thrown under the bus for the Bald Man's expansion, it's two elements which were introduced six expansions deep of which one was received and handled much better and the other was both not developed during its time and had nothing to develop in the first place, as it was already just a repetition of something that was already there (The Old Gods).

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

What are you on about? What is the lost potential here and what is the avenue that they were wrong about when it came to Void Lords in general and Dimensius in particular? From a commercial perspective, is plainly obvious from their successful selling of Xal merch and putting her front and center that they (correctly) assume that putting more into her basket over cliffnotes that lacked prior investment or a TBC quest mob that their assumption is correct and from a story investment Xal obviously commands more investment than do the Void Lords.

This isn't N'zoth, Azshara and all of the South Seas being thrown under the bus for the Bald Man's expansion, it's two elements which were new to the franchise of which one was received and handled much better and the other was both not developed during its time and had nothing to develop in the first place, as it was already just a repetition of something that was already there (The Old Gods).

We've continuously just neglected elements because of the fact it is more convenient to erase them for the benefit of a narrowing of the cosmically charged universe that existed prior to when the executives recognized it was alienating and distracting from the core Warcraft setting. Its' a nice scapegoat to again undercook and underdeliver elements of the story that many wanted to handled with more care than what we ended up with.

I don't even disagree with this, I'm just saying there's always lost potential in the equation to these conversations when the Narrative Team and the leadership decides wholestop to just erase elements of the longstanding lore without any sort of satisfying end to them and instead delivering them through soundbites to their consumers.

Of course, I agree that N'zoths' conclusion is a far worse outcome and Blizzard even agrees with them fiddling and twisting with it in interviews in Dragonflight. I'm not saying that Voidlords were this well constructed concept or that Dimensius was a defining great villain. There was no characterization and there was no background setup to even make what Voidlords were in the first place. So why not just let Dimensius be the battery for the Voidspire for our #1 Mortal wanting to envelope with the Soul?

But there's always an alternative universe where all these long standing concepts were delivered in a far better product that elevated and increased interest in the franchise and that's always what ist at stake. Maybe a unrealistic universe, certainly considering the conditions of the Warcraft Team but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

At the end of the day, I don't find any particular enjoyment of discussing zero sum logic in regards to what is supposed to be narratively engaging and exciting content that drives engagement for the franchise both for consumers and for outside observers.

[Super Dickmann]

We've continuously just neglected elements because of the fact it is more convenient to erase them for the benefit of a narrowing of the cosmically charged universe that existed prior to when the executives recognized it was alienating and distracting from the core Warcraft setting. Its' a nice scapegoat to again undercook and underdeliver elements of the story that many wanted to handled with more care than what we ended up with.

I don't even disagree with this, I'm just saying there's always lost potential in the equation to these conversations when the Narrative Team and the leadership decides wholestop to just erase elements of the longstanding lore without any sort of satisfying end to them instead delivering them through soundbites to their consumers.

At the end of the day, I don't find any particular enjoyment of discussing zero sum logic in regards to what is supposed to be narratively engaging and exciting content that drives engagement for the franchise.

Then what is your point? If you agree with the position expressed, don't contend that there was some clear, obvious way to make Old Gods+1 any better or even that Old Gods+1 are actually permanently removed given that the reasoning of this very expansion we're discussing (and really the Old Gods since launch as competing with each other for which reigns supreme well before they invented even the World Soul) since they can easily bring them back in, then what is the contention? That the writers could have built them up and settled them in another way?

Sure, they could, but time is in fact, subject to zero-sum logic. Any effort placed into building up this vapid, repetitive cipher into a standpoint that may or may not be good is something not spent on proven objects of investment. That is the lesson of the endless wacky tribes we meet who's worldbuilding is more elaborate than most actual player races and also almost without exception pointless as they never appear afterwards.

[Joshuaj]

What are you on about? What is the lost potential here and what is the avenue that they were wrong about when it came to Void Lords in general and Dimensius in particular? From a commercial perspective, is plainly obvious from their successful selling of Xal merch and putting her front and center that they (correctly) assume that putting more into her basket over cliffnotes that lacked prior investment or a TBC quest mob that their assumption is correct and from a story investment Xal obviously commands more investment than do the Void Lords.

This isn't N'zoth, Azshara and all of the South Seas being thrown under the bus for the Bald Man's expansion, it's two elements which were introduced six expansions deep of which one was received and handled much better and the other was both not developed during its time and had nothing to develop in the first place, as it was already just a repetition of something that was already there (The Old Gods).

This is akin to calling the Outer Gods a repetition of the Old Ones, btw. It's an inherently flawed argument that stems from you simply not liking the Void Lords as a concept, and that's okay.

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As I wrote when this first came up, the entire discourse about 'wasting' the Void Lords or it even constituting a twist is nonsense:


The Void Lords have no presence and no narrative effect. Their existence is, save for a few documents, relegated to the Chronicle description of them as nameless, faceless Old Gods +1 who chuck the Old Gods we know into the world, who then do the actual work. The threat they pose isn't just analogous to an Old God with the power of the World Soul, it is identical, because that's their means. None of them ever appear, none are referenced, nothing was done to differentiate or set them up.

Even calling it a retcon is a strain for me because again, this had no reflection in the way anything at all was written. No effort was made to build up to us fighting Void Lords (wisely so) and Dimensius was a threat because he was a big monster destroying the place he was famous for destroying and then threatening the world, not because of his unique status. The route they took was already about the best you could do with this kind of big threat, precisely because it avoided the pitfall of the Bald Man of shifting the weight of the conflict towards a new, undercharacterized satan figure. Dimensius wouldn't be better if he was Amon and he could never be Sargeras..

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If anything, SL hate is lighter in this thread than it is most anywhere else, since anyone still discussing the plot compared to the many who lost interest must at least tacitly tolerate SL. I'm a moderate too as I consider SL's story to be merely shit in a fairly baseline Blizzard way, rather than uniquely shit.

I mean, your statement regarding Dimensius has baseline merit, yes. But the point of his threat beyond everyone's baseline knowledge was the fact that he was aiming to consume not just the rest of K'aresh or all of Azeroth, but our universe and beyond as a whole.

Locus Walker called him the entropy of the end. He, by all intents and purposes, represented the heat death of the Universe, which is cosmic horror in every account. We ended up stopping him with the aid of Xal'atath using K'aresh's worldsoul power to imbue us and weaken the Void Lord + The Reshii Wraps.

[Super Dickmann]

This is akin to calling the Outer Gods a repetition of the Old Ones, btw. It's an inherently flawed argument that stems from you simply not liking the Void Lords as a concept, and that's okay.

The Void Lords are the Outer Gods only in so far as they serve the same ecological niche on paper, but they are a completely different kettle of fish in practice. They never were featured as the Outer Gods were by Lovecraft. The closest renditions to Nyarlathotep are N'zoth and Xal herself, there is no Azathoth. They are not placed as these ineffable entities affecting the world obliquely or through guises for grounds unclear. They have a very clear goal (take the World Soul) and a very clear means (send Old Gods to do it) and the way these goals and means play out result in them in all ways overlapping with the narrative function of the Old God.

The Old God W scenario is already taking over the World Soul and assuming its power. From the standpoint of the people fighting it is completely irrelevant whether there's a secondary step where that Old God dies and said power becomes the vessel for another character that not only hasn't interacted with the world as the Old God has, but can't, by design.

Re: Dimensius, yes, and I contend that the narrative used him to its maximum. He wasn't misused, but applied well for the purposes of the plot, didn't overstay his welcome and was an entertaining setpiece threat.

[Joshuaj]

And you're right, nobody can be Sargeras. Xal'atath also ain't like Gul'dan or the Lich King. That doesn't mean they can't be well written or well handled, however. Imo, Dimensius was handled well for the cosmic horror that he was. He was handled poorly however in that he's now seemingly gone-gone, and it's entirely possible there are no more Void Lords remaining.

On the brighter side of things though, this does further the possibility of a future expac where Azshara assumes command of the Void.

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The Void Lords are the Outer Gods only in so far as they were cribbed wholesale conceptually. They never were featured in this way. The closest renditions to Nyarlathotep are N'zoth and Xal herself, there is no Azathoth. They are not placed as these ineffable entities affecting the world obliquely or through guises for grounds unclear. They have a very clear goal (take the World Soul) and a very clear means (send Old Gods to do it) and the way these goals and means play out result in them in all ways overlapping with the narrative function of the Old God.

The Old God W scenario is already taking over the World Soul and assuming its power. From the standpoint of the people fighting it is completely irrelevant whether there's a secondary step where that Old God dies and said power becomes the vessel for another character that not only hasn't interacted with the world as the Old God has, but can't, by design.

Re: Dimensius, yes, and I contend that the narrative used him to its maximum. He wasn't misused, but applied well for the purposes of the plot, didn't overstay his welcome and was an entertaining setpiece threat.

It's not a 1 for 1 copy. Nothing in WoW is a 1 for 1 copy of what it's taking inspiration from. Doesn't mean the influence ain't there though.

For example, no Void Lord is going to represent Yog-Sothoth, but the Yog-Sothoth or God (Depending on if you're arguing Lovecraft or Religion) representation already exists I.E the First Ones (As Yog-Sothoth is basically the entire Lovecraft verse, and the Progenitors are essentially the WoW Cosmology due to them being the primal forces who came together and created this whole design).

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

Then what is your point? If you agree with the position expressed, don't contend that there was some clear, obvious way to make Old Gods+1 any better or even that Old Gods+1 are actually permanently removed given that the reasoning of this very expansion we're discussing (and really the Old Gods since launch as competing with each other for which reigns supreme well before they invented even the World Soul) since they can easily bring them back in, then what is the contention? That the writers could have built them up and settled them in another way?

Sure, they could, but time is in fact, subject to zero-sum logic. Any effort placed into building up this vapid, repetitive cipher into a standpoint that may or may not be good is something not spent on proven objects of investment. That is the lesson of the endless wacky tribes we meet who's worldbuilding is more elaborate than most actual player races and also almost without exception pointless as they never appear afterwards.

I mean they couldn't which is the actual core concern in a way, they cannot actual deliver anything of value under the conditions and constraints they are operating in our current universe that we exist within where again the narrative and story will always be on the backburner due to the fact its investment is a loss leader and would most likely face extreme hurdles of gaining any further support.

I'm just speaking in abstract in a universe that isn't wrestling with current market conditions, I am under full knowledge of the current problematic circumstances we're facing in regards to our Narrative issues within this Universe we operate within.

I mean I certainly think you're right on the time dynamic, its' really just time continuously leading us into bad outcomes that ultimately just narrows the playing field until they have very few options left and again you won't find me disagreeing with a return to the core setting of this franchise anytime soon. But, I also feel like it is unclear if even returning to that core setting in 14.0 or whenever will even do anything at this point considering how uneventful and unessential everything has become wouldn't the core setting also be subject to the time issue? I certainly have my doubts that they can produce anything satisfactorily at this point under these conditions. everythings' kind of flaking off at this point.

[Joshuaj]

Funny enough, if anyone is to represent Azathoth, it's Azeroth. She slumbers, her power was used in Progenitor machinery to try and recreate reality, her dreams are linked to a lot of unique things, and it's possible she has connections with the First Ones in some manner (assuming TLT doesn't retcon them ofc).

Heck, it is possible the Progenitor and Yog-Sothoth connection could expand some more, and we'll get some twist where the Worldsouls are remnants of an all-powerful originator being that predates the First Ones or whatever. Ofc, that's tinfoil-hat tier speculation imo, but it's not impossible. Just dunno if Blizzard would want to go that far lol.

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Even funnier, if they write it a unique way, Azeroth might end up being more important in her respective universe than Azathoth is in his.

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Heck, you can already make the argument ngl. Ofc, I do think there's some contention there.

[Vakir]

It's not so much the idea of 1:1.

The idea being communicated is completely different. Lovecraft isn't about scary tentacles the way pop culture resembles it, it's about factors and concepts completely beyond the reach of our comprehension that makes us feel like less than the grains of sand we already are, with meaning to their actions that either don't exist or operate forever outside of our awareness. And also, sadly, racism from a sheltered ludite.

The Old Gods and Xal are Saturday Morning Cartoon villains that just happen to use Lovecraftian aesthetic. Nyarlathotep wouldn't be caught dead monologuing about "his prize," he's been wandering around mucking about with total freedom to just be a maximum asshole.

So it's not just that it isn't 1:1, their entire function is different. You can't do heat death of the universe played for drama in WoW in the same way beyond what they did in the same way they can't communicate existential dread the way XIV depicts it with Meteion. It's incompatible.

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Even funnier, if they write it a unique way, Azeroth might end up being more important in her respective universe than Azathoth is in his.

I sure fucking hope not.

Also the entire existence of progenitors breaks any analogy because it's ordered geometry instead of a blind retard farting out chaotic existence that would cause our brains to plasmatize.

[Super Dickmann]

...It's not a 1 for 1 copy. Nothing in WoW is a 1 for 1 copy of what it's taking inspiration from. Doesn't mean the influence ain't there though.

For example, no Void Lord is going to represent Yog-Sothoth, but the Yog-Sothoth or God (Depending on if you're arguing Lovecraft or Religion) representation already exists I.E the First Ones (As Yog-Sothoth is basically the entire Lovecraft verse, and the Progenitors are essentially the WoW Cosmology due to them being the primal forces who came together and created this whole design).

Re: Azshara, she is actually in a weird spot now as Xal has taken up the evil lady commandeering a cosmic power gig, and they look to be wrapping up the elf story within the first patch, so her way in is likely via Sargeras to call back to WotA rather than via the void. Any story there would now be a retread of both Xal and her own BFA stint.

As for the Void Lords, the thing isn't that they aren't a 1-for-1 copy, it's that they're fundamentally not that concept and their only role as such doubled up on what the Old Gods were doing. They demystified the Old Gods, to suit Chronicle's aim of centering the Titans we're now going back to now, but they filled no new niche. Per my previous post and yours, the role that would be filled by more classically Lovecraftian Outer Gods is already filled, as are the role of a more straightforward cosmic godzilla.

[Joshuaj]

The Void Lords exist outside of the physical universe, and, based off what we saw with Dimensius, they likely represent different cosmic existential horrors. This is fundamentally akin to a baseline explanation of the Outer Gods. The actual designs don't appear to be at all the same though, and the general naming, number, and hierarchy of these beings is different as well.

[Super Dickmann]

I mean I certainly think you're right on the time dynamic, its' really just time continuously leading us into bad outcomes that ultimately just narrows the playing field until they have very few options left and again you won't find me disagreeing with a return to the core setting of this franchise anytime soon. But, I also feel like it is unclear if even returning to that core setting in 14.0 or whenever will even do anything at this point considering how uneventful and unessential everything has become wouldn't the core setting also be subject to the time issue? I certainly have my doubts that they can produce anything satisfactorily at this point under these conditions. everythings' kind of flaking off at this point.

My main line of disagreement with this strain of logic, past it just being pointless - i.e if we're complaining that the narrative team doesn't have the investment/money to produce a nebulous better product that even we can't come up in our heads, is that we're well past that nadir. Blizzard already burnt everything they had left over in the Legion to BFA stretch and everything since then has been effectively 'new'. They already had their options narrowed to the furthest point when they torched every outstanding plot thread and antagonist they had in BFA and destroyed the factions therein for good measure, turning everyone into an identical peacenik. Everything since then has been trying, with very mixed success, to produce something out of it. Even Midnight's biggest pain points (Turalyon, the Blood Elves being a force of harmony and saved by outside powers) are themselves also carried back when they were earlier and worse (Legion for Turalyon, the back stretch of TBC for the Blood Elves).

[Joshuaj]

It's not so much the idea of 1:1.

The idea being communicated is completely different. Lovecraft isn't about scary tentacles the way pop culture resembles it, it's about factors and concepts completely beyond the reach of our comprehension that makes us feel like less than the grains of sand we already are, with meaning to their actions that either don't exist or operate forever outside of our awareness. And also, sadly, racism from a sheltered ludite.

The Old Gods and Xal are Saturday Morning Cartoon villains that just happen to use Lovecraftian aesthetic. Nyarlathotep wouldn't be caught dead monologuing about "his prize," he's been wandering around mucking about with total freedom to just be a maximum asshole.

So it's not just that it isn't 1:1, their entire function is different. You can't do heat death of the universe played for drama in WoW in the same way beyond what they did in the same way they can't communicate existential dread the way XIV depicts it with Meteion. It's incompatible.

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I sure fucking hope not.

Also the entire existence of progenitors breaks any analogy because it's ordered geometry instead of a blind retard farting out chaotic existence that would cause our brains to plasmatize.

That's where the general 1 for 1 differentiates in regards to the Progenitors and Yog-Sothoth. Yog-Sothoth is a chaotic existence (Which is funny, as apparently a glimpse of its true form showed pure light, which is akin to how the Progenitors cores look in the Heart of the Sepulcher skybox, as well as the cores of Worldsouls and the core of Dimensius's center disk), while the Progenitors design has a clear structure to it, which makes sense if we're to assume Order was the one who originated the idea.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

Honestly, I think my biggest issue is just the framing of these things. If there had been a proper emergence of Dimensius cinematic and it was framed in a way that really did elevate and push this final fight against THE Voidlord I think it'd be pretty exquisite. But, as always we half measure everything even when we do grand concepts and important moments and sure I am saying grand concepts/important moments in ultra small text because again I agree it doesn't really mean that outside of the internal story context but like again I grow tired of the belittling of everything at this point as if we should always beg for a tin of Campbells' soup at this point.

Obviously again, I understand spending money on this games' narrative when you can just waltz about is what we're now accustomed to so again I'm not going to think it was ever possible in the first place. I just had a lot more hope during Dragonflight when I saw the Patch Trailers and increased IGC use but alas I knew it wouldn't last nothing ever really lasts.

So when a Voidlord enters Reality and is not framed in any specific manner that actually would make sense for such a event I'm not really surprised.

[Vakir]

That's where the general 1 for 1 differentiates in regards to the Progenitors and Yog-Sothoth. Yog-Sothoth is a chaotic existence, while the Progenitors design has a clear structure to it, which makes sense if we're to assume Order was the one who originated the idea.

You're talking from a surface level wiki reading.

I'm saying they're thematically incompatible.

We are not the same.

[Joshuaj]

You're talking from a surface level wiki reading.

I'm saying they're thematically incompatible.

We are not the same.

Speaking of which, when you said "blind retard", were you talking about Azathoth? Cause I was talking Yog-Sothoth, who is very much NOT the Blind Idiot God.

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Honestly, I think my biggest issue is just the framing of these things. If there had been a proper emergence of Dimensius cinematic and it was framed in a way that really did elevate and push this final fight against THE Voidlord I think it'd be pretty exquisite. But, as always we half measure everything even when we do grand concepts and important moments and sure I am saying grand concepts/important moments in ultra small text because again I agree it doesn't really mean that outside of the internal story context but like again I grow tired of the belittling of everything at this point as if we should always beg for a tin of Campbells' soup at this point.

Obviously again, I understand spending money on this games' narrative when you can just waltz about is what we're now accustomed to so again I'm not going to think it was ever possible in the first place. I just had a lot more hope during Dragonflight when I saw the Patch Trailers and increased IGC use but alas I knew it wouldn't last nothing ever really lasts.

So when a Voidlord enters Reality and is not framed in any specific manner that actually would make sense for such a event I'm not really surprised.

I mean, you did the Dimensius fight yeah? A glimpse of his true power made him practically untouchable lol. The only reason we were able to strike him after the Second Phase was due to Xal'atath absorbing K'aresh's remaining power temporarily, and giving it to us for a proper counter-attack.

[Super Dickmann]

Honestly, I think my biggest issue is just the framing of these things. If there had been a proper emergence of Dimensius cinematic and it was framed in a way that really did elevate and push this final fight against THE Voidlord I think it'd be pretty exquisite. But, as always we half measure everything even when we do grand concepts and important moments and sure I am saying grand concepts/important moments in ultra small text because again I agree it doesn't really mean that outside of the internal story context but like again I grow tired of the belittling of everything at this point as if we should always beg for a tin of Campbells' soup at this point.

Obviously again, I understand spending money on this games' narrative when you can just waltz about is what we're now accustomed to so again I'm not going to think it was ever possible in the first place. I just had a lot more hope during Dragonflight when I saw the Patch Trailers and increased IGC use but alas I knew it wouldn't last nothing ever really lasts.

So when a Voidlord enters Reality and is not framed in any specific manner that actually would make sense for such a event I'm not really surprised.

For one, if there's anything his fight does cover it's spectacle, hell, it has the most of it they've done in terms of raid and correctly not as a cutscene but in the actual game. But for another, the reason it isn't focused on as being a huge confrontation with the final Void Lord is because the narrative heft of the story isn't on that - Dimensius doesn't even appear for much of the patch, because the focus of the scene is about Alleria and Locus-Walker. Through the short story and patch, he is characterized via his reaction to what happened when he was faced with an existential threat to the world, the steps he took and where they ended up, i.e with him as a lonely energy mummy and his world as a blasted ruin. In the patch, he and Alleria make the compromise of following Xal out of necessity and at the end he dies and she has to extrapolate whether she'll take this approach to her own world.

In Midnight, we see that she and Anduin Arator aren't willing to do the same, i.e blast the world to destroy the Void, getting in the way of Lothraxion doing the same, but she, much like him, when on her own is overcome by the void and ends up facilitating Xal, the same way he did. Presumably from there the plot will have her overcome with the power of family or friendship or what have you, but this is the throughline of the plot. I'm not telling you whether this story is good or not, only that it was deliberately done in this way and that to put the focus on Dimensius, who again, could have his role in this and TBC replaced by a big meteor without any meaningful change, would have made the story worse.

[Vakir]

Speaking of which, when you said "blind retard", were you talking about Azathoth? Cause I was talking Yog-Sothoth, who is very much NOT the Blind Idiot God.

Azathoth was what I was talking about because we were talking about creation myth.

[LarryWithTheWeatherReport]

I honestly think they are bringing the old gods back. TWW had their blood, Midnight adds some more lore to the Nightmare + some hints about how Yogg and Yshaarj used it, and we're building up to an eventual reappearance of N'zoth.

But they are coming back because they are characters attached to Azeroth with actual personalities- unlike Dimensius.

100% perfect especially with how they're slowly setting up the old gods kicking the pure void in the last expansion. They were always cooler looking and definitely had greater potentials and powers.

Chronicles 5 is going to retcon some stuff. We still haven't encounter the power of a prime old god which would be beyond all besides Sargeras and the 7 prime Titans.

The nightmare stuff is very interesting and I can see that as another good tie in later.

Someone also needs to resurrect the strongest old god whose corpses should still be floating somewhere deep in the great dark with a piece of Azeroth hopefully.