The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[micwini]

Is DF a filler xpac ?

People say 'filler expac' often, but you can really only attribute it after the next one comes out. DF being filler depends on what the next expansion is. So far the only expacs that have felt like fillers are cata and wod. Both served the purpose of bridging a gap and taking a 'pause' so to say. Cata system wise (going from leveling being the main focus to endgame) and WoD was mostly the gap towards the new way of developing content (modules instead of adding on top of content which they did from classic to mop). I think WoD also restructured their back end file shit (CASC) or something.
DF fills like filler so far (revamping core systems like UI, talents and profs), but if the next expansion is just more of the same, then it just means that this is the way forward instead of a 'bridging the gap' situation.

[Santandame]

Sure, in the same way that they wrapped WoD and SL. That went fantastic, right?

We have to see how 10.2 plays out, but it is safe to say that it will be focused in the Green Dragonflight, Night Elves, the Emerald Dream, maybe some Elune and Titan lore... but I do not believe that Tyr will be heavily involved. So we still have left as possible threads:

- Red Dragonflight, which have done absolutely nothing in DF as of yet.
- Green Dragonflight's aftermath after 10.2.
- Bronze Dragonflight's unresolved plot (guess that we will not see more of them in DF, but still unresolved).
- Blue Dragonfliight's plot. We just gathered them, but they have done nothing in DF, as the Reds.
- Everything about Tyr and the Keepers.
- Vyranoth's purpose, as I doubt that Blizzard would kill her in 10.2.
- The Dracthyr's. We still do not know why Neltharion was so scared of them.
- They can even bring the Void and Iridikron for a 10.3.

Bonus points for Avaloren or The Other Side of Azeroth or the new Dwarves, but I guess that those are threads for future expansions. But all the rest? Tell me how you can deal with all that in a non-dragon themed expansion.

- Red Dragons can be given their own Blue Dragonflight storyline. Why do they need an entire patch revolved around them? They can be given a long quest chain during the epilogue of the expansion that further delves into the Tyr/Titan Keeper = Bad storyline which will very likely be a major theme of a future expansion, as well as resolving the Alex/Vyranoth storyline.
- Why can't the Green Dragonflight's storyline be resolved during 10.2 - the patch that they will be the focus of?
- What is unresolved regarding the Bronze? We've successfully thwarted the Infinites for now; they will likely be the focus of a future expansion.
- Their storyline has been resolved.
- See the point about the Red dragons.
- See the point about the red dragons.
- Pretty much resolved but can be touched upon in the epilogue if absolutely needed.
- Clearly the set up for the focus of a future expansion.

Avaloren, other side of Azeroth, Khaz Algar are also plot threads for future expansions. Why does everything introduced in Dragonflight need to be resolved here? Certain elements like the aforementioned have been introduced in Dragonflight so they aren't random asspulls when 11.0/12.0/13.0 are announced and we're revealed to be going to Avaloren which we haven't heard of.

10.2 can easily be a satisfying ending for Dragonflight. It started with the Primals, the Primals were the primary threat throughout, it ends with the Primals.

[Valysar]

What is a filler expac? I mean it is not resolving any long standing stories so I guess that would make it filler.

For me it's a "small" xpac that brings to a bigger xpac where the real story is.

[Reive]

For me it's a "small" xpac that brings to a bigger xpac where the real story is

depends tbh. it's all in the hands of patch 10.2 and 10.3 (if it happens). so far yes, it's a filler expansion

[Darkarath]

I don't know why you expect more from the Blues. That's all you can expect for their story; they are now a family again and they don't need some purpose that furthers the narrative, they were dealt with by being a world building block. Green and Red could use the same. Bronze sadly they have chosen to stay with this roster and not expand like they did with the Blues (even thought hey are among the more numerous flights). Vyranoth will be resolved vs Fyrakk and either die or be part of future expacs. Do remember that we will likely get a 10.2.5 and 10.2.7 so her plot can be resolved in either of those.
I will give you the Tyr plot. I expect it will be resolved much sooner or that it will be the plot that leads to the next xpac. It's possible Tyr awakens in 10.2.7, elevates them all back to Aspects and then leads us to the next xpac vs whatever Iridikron is planning.

And in no way am I saying I want this to happen. But I am not going to rule it out. A few months of decent patch cadence is not going to make me forget previous Blizzard decisions.

- The Dragonflights are at war, and so are the Blues. One would believe that they would gather their last remnants of their flight to do something. But you are right, I might be expecting too much from Blizzard.

- The Reds are unavoidable. You cannot have an expansion about Dragons, and do nothing with their most important flight.

- Vyranoth has to be dealt within DF, or at least give her a purpose for future expansions. I doubt that they would kill two Incarnates in one patch. Fyrakk seems obvious, but not Vyranoth. Not dealing with Vyranoth in DF would be like not dealing with Blackhand in WoD. They belong to that theme and that expansion unless there is a reason to keep them alive. We have yet to see that reason.

- I agree that the Aspects might be elevated before 10.3, but if that happens what we do with the rest of the plots?

- And while we are at it, DF could perfectly develop from where the hell so many Primalists came and what the hell are the Elemental Lords doing.

As you see, plenty of plots to resolve. Do not get me wrong, I know that Blizzard is capable of cutting short this expansion. But there are plenty of options to follow in a possible 10.3.

[Annihilas]

I would say... bon appetit! :P

After he lessons learned by the feedback of the SL theme, I highly doubt they will use an out of azeroth setting and theme again as the main theme/setting.
If datamining really points in this direction (which I overlooked then?) then it could only be a b-plot/ patch, IMO

And the 20th event would IMO more require a "true azeroth/warcraft" theme. Like a world revamp

I highly disagree that being "an out of Azeroth setting" was even remotely a reason for SL bad feedback. Literally every other time it was fine, so I'd wager that there's much more to the story there. I'd even go as far to say the "lore nugget" of any other planet we know of, is more fleshed out than Shadowlands was, before we even stepped foot in that place. Shadowlands was sort of just barely mentioned, like three times before that expansion was ever announced, and that wasn't really a place we thought we needed to go to. It is very different to visiting known planets with long established enemies, with lore that is already a decade-and-a-half in the making. There "seems" to be more people who really want this compared to people that "might" not, it really grew on people over the years and any pertaining lore has expanded a lot over that time. Can anyone even say that much about Shadowlands? No! It had absolutely zero build-up and had neutral excitement for it at best... Plus, like Cataclysm (also criticized), SL separated each of it zones in unintuitive and annoying ways. Those are the reasons people felt bad about the actual setting, the unsolved mystery-after-mystery and the Jailer's 5D chess defeat adding more mystery instead of big expansion-ending answers, that only would enhance the issues with the setting in the players' eyes.

[Worldshaper]

Hmmm... from the final page of A Song of the Depths.

"The Harbinger speaks of a primal power that seeks the end of Order. Such rage can be bent to serve our ends.

A hunger lost to the ages will be reclaimed.

A dark heart left broken awaits the taking."

Fyrakk:

"I will kill every dragon that stands between me and the power in that great tree's heart."

Are the words just coincidental, or could the heart of the world tree be the one the prophecy speaks of?

[Catastrophy349]

(IMO) If we walk out of Dragonflight with an overhaul to base systems of the game (flying, talents, UI, professions, graphics), new villains, plot points being set up for future story, and “some” resolutions to current stories within DF, then the expansion was a success (at-least for me). 10.2.5/.7 or 10.3 as the final patch literally means nothing to me as long as what we get is both satisfying and/or able to continue into what’s next (11.0).

They’ve said that they don’t want to have a strong “contained story” going forward, so leaving stuff open for the future is doing just that.

[Santandame]

Hmmm... from the final page of A Song of the Depths.

"The Harbinger speaks of a primal power that seeks the end of Order. Such rage can be bent to serve our ends.

A hunger lost to the ages will be reclaimed.

A dark heart left broken awaits the taking."

Fyrakk:

"I will kill every dragon that stands between me and the power in that great tree's heart."

Are the words just coincidental, or could the heart of the world tree be the one the prophecy speaks of?

Total coincidence.

[Annihilas]

Why is DF basically one cycle of patch content behind an expansion that had one cycle of patch content more dev time? I guess, we will never know.

Remember that 7.1.0 wasn't a huge patch. it had a megadungeon, of which 50% were reused assets, the Halls of Valor raid which als consisted of mostly reused assets and the Suramar questline. You can't compare that to f.e. 10.1 which introduced a new zone, a full new raid new rep, new outdoor content in the Dragon isles etc.

Not saying Legion had less launch content that DF, but if you draw a comparison, you should draw a fair one.

I think it is similar in terms of amount... my gripe is there isn't really much longevity/replayability. Maybe that's the reason?

[micwini]

Hmmm... from the final page of A Song of the Depths.

"The Harbinger speaks of a primal power that seeks the end of Order. Such rage can be bent to serve our ends.

A hunger lost to the ages will be reclaimed.

A dark heart left broken awaits the taking."

Fyrakk:

"I will kill every dragon that stands between me and the power in that great tree's heart."

Are the words just coincidental, or could the heart of the world tree be the one the prophecy speaks of?

Most likely just refers to Yshaarj's heart

[Cheezits]

Most likely just refers to Yshaarj's heart

That's what I'm thinking. Maybe Iri is trying to collect something related to every old god?

Cthun: ??? (time to go back to the sword?)
Yogg: Galakrond's corruption that Yogg caused
Yshaarj: Yshaarj's heart
N'zoth: ??? (maybe the essence that may have been sucked into the Xalatath dagger?)

Maybe when you merge stuff from the four old gods it creates something.

[Makabreska]

10.2. will release this autumn. With next expansion releasing in October-November 2024 that would leave full year gap between them and fated re-released of the raids can help only so little.

Pure guesswork when we will have next expansion. Just becasue they used to release them in autumn does not mean they will hold it if they can release it earlier. Or create extra full content patch (that would postpone next expansion release even further).

So you reckon we will kill both Fyrakk and Iridickron in Emerald Dream?

Nope. Fyrakk will be the end boss, and Iridikron a link to next expansion.

Calling it dragonriding doesn't make sense once most of the mounts involved are not in fact dragons. That's why the complete opening up will come in 11.0 with name change once Dragon related branding is not important anymore.

So it will be Dragonriding in everything but the name. This way you can say you were always right, saying DR is a DF feature only.

- - - Updated - - -

Is DF a filler xpac ?

"Filler xpac" lost it's meaning ages ago, and is now used to describe expansions someone does not like/does not want to acknowledge, for reasons. You say "filler" means to you how important is the story. But DF brought for example the biggest overhaul of classes and specs ever. Is it meaningless?

[Woggmer]

(IMO) If we walk out of Dragonflight with an overhaul to base systems of the game (flying, talents, UI, professions, graphics), new villains, plot points being set up for future story, and “some” resolutions to current stories within DF, then the expansion was a success (at-least for me). 10.2.5/.7 or 10.3 as the final patch literally means nothing to me as long as what we get is both satisfying and/or able to continue into what’s next (11.0).

They’ve said that they don’t want to have a strong “contained story” going forward, so leaving stuff open for the future is doing just that.

Although I doubt it to be the case, that one leak from a Chinese user did guessed a lot of stuff correct, and mentioned that 10.0 and 11.0 would be focused around Dragons and Elementals in the same vein as Cata did. Unlike Cata where they tried to squeeze both stories into one expansion, here it could be they want to spread it out with DF and the focus of Dragons being a Part 1 while 11.0 being a Part 2 where it will focus more on the Elementals.

Which would make the most sense as BFA did tease the disappearance of the newly elected Firelord when the Cult of Ragneros showed up. Neptulon being on the war-path to hunt down Azshara and her Naga.. Prince Thunderaan could be in the middle of a air-elemental civil war with Prince Sarsarun over who claims to be the new Windlord... and Therazane has been kept neutral, but if Iridikron survives DF.. there's a great chance that he will try to go after her and try to hold her hostage.... This is where we have to get the help of the Earthen who are familiar with the underground tunnels of Azeroth and we'll eventually come across the Undermine.

....That's just my theory though I doubt it'll work.

- - - Updated - - -

Most likely just refers to Yshaarj's heart

...But we destroyed that heart back in MoP, it faded from existence because all of its power was used up.

As the adventurers neared victory, Garrosh absorbed all of the Heart's power in a last-ditch move that transformed him into an avatar of Y'Shaarj. When even this monstrous form was defeated, the last power of Y'Shaarj drained away and left behind nothing but a Fading Breath that soon vanished as well.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Heart_of_Y'Shaarj

Unless there's something else that Y'shaarj had that we don't know about that the Titan Constructs have been hiding from us.

[Cherry123]

This expansion looks like a boring filler in terms of storytelling, but since the locations and gameplay are nice, people enjoy the game just by skipping plot points. low-poly villains do not have strong charisma. This Charmander from the 2000s is so ugly and forgettable that it's easier for me to forget him than to remember.

Okay, I'll wait until Xal'atath appears.

[Cheezits]

This expansion looks like a boring filler in terms of storytelling, but since the locations and gameplay are nice, people enjoy the game just by skipping plot points. low-poly villains do not have strong charisma. This Charmander from the 2000s is so ugly and forgettable that it's easier for me to forget him than to remember.

Okay, I'll wait until Xal'atath appears.

More importantly, the gameplay is good. Unless you play Hunter.

- - - Updated - - -

Although I doubt it to be the case, that one leak from a Chinese user did guessed a lot of stuff correct, and mentioned that 10.0 and 11.0 would be focused around Dragons and Elementals in the same vein as Cata did. Unlike Cata where they tried to squeeze both stories into one expansion, here it could be they want to spread it out with DF and the focus of Dragons being a Part 1 while 11.0 being a Part 2 where it will focus more on the Elementals.

While I think the huge Chinese leak is BS and mostly based on correct pattern guessing, I think that 11.0 having an elemental aspect to it makes a lot of sense. They are dragging their feet with the Primalist lore and seemingly have ignored the Earthen Ring and Elemental Lords almost entirely, but this would make sense if there is a heavy amount of elemental plots spread throughout Azeroth in 11.0 and would reflect on the overall Cataclysm 2 idea that goes with a revamp.

This also explains why Magatha has yet to appear, and why Thrall is on the Blizzcon poster.

I'm guessing 11.0 will have a lot of different aesthetics and plots, but if you are making Cata 2 you will definitely want to market the element stuff and Thrall fits the bill. And if Jinyu are a new race they fit both Water (I believe they worship Neptulon) and Islands themes, whichever way you want to go.

It would be a pipedream but one race for each element would be a lot of fun. Something like...

Water- Jinyu
Fire- Drakonids???
Air- Djiin or Arrakoa
Earth- Mogu

[Alanar]

You know that blizz can design tyrhold with the whisper in mind right

I just dont care man. There is so much reaching and speculation that I will just wait and see.

[Scyth]

This expansion looks like a boring filler in terms of storytelling, but since the locations and gameplay are nice, people enjoy the game just by skipping plot points. low-poly villains do not have strong charisma. This Charmander from the 2000s is so ugly and forgettable that it's easier for me to forget him than to remember.

Okay, I'll wait until Xal'atath appears.

Story has been much better than anything we've got since Legion, for me at least. To each their own

[Alanar]

I just hope, that next xpack won't have sea theme again. This theme is extremely boring. Xpacks, where some themes are rehashed - are xpacks I hate the most. Like Cata for example. We had opportunity to make sea-themed xpack back in BFA. It has been wasted. We don't need "second attempt" just 2 xpacks after that.

The sea theme wasnt really the focus, besides maybe Vash ir, which I personally loved. Despite what some people say about this zone, this zone captured the fear of being underwater quite well.

I dont really consider bfa an actual south sea expansion, but to each their own ofc. I agree the story of zin'ashari and what we got was extremely disappointing.

[Cheezits]

The sea wasnt really the focus, besides maybe Vash ir, which I personally loved. Despite what some people say ablit this zone, this zone captured the fear of being underwater quite well.

I dont really consider bfa an actual south sea expansion, but to each their own ofc. I agree the story of zin'ashari and what we got was extremely disappointing.

It helps that only one island (Zandalar) in the expansion was part of the South Seas.