The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Piertje1984]

Impossible to say. If 10.2 is coming out roughly 2 months after 10.1.7 like the previous patches then I would expect us to see it now. But next week seems like a safe bet given the Vendor build was updated.

Yeh I thought so. I am currently not playing but waiting for 10.2 since I love the lore about the dream and would really like to play there... if we go there offcourse but everything is pointing that way.

[Sondrelk]

I believe that Shadowlands suffered from a breakdown in their development cycle rather than being abandoned for Dragonflight. Aside from the lawsuit which undoubtedly severely impacted morale, it's likely that the systems-heavy structure of SL exacerbated content development and tuning time. Even if the team had a more productive environment for SL, I still don't think the design of it would have enabled the more rapid fire development we see now. It used to be that your spec was likely locked into their playstyle for an entire expansion, now we get class reworks in mid-season patches.

I don't see any way a missing 10.3 goes over well with the community unless 11.0 is a full scale revamp all available at launch. All it would spell is that nothing has truly changed and we're right back to a very lengthy content drought while you cross your fingers that the next expansion is good, instead of keeping the playerbase energized and excited for the entire duration of an expansion all the way up to launch for a change. "Nothing has truly changed" is not the vibe Blizzard can afford right now.

Abandoned is probably not the right word. But like WoD it's clear that SL was supposed to have more stuff that got scrapped in favor of a stable 2 year expansion cycle.
Warlords of Draenor was almost certainly supposed to have a Shattrath raid. And Shadowlands I imagine would have had a raid against the Drust.

The reason I feel that wouldnt happen for DF is that the patch that I would have scrapped would probably have been the Dream themed one 10.2 likely is. It's not entirely relevant to the main plot like what a hypothetical Avaloren/Titan Keeper themed patch would be.

[Cheezits]

Abandoned is probably not the right word. But like WoD it's clear that SL was supposed to have more stuff that got scrapped in favor of a stable 2 year expansion cycle.
Warlords of Draenor was almost certainly supposed to have a Shattrath raid. And Shadowlands I imagine would have had a raid against the Drust.

The reason I feel that wouldnt happen for DF is that the patch that I would have scrapped would probably have been the Dream themed one 10.2 likely is. It's not entirely relevant to the main plot like what a hypothetical Avaloren/Titan Keeper themed patch would be.

People keep saying the Dream isn't relevant, but it's far more relevant to the Primalist beef as it contains the one thing that they desire: a copy of Early Azeroth.

I have a feeling Fyrakk and the Primalists will die in 10.2 so we can focus on the Titans/Keepers in 10.3, but I'm not sure you can call that the real plot of DF. Its more about the Dragons backstory and future while 10.0, 10.1 and 10.2 deal wit the primalists.

[Murlocos]

Abandoned is probably not the right word. But like WoD it's clear that SL was supposed to have more stuff that got scrapped in favor of a stable 2 year expansion cycle.
Warlords of Draenor was almost certainly supposed to have a Shattrath raid. And Shadowlands I imagine would have had a raid against the Drust.

The reason I feel that wouldnt happen for DF is that the patch that I would have scrapped would probably have been the Dream themed one 10.2 likely is. It's not entirely relevant to the main plot like what a hypothetical Avaloren/Titan Keeper themed patch would be.

Oh yeah, there's no doubt SL had plenty scrapped. There's so much evidence pointing to a Drust patch nobody should believe them insisting that two patches were planned all along. Or you go on the other side with the speculation that Sepulcher feels like it should have ended with Anduin, but my mind's foggy on all of that now.

I compare that to WoD where the wheels looked to be coming off before it even released with continual cuts and shrinkage of launch content, and that's where I think you can make a clear case for it getting dumped to hop over to Legion early.

[Sondrelk]

People keep saying the Dream isn't relevant, but it's far more relevant to the Primalist beef as it contains the one thing that they desire: a copy of Early Azeroth.

I have a feeling Fyrakk and the Primalists will die in 10.2 so we can focus on the Titans/Keepers in 10.3, but I'm not sure you can call that the real plot of DF. Its more about the Dragons backstory and future while 10.0, 10.1 and 10.2 deal wit the primalists.

It's not irrelevant to the main plot, but it is tangential. You could have removed it and not missed a whole lot. The pristine copy of Azeroth could have been gained from anywhere really.
The reason we go there is because it does touch on a bunch of plotlines that are more relevant. It ties up the Green Dragonflight storyline. It uses that chunk of the map. It gives us a bunch of themed stuff tied to the Dream. etc.

It's how it usually goes with the X.2 patches. The story it tells isnt usually required for the plot to function, but rather an interlude that ties up some other loose plot threads. As well as more importantly giving a break from the main theme of the expansion.
We didnt need to have Ulduar in WotLK, but we did have Titan plotlines that needed to be resolved, as well as a large Titan themed zone that would be perfect for such a raid. It also broke up what would otherwise probably have been a very monotonous undeath themed expansion with some decidely non-undeath stuff.
MoP didnt need to go to the Isle of Thunder. But because we did we got a bunch of resolution for what the Mogu story was, as well as giving us something other than the more standard Asian inspired stuff.

[Ersula]

I'm not sold on a 10.3 at this point and signs keep pointing to no. The fastest Blizzard has gotten from a final patch to an expansion was Shadowlands 9.2 to 10.0 at just 8 months.

Actually Antorus to BFA was only 7 months. I guess they might do that again, but what's more typical is if we get another major patch around May & the 10th expansion late fall. It seems like these were released specifically to pace out the content, and that feels more natural than going through most of the year. I guess it just depends on what they have planned.

I believe that Shadowlands suffered from a breakdown in their development cycle rather than being abandoned for Dragonflight. Aside from the lawsuit which undoubtedly severely impacted morale, it's likely that the systems-heavy structure of SL exacerbated content development and tuning time. Even if the team had a more productive environment for SL, I still don't think the design of it would have enabled the more rapid fire development we see now. It used to be that your spec was likely locked into their playstyle for an entire expansion, now we get class reworks in mid-season patches.

Shadowlands had less content because of a global pandemic actually. I mean everything you said is true, but that's the underlying reason; in case you were in a coma between 2019 & 2022

[Cheezits]

It's not irrelevant to the main plot, but it is tangential. You could have removed it and not missed a whole lot. The pristine copy of Azeroth could have been gained from anywhere really.
The reason we go there is because it does touch on a bunch of plotlines that are more relevant. It ties up the Green Dragonflight storyline. It uses that chunk of the map. It gives us a bunch of themed stuff tied to the Dream. etc.

You're talking about a patch that's so story-heavy that they don't even reveal the reason for the name of the patch before it. You really think it's going to be less relevant to the overall story of the expansion than Tyr coming down and starting a civil war?

Now people (loreheads especially) may be more interested in Tyr and Odyn beefing with dragons but I would say the primalists vs dragons plot is the main one, not the influence of the Titans.

[Sondrelk]

You're talking about a patch that's so story-heavy that they don't even reveal the reason for the name of the patch before it. You really think it's going to be less relevant to the overall story of the expansion than Tyr coming down and starting a civil war?

Now people (loreheads especially) may be more interested in Tyr and Odyn beefing with dragons but I would say the primalists vs dragons plot is the main one, not the influence of the Titans.

Why do you assume it's that story heavy? Could be it's not revealed beause it's not ready to be revealed.

Also I am not saying it's light on story. I am saying that in the broad view of the entire expansion it's less relevant than stuff directly tying to the Dragon/Titan Keeper storyline. We don't even know why the Incarnates are even going there. Could be for any number of reasons, none of which are necesarily anything to do with the main plot of Dragonflight, much in the same way Azshara in BfA was heavy on plot, but didnt have much to do with the Horde v. Alliance storyline we had focused on until then.

[Murlocos]

Shadowlands had less content because of a global pandemic actually. I mean everything you said is true, but that's the underlying reason; in case you were in a coma between 2019 & 2022

Dragonflight was primarily developed during said pandemic, though. I'm sure their remote work tools improved over time, but it was being worked on at the same time that they were struggling to create content in a timely fashion that I don't think it was just a case of lopsided resource allocation. I don't think that 10.0 was particularly anemic or loaded with content, it's that the design of it allows them to develop content and address feedback a lot quicker than SL or BfA.

[Cheezits]

Also I am not saying it's light on story. I am saying that in the broad view of the entire expansion it's less relevant than stuff directly tying to the Dragon/Titan Keeper storyline. We don't even know why the Incarnates are even going there. Could be for any number of reasons, none of which are necesarily anything to do with the main plot of Dragonflight, much in the same way Azshara in BfA was heavy on plot, but didnt have much to do with the Horde v. Alliance storyline we had focused on until then.

My main point is that the Dragon/Titan story is the B plot, not the A plot. Hell it might even be the C plot for the first half of the expansion, as the Dracthyr/Black Dragons get far more quests and buildup than the Titans. Tyr gets like a quest a patch.

The expansion is building up to Dragons picking Azeroth over the Titans, but it's way in the background and not really telegraphed in an obvious way.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

You're talking about a patch that's so story-heavy that they don't even reveal the reason for the name of the patch before it. You really think it's going to be less relevant to the overall story of the expansion than Tyr coming down and starting a civil war?

Now people (loreheads especially) may be more interested in Tyr and Odyn beefing with dragons but I would say the primalists vs dragons plot is the main one, not the influence of the Titans.

The influence of the Titans is definitely relevant.

[Sondrelk]

My main point is that the Dragon/Titan story is the B plot, not the A plot. Hell it might even be the C plot for the first half of the expansion, as the Dracthyr/Black Dragons get far more quests and buildup than the Titans. Tyr gets like a quest a patch.

The expansion is building up to Dragons picking Azeroth over the Titans, but it's way in the background and not really telegraphed in an obvious way.

I always count the A plot as the one introduced to the players to begin with, and the B plot as whatever smaller ones are scattered around.
In Dragonflight the A plot is very clearly the Dragons and the Titan Keepers. Valdrakken is one giant Titan Facility, and the Primalists are primarily about ridding Azeroth of Titan influence. You can't really act like that isnt the main plot.

The Dream is a B plot. It's only brought into the forefront as a holdover from the ongoing Night Elf storyline intersecting with the Ysera storyline.

The black dragon stuff did get a patch, but it's also now done. The Tyr storyline has been ongoing since the expansion started, and likely will keep going until the end.

[Cheezits]

The influence of the Titans is definitely relevant.

But are they mentioned in a way that new players know what the origin of the dragons are? Like in the expansion itself? Outside of the silver scale storyline I can't think of them sitting down and explaining their origin story outside of the short.

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I always count the A plot as the one introduced to the players to begin with, and the B plot as whatever smaller ones are scattered around.
In Dragonflight the A plot is very clearly the Dragons and the Titan Keepers. Valdrakken is one giant Titan Facility, and the Primalists are primarily about ridding Azeroth of Titan influence. You can't really act like that isnt the main plot.

The Dream is a B plot. It's only brought into the forefront as a holdover from the ongoing Night Elf storyline intersecting with the Ysera storyline.

The black dragon stuff did get a patch, but it's also now done. The Tyr storyline has been ongoing since the expansion started, and likely will keep going until the end.

They are tied to the Primalist beef for sure but I don't think they (primlalists) will last all the way to 10.3. And if they do i think Tyr will brutally murder Vyranoth (or turn her into a dragon? that would be fun) to showcase that he's a robot first and not the great guy the quests build him up to be.

But still, I am not sure the Titans are an obvious plot thread here.

[Sondrelk]

But are they mentioned in a way that new players know what the origin of the dragons are? Like in the expansion itself? Outside of the silver scale storyline I can't think of them sitting down and explaining their origin story outside of the short.

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They are tied to the Primalist beef for sure but I don't think they (primlalists) will last all the way to 10.3. And if they do i think Tyr will brutally murder Vyranoth (or turn her into a dragon? that would be fun) to showcase that he's a robot first and not the great guy the quests build him up to be.

But still, I am not sure the Titans are an obvious plot thread here.

I put Titan/Titan Keepers/Order under one umbrella for simplicity. The main plot in DF is primarily I would say, about the Dragons learning about the plans the Titan Keepers had for them. From why Galakrond turned, to why the Incarnates oppose them.
I'm not sure what else you could count as the main plot? Even the Dawn of the Incarnates dungeon just now had Iridikron mention the Titans plans for Azeroth, and how he plans to oppose them.

Personally I am waiting for the infused egg from way back in Waking Shores early levelling to come back. My guess is Tyr is going to attempt to destroy the egg, and Alexstrasza will oppose him, setting up the conflict between the Dragons and the Titan Keepers.

[Dracullus]

I really don't get the discussion about the 10.3 being cancelled. Like, what suggests that claim?

I'm no discussing if 10.3 is cancelled. I'm discussing if 10.3 is PLANNED. And it still just discussion, I'm not convinced either way yet, we simply don't know when 11.0 launch or how many resources are put into DF patches.

[Cheezits]

I put Titan/Titan Keepers/Order under one umbrella for simplicity. The main plot in DF is primarily I would say, about the Dragons learning about the plans the Titan Keepers had for them. From why Galakrond turned, to why the Incarnates oppose them.
I'm not sure what else you could count as the main plot? Even the Dawn of the Incarnates dungeon just now had Iridikron mention the Titans plans for Azeroth, and how he plans to oppose them.

Personally I am waiting for the infused egg from way back in Waking Shores early levelling to come back. My guess is Tyr is going to attempt to destroy the egg, and Alexstrasza will oppose him, setting up the conflict between the Dragons and the Titan Keepers.

When you phrase it that way I agree. Though I think it's insane that once again, after getting lambasted for it in Shadowlands, they are making this reveal take a very long time. And also tying it to a book (which I thought they said they wouldn't do)

[Ersula]

Dragonflight was primarily developed during said pandemic, though. I'm sure their remote work tools improved over time, but it was being worked on at the same time that they were struggling to create content in a timely fashion that I don't think it was just a case of lopsided resource allocation. I don't think that 10.0 was particularly anemic or loaded with content, it's that the design of it allows them to develop content and address feedback a lot quicker than SL or BfA.

Dragonflight definitely had less launch content than Shadowlands; that's one of the most common criticisms of it. That's just the difference between your plans being disrupted by a pandemic you didn't anticipate (Shadowlands) and organizing your development around the pandemic (Dragonflight).

I'm no discussing if 10.3 is cancelled. I'm discussing if 10.3 is PLANNED. And it still just discussion, I'm not convinced either way yet, we simply don't know when 11.0 launch or how many resources are put into DF patches.

Do you notice how even when the production has big problems, the last patch still manages to be the big conclusion to the overall story? I explain how they do that below:

They are tied to the Primalist beef for sure but I don't think they (primlalists) will last all the way to 10.3. And if they do i think Tyr will brutally murder Vyranoth (or turn her into a dragon? that would be fun) to showcase that he's a robot first and not the great guy the quests build him up to be.

But still, I am not sure the Titans are an obvious plot thread here.

Speaking of the campaign, we can actually know if there will be a 10.3 based on what the 10.2 raid covers: The infamous "troll raid."

They always plan out a raid for the middle of the expansion they can skip if production becomes strained: If the 10.2 raid is about the Emerald Dream, there will be a 10.3. If the 10.3 raid is about killing Iridikron, there won't be a 10.3 and any story related to the Emerald Dream will simply be covered in a questline; just like how if BFA's production had been strained, they would have either skipped Dazar'alor or Nazjatar & turned its storyline into a questline. Or Throne of Thunder could have been skipped without big holes in MoP's story. If covid hadn't happened, Battle for Ardenweald would have been a raid tier; just look how most of the cinematics for Sanctum's patch are just about Ardenweald. They obviously didn't plan to do the big "Tyrande Fights Sylvanas" & "Sylvanas betrays the Jailer" cinematics at the same time but the animations themselves would have been in production before covid even happened.

[Dracullus]

Dragonflight definitely had less launch content than Shadowlands; that's one of the most common criticisms of it.

????

Oh wait, forgot it's you. xD

[Cheezits]

Dragonflight definitely had less launch content than Shadowlands; that's one of the most common criticisms of it.

What?

Shadowlands had a beefy launch with renown activities and lots of recolor mounts, but I didn't see it as that much bigger than DF launch.

[micwini]

Dragonflight definitely had less launch content than Shadowlands; that's one of the most common criticisms of it. That's just the difference between your plans being disrupted by a pandemic you didn't anticipate (Shadowlands) and organizing your development around the pandemic (Dragonflight).Do you notice how even when the production has big problems, the last patch still manages to be the big conclusion to the overall story? I explain how they do that below:Speaking of the campaign, we can actually know if there will be a 10.3 based on what the 10.2 raid covers: The infamous "troll raid."

They always plan out a raid for the middle of the expansion they can skip if production becomes strained: If the 10.2 raid is about the Emerald Dream, there will be a 10.3. If the 10.3 raid is about killing Iridikron, there won't be a 10.3 and any story related to the Emerald Dream will simply be covered in a questline; just like how if BFA's production had been strained, they would have either skipped Dazar'alor or Nazjatar & turned its storyline into a questline. Or Throne of Thunder could have been skipped without big holes in MoP's story. If covid hadn't happened, Battle for Ardenweald would have been a raid tier; just look how most of the cinematics for Sanctum's patch are just about Ardenweald. They obviously didn't plan to do the big "Tyrande Fights Sylvanas" & "Sylvanas betrays the Jailer" cinematics at the same time but the animations themselves would have been in production before covid even happened.

If any raid could have been skipped this expansion, it would have 100% been Aberrus. Could have just killed the guy in a quest.