The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Darkarath]

https://raider.io/news/422-dragonfli...hazzikostas#q5

Here you go. A final fated season with new outdoor content was always planned, nothing got "cut short".

While I agree that 10.3 is endangered at the moment, nowhere in this interview is stated that we will not have one. It just says that we will have a fated season.

[Annihilas]

While I agree that 10.3 is endangered at the moment, nowhere in this interview is stated that we will not have one. It just says that we will have a fated season.

ION HAZZIKOSTOS: I think it beats having had another 3 months of Sepulcher, which was the alternative. So, in that sense, I think it’s something we’re going to return to in some form. I think it makes sense as a short season like it was — like an outro or an epilogue to the new expansion.

Actually, he technically didn't even explicitly say we will have a fated season in Dragon Flight either... I mean I personally think there will be so I digress, but everybody is missing a very crucial point here, when he says we might get one as a short epilogue season or something like that. To think they'll do it as whole patch when they have more than enough time to feature 10.3, just doesn't make sense, unless it was all hands on deck for a HUGE 20th bash. So if we're going by what Ion said, then he gives no indication it would be 5+ months, which is how much time would be left after 10.2, at their current rate.

[Yzmor]

10.2

Announced next week, released around BlizzCon. All players gain access to the Druid class, with a generic set of Druid forms based on the Emerald Dream, and a starting zone within the dream (akin to Bolvar's Death Knights).

Fyrakk attacks the World Tree within the Emerald Dream, but we defeat him. We learn that Azeroth is the true source of the dream, and also the full extent of the Titans' Ordering of Azeroth. We realise that the Old Gods only used Azeroth's power for the Curse of Flesh. We are all Children of Azeroth, not the Old Gods nor the Titans. The evidence is at Khaz Algar.

Vyranoth and Alexstrasza struggle until the bitter end, each desperately seeking to make the other "wake up" to their truth. Eventually, Alex defeats Vyranoth and ends the threat to the Dragon Isles. However, Vyranoth's legacy endures, and the ideas she planted within Alex remain. It is unclear if Vyranoth survives, but I honestly don't think she needs "redemption". It is Alex who does.

Keeper Tyr has a re-awakening of his own, and begins to question the motives of his makers, as well as his past. The reason for this is that Alex confronts him. She has learned so much recently. The black dragons. The rebellion. Vyranoth. The Emerald Dream. It has all led to this. It'll be further explained in the War of the Scaleborn novel.

The Mother Oathstone awakens and the Dragon Aspects are empowered again.

Suddenly Iridikron appears, stronger than ever. He attacks Tyrhold, which becomes the final raid encounter. He's basically a distraction while the Harbinger does some shenanigans, still unbeknownst to us. We defeat him, but he probably escapes? Maybe the Harbinger or Queen Azshara takes him away in a portal, last minute.

10.X (Epilogue)

Announced at BlizzCon, released February, 2024. All players gain access to the Paladin class, based on Tyr or Elune. I'm sure they'll cleverly use NPCs inside capital cities to provide some further distinction, like they did with Monks etc.

Basically the epilogue to Dragonflight, with the "Fated Raid" system making its return, among other things.

11.0 (Pre-patch)

Announced at BlizzCon, released July, 2024. All players gain access to the Shaman class, as Thrall and the theme of "saving Azeroth" is prominent.

Likely some form of "invasion" content all around the world, which we need to stop. Elements in turmoil? Void minions? Pirates? Naga? IDK.

Expansion 10 (Release)

Announced at BlizzCon, released August, 2024. We head to Avaloren alongside Tyr and maybe some of the Dragon Aspects in Visage forms. We're looking for answers about their origins, about the fundamental nature of Azeroth, and of course help in our fight against the Harbinger and Queen Azshara.

We might head there with the Pirate Arnada, in case Horde and Alliance are a bit overwhelmed in the defense of Azeroth.

Lots of exotic and water-based content. Islands, etc.

20th Anniversary Celebration

Announced at BlizzCon, released 23rd November 2024. Probably either a World Revamp, or at least several major "world refresh" features. I'm guessing this happens on the actual anniversary date. Because the expansion will have been out for a little while, the original "threat against Azeroth" story will probably be over. So it makes sense for a refresh of the base world to happen after that.

no thanks.
no more dragons. just let the boring dragon story be left behind along with the dragon isles. thanks.

[Pheraz]

Kinda agree. I abs. love dragon riding and races, especially kalimdor cup and also DF is a very nice xpac but my fun-with-dragon battery is also drained. It's not the worst theme but I think dragons were a better theme when they were those mystical baddies hiding in caves or in BWL. Too much friendly dragons for my taste.
But it was a good idea nontheless. Hoping for very grounded azeroth story next plus sprinkles of void and old gods

[Worldshaper]

no thanks.
no more dragons. just let the boring dragon story be left behind along with the dragon isles. thanks.

I like how you hone in on one small detail in a long post, and just make a blanket "no thanks" statement based on that, lol.

I don't think dragons will play a large part of 11.0, but it's naive to think they'd just be gone like that.

Khadgar didn't disappear between WoD and Legion. Jaina, Genn, Sylvanas, etc. didn't disappear between BfA and Shadowlands.

The difference is we won't be spoon-fed dragon lore anymore in 11.0, because we're moving out of their territory. But their main players will still be important in the lore, especially considering we're likely going to get a Void expansion. Protecting Azeroth from the Hour of Twilight is kind of their thing. And remember, in Cayaclysm Nozdormu did suspect we hadn't seen the real HoT yet.

[Catastrophy349]

I think I speak for most of us when I say we’ll appreciate it more when you stop capitalising hype.

I’m not quite sure why you are so obsessed with what I write? I am excited like anyone/everyone else here, and speculating like anyone/everyone else here. It’s a “speculation” channel. If me capitalizing the word “HYPE” triggers you, then that’s a bigger problem you may need to figure out.

All in all, I’ll say what I want like everyone else here. None of us know the future, none of us know what will be announced/when (besides datamining hints), so enjoy the ride!

[Alanar]

Kinda agree. I abs. love dragon riding and races, especially kalimdor cup and also DF is a very nice xpac but my fun-with-dragon battery is also drained. It's not the worst theme but I think dragons were a better theme when they were those mystical baddies hiding in caves or in BWL. Too much friendly dragons for my taste.
But it was a good idea nontheless. Hoping for very grounded azeroth story next plus sprinkles of void and old gods

I agree to this as well. Its always the risk of using something so intensively, but I am also kinda drained with dragons. They do feel little to generic at this point. This also happened for me with Orcs and demons. The difference is that, you would expect huge numbers of orcs and demons. Dragons maybe not so much.

The story with the oathstones takes a little bit to long as well for me and we still have vyro and fyrak. They are a little bit unbelieveable at this point. They could have destroyed so much on the dragon isle at this point. Either frozen or burned to death. Personally I am not really invested in these stories anymore, but ofc I want to see some conclusion. It would have been better I think of we had something completely different in between. I thought reclaiming Gilneas was a great idea to squeeze in, just to have something else going on.

Dragonflight was kinda grounded, but I would love an even more grounded expansion that starts on EK and Kalimdor for example, but than updated.

[Skildar]

I like the dragon isle being the home of dragons if it meant that there would be something to gain for them there other than nostalgia. Since our arrival we've noticed little evolution to their order and what it would mean to their settlements in the rest of Azeroth. We've seen little to no explanation as to what the oathstones should provide to them.

Frankly I'm more interested in dragons as behemoths that see us as equals to gnolls. Beasts that have a superior intelligence than us though are also driven by an insatiable appetite. For now we've mostly seen inoffensive friendly pets that are also able to take human form.

The incarnates are the embodiment of what I'd expect from dragons thus why I'm rooting for them. Characters like Irion and Sabellians worked better when they're not making you feel like they're nothing without you which is what most friendly dragons do...

[Piertje1984]

When will they announce 10.2 ? Will that be this weekend @gamescom or are we going to have to wait after sept 5? What do you all expect?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I like the dragon isle being the home of dragons if it meant that there would be something to gain for them there other than nostalgia. Since our arrival we've noticed little evolution to their order and what it would mean to their settlements in the rest of Azeroth. We've seen little to no explanation as to what the oathstones should provide to them.

Frankly I'm more interested in dragons as behemoths that see us as equals to gnolls. Beasts that have a superior intelligence than us though are also driven by an insatiable appetite. For now we've mostly seen inoffensive friendly pets that are also able to take human form.

The incarnates are the embodiment of what I'd expect from dragons thus why I'm rooting for them. Characters like Irion and Sabellians worked better when they're not making you feel like they're nothing without you which is what most friendly dragons do...

Dragons being more then just giant creatures that have no sentience is what makes them interesting in the first place. If they were all just hostile, it wouldn't be that much different from other settings. Also lol @ rooting for the incarnates.

[Nebron]

I really don't get the discussion about the 10.3 being cancelled. Like, what suggests that claim?

Shadowlands most probably had been planned for 4 raid tiers, but their development plans possibly got changed due to Shadowlands being a failure, so they transfered the workforce to Dragonflight. Tazavesh presumably has been a scrapped content later used as megadungeon and instead we got Korthia lacking any content overall.

Dragonflght was released at the end of November 2022. Second raid tier has been released on May 2023 (6 months later). 10.2 Might be released on November 2023 (yet another 6 months period). Then it's easy to assume, that if everything goes according to plan, 10.3 could be released, again on May, 2024, which gives us 6 months until November 2024 - 11.0.

It could even be a bit smaller raid tier released with raid affixes.
Right now, WoW is probably at the finest patch content release cadence. It's not that wild to assume 10.3 is happening. It's harder to see a contrary argument.

And again, in recent times, 3 raid tiers per expansion happened only in Shadowlands. One can say it was a pandemic time with work-from-home system, that simply is not efficient. And besides, the expansion had it's own problems.
Battle for Azeroth had Uldir, Zuldazar battle, the Eternal Palace, Ny'alotha. Legion had even 3-boss raid.

So I can't see the reason to abandon the patch cycle they prepared for Dragonlifht, especially that they release the road maps, and if 10.3 wasn't happening, then there would be only a megadungeon and cosmetics for majority of the year (10.2 would be pretty fresh at the beginning of 2024).

[Sondrelk]

When will they announce 10.2 ? Will that be this weekend @gamescom or are we going to have to wait after sept 5? What do you all expect?

Impossible to say. If 10.2 is coming out roughly 2 months after 10.1.7 like the previous patches then I would expect us to see it now. But next week seems like a safe bet given the Vendor build was updated.

[Santandame]

I’m not quite sure why you are so obsessed with what I write? I am excited like anyone/everyone else here, and speculating like anyone/everyone else here. It’s a “speculation” channel. If me capitalizing the word “HYPE” triggers you, then that’s a bigger problem you may need to figure out.

All in all, I’ll say what I want like everyone else here. None of us know the future, none of us know what will be announced/when (besides datamining hints), so enjoy the ride!

Relax mate it wasn’t that deep.

On topic - agreed with the sentiment that friendly dragon fatigue is starting to settle in. I loved how dragons were presented in classic. I remember first hearing about one being in Duskwood and I wanted to seek it out because “wow dragons”. The feeling when I first found it was amazing and it genuinely felt like a huge, mystical moment in game. I know that ship has long sailed since then, but that was my preferred depiction of them.

I’m just ready for something more grounded similar to what we initially got in EK/Kalimdor in classic. I want a heavy dose of politics on some zones especially. I’m not too keen on the power level creep. As much as I’m a fan of Dragonball, I’d prefer to keep that aspect away from WoW.

I’m all aboard the revamp or exploring a new frontier train.

[Skildar]

Dragons being more then just giant creatures that have no sentience is what makes them interesting in the first place. If they were all just hostile, it wouldn't be that much different from other settings. Also lol @ rooting for the incarnates.

when talking about beasts that have a superior intelligence than us I was referring to dragons I'd like to see.

I'm rooting for the incarnates, probably against any hope, because they bring flavour whereas the aspects do not

[Yzmor]

I like how you hone in on one small detail in a long post, and just make a blanket "no thanks" statement based on that, lol.

I don't think dragons will play a large part of 11.0, but it's naive to think they'd just be gone like that.

Khadgar didn't disappear between WoD and Legion. Jaina, Genn, Sylvanas, etc. didn't disappear between BfA and Shadowlands.

The difference is we won't be spoon-fed dragon lore anymore in 11.0, because we're moving out of their territory. But their main players will still be important in the lore, especially considering we're likely going to get a Void expansion. Protecting Azeroth from the Hour of Twilight is kind of their thing. And remember, in Cayaclysm Nozdormu did suspect we hadn't seen the real HoT yet.

Everyone is entitled to have an opinion. I'm just sharing mine.

The characters you mentioned, I like.
Dragons portrayed in a DF manner on the other hand, not so much. As opposed to the majority of previous main characters--both antagonists and protagonists (we don't talk about Zovaal)--they have zero personality, everyone is Disney, even the "evil" is portrayed in a bedtime story manner, all of our (new) non-dragon allies are fat seal people, horse people, mole people, bear people(?), everyone has to be some kind of friendly-looking animal, and I'm tired.

I just don't feel like I'm able to get immersed in the story, I'm dying to finally do something not dragon related.

I understand, however, what you're saying, and as far as their role in the next expac is so minor and negligible that I can even ignore it completely while those who like DF still find some comfort in being able to connect with their beloved characters via easter eggs and side quest chains, I'm fine.

Also, I'm very much in if it's Void coming up next. But I think it's like the 10.2 announcement was this week--lost hope.

[Sondrelk]

I really don't get the discussion about the 10.3 being cancelled. Like, what suggests that claim?

Domsaying.
Expansions have been cut short before, and some people feel that it's going to happen again this expansion. I would assume because that would make it very easy for Blizzard to have a 9 month break in DF content to let the developers work fully on 11.0.

Personally I think it's unlikely. Dragonflight is predicated entirely on the idea that Blizzard wants to regain trust, and I don't think they would dare gamble on player goodwill by willingly cutting a patch. Even by the logic that WoD was cut down to really focus on Legion I can't see it. 11.0 would have to be the most trascendentally great expansion to rid the developers of what would by that point be a permanent stain on content cycles.

From a storytlling perspective it would be really weird as well. All signs point to 10.2 being the dream. And unless the Dream is heavily focused on the Titan keepers there simply isntenough time to end all the main plotlines currently present in Dragonflight. The next expansion dragging the story of DF alongside it would be even worse. It would just make 11.0 feel like an extended 10.3 patch, much in the same way much of Shadowlands felt like an extended BfA patch.

[Santandame]

Dragons being more then just giant creatures that have no sentience is what makes them interesting in the first place. If they were all just hostile, it wouldn't be that much different from other settings. Also lol @ rooting for the incarnates.

The guy you quoted literally wasn’t advocating for that though - dragons that are giant beasts with no sentience; quite the opposite. They want behemoths of much superior intelligence to us that are also driven by insatiable hunger and greed. Much like how dragons have traditionally been depicted in fantasy, such as Smaug.

How did you completely miss their point and make out they were advocating for something they weren’t when they were literally clear as day with their post?

[Murlocos]

I believe that Shadowlands suffered from a breakdown in their development cycle rather than being abandoned for Dragonflight. Aside from the lawsuit which undoubtedly severely impacted morale, it's likely that the systems-heavy structure of SL exacerbated content development and tuning time. Even if the team had a more productive environment for SL, I still don't think the design of it would have enabled the more rapid fire development we see now. It used to be that your spec was likely locked into their playstyle for an entire expansion, now we get class reworks in mid-season patches.

I don't see any way a missing 10.3 goes over well with the community unless 11.0 is a full scale revamp all available at launch. All it would spell is that nothing has truly changed and we're right back to a very lengthy content drought while you cross your fingers that the next expansion is good, instead of keeping the playerbase energized and excited for the entire duration of an expansion all the way up to launch for a change. "Nothing has truly changed" is not the vibe Blizzard can afford right now.

[Piertje1984]

Impossible to say. If 10.2 is coming out roughly 2 months after 10.1.7 like the previous patches then I would expect us to see it now. But next week seems like a safe bet given the Vendor build was updated.

Yeh I thought so. I am currently not playing but waiting for 10.2 since I love the lore about the dream and would really like to play there... if we go there offcourse but everything is pointing that way.

[Sondrelk]

I believe that Shadowlands suffered from a breakdown in their development cycle rather than being abandoned for Dragonflight. Aside from the lawsuit which undoubtedly severely impacted morale, it's likely that the systems-heavy structure of SL exacerbated content development and tuning time. Even if the team had a more productive environment for SL, I still don't think the design of it would have enabled the more rapid fire development we see now. It used to be that your spec was likely locked into their playstyle for an entire expansion, now we get class reworks in mid-season patches.

I don't see any way a missing 10.3 goes over well with the community unless 11.0 is a full scale revamp all available at launch. All it would spell is that nothing has truly changed and we're right back to a very lengthy content drought while you cross your fingers that the next expansion is good, instead of keeping the playerbase energized and excited for the entire duration of an expansion all the way up to launch for a change. "Nothing has truly changed" is not the vibe Blizzard can afford right now.

Abandoned is probably not the right word. But like WoD it's clear that SL was supposed to have more stuff that got scrapped in favor of a stable 2 year expansion cycle.
Warlords of Draenor was almost certainly supposed to have a Shattrath raid. And Shadowlands I imagine would have had a raid against the Drust.

The reason I feel that wouldnt happen for DF is that the patch that I would have scrapped would probably have been the Dream themed one 10.2 likely is. It's not entirely relevant to the main plot like what a hypothetical Avaloren/Titan Keeper themed patch would be.