The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Teriz]

But that's really not the same situation. Pet Battles are this unique, totally-separate-from-the-rest-of-the-game feature whos rewards are purely cosmetic. In this hypothetical, if they added Ship-to-ship combat into the game what the heck would we be fighting with it? Azeroth's sea is full of pirates. There's canonically an entire independent pirate nation southwest of Stranglethorn. It would be at-least as pirate-centric as BFA was at launch, which people are still on the fence of if that can be considered a pirate expansion.

My point is that Blizzard isn't going to create an entire expansion over a feature like ship-to-ship battles. If history has told us anything, stuff like that typically gets left on the cutting-room floor like vehicle battles in WotLK.

And don't get semantic on what the definition of pirate means, as a theme, pirate both includes the people doing the pirating & the naval apparatus that hunts them.

Sounds like what we experienced in Kul'tiras.....

It works as a set up but from what we know about blizzard's workflow, implying a villainous yrel in the Maghar acquisition questline would have been the work of one or two people: Same goes for evil Alleria wanting to capture the Sunwell. It's not indicative of where the actual director of the game wants to go storywise.

The difference is that the Yrel threat is an active, massive, world-ending threat that is mainly contained by her not being able to reach Azeroth. Alleria seeking to capture the sunwell is not. It also should be noted that WoD began because of a Bronze drake working with Wrathion, and we're dealing with Bronze and infinite drakes messing with the timelines currently in DF.

[Hitei]

I mean, the First Ones made every force, so it's definitely not the only one, but it is arguably the "most significant" for our Design.

You misunderstand. The Pattern is what is the only notable work, and that Pattern is fundamentally the Light and Void. The "7th" as implied so far is just a disruptive remnant. Its whole existence is just being a thing a challenge to that fundamental, even it technically only exists in reference to the Light and Void.

It's possible in the future they might introduce something else. But right now the Light vs Void is literally the magnum opus of the First Ones and the basis of all reality.

[Woggmer]

They should go with Life/Dream/Druid dungeons to fit the Emerald Dream theme of the patch. So something like this for the 10.2 dungeon pool would be pretty good

Well, they don't exactly follow a particular theme for selecting the 4 Old dungeons. (Season 1 had Court of Stars, Halls of Valor, Shadowmoon Burial Grounds, and Temple of the Jade Serpent. Season 2 has Freehold, The Underrot, Neltharion's Lair, and Vortex Pinnacle.)

What I'm thinking is that they'll do 4 Old dungeons, but one of those dungeons will be a reference to the Emerald Dream which is obviously, Darkheart Thicket. However with Freehold in Season 2, if they decide to put in Deadmines (Heroic version with Vanessa Vancleef) as part of the roster, then it could confirm that the next expansion is pirate theme'd.

Before Freehold, Deadmines was thee closest thing to a "pirate" theme dungeon even if it was near the end. (Edit: If we don't get Deadmines in the Season 3, then it'll just deconfirm it and shrug it off like nothing.)


....But in terms of dungeons, I only hope they don't bring in Stonecore for Season 3.

[huth]

But we have to account for more than just our Cosmology.

No, we don't. Anything outside the cosmology is not relevant by definition.

[Teriz]

It would be incredibly lame and terrible writing.

And you know this how exactly?

“Hey I know we’ve been setting up THIS bad guy throughout all of Dragonflight and earlier… but let’s ‘FlIp ThE ScRiPt and SuBvErT ExPeCtAtIoNs’ by throwing all of that away to bring in someone who had 30 seconds of screen time in one very short scenario as a villain.”

You honestly believe that Nightsquall is some massive threat being set up throughout Dragonflight and earlier? If he appears at all, it's probably going to be some mini-dungeon boss. Also you believing that Nightsquall has more ability to move units and interest than Yrel is laughable. Yrel is a pretty major WC character while we don't even know what Nightsquall looks like.

In the end, a conclusion to the WoD storyline lines up quite well with Thrall being on the promotional art for BlizCon '23, and the 10th anniversary of the expansion. With all the Bronze and Infinite dragon shenanigans occurring in DF, it's only a matter of time before someone opens a portal to AU Draenor.

[huth]

You honestly believe that Nightsquall is some massive threat being set up throughout Dragonflight and earlier? If he appears at all, it's probably going to be some mini-dungeon boss. Also you believing that Nightsquall has more ability to move units and interest than Yrel is laughable. Yrel is a pretty major WC character while we don't even know what Nightsquall looks like.

Yrel is a minor character that had next to no relevance in the last 8 years. Anybody who didn't play WoD likely has no idea who she is.

[Catastrophy349]

Don't forget we have this jewel datamined for 10.1.7 next week:

10.1.7 Tyr Scenario - Black Empire

We know that there are two questlines with Chromie (one with an enemy and Nozdormu) and the other involving Tyr.

Let's make some "educated guesses" on what we think these two storylines will entail?

NO LIMITS
Chromie barters for a truce between the bronze dragonflight and one of its sworn enemies, leading Nozdormu on an unexpected adventure.
REFORGING TYR PART 3
Chromie and a new friend join the search for the lost Disc of Tyr. To aid their efforts, Travard rebuilds the legendary Tyr's Guard, righteous paladins dedicated to representing the values of Tyr across Azeroth. Reforging Tyr Part 3 requires completing "Infinity and Beyond" in the No Limits questline to begin, and rewards Gold and White Armor for dragonriding mounts.

[Teriz]

@Teriz some of the examples you’re using at the moment are poor, and it’s starting to veer into outright lying territory.

Blizzard couldn’t make an entire continent out of a sea-faring nation so they introduced other threats…? So like every other expansion ever introduced?

Northrend wasn’t solely an Undead land. Threats included were also Vrykul, Iron Dwarves, Trolls, Furlbogs, Blue Dragons.

Pandaria wasn’t just Sha, it was also Mogu, Mantid, Yaungol, as well as the faction conflict thrown on top.

Draenor wasn’t just the Iron Horde, it was also the Legion, Ogres, Arakkoa, Botani and Saberon.

Broken Isles had Vrykul, Naga, Nightborne and the Nightmare.

The list goes on and on. Kul Tiras is not an outlier in this situation; it is the norm. What evidence do you have that Blizzard tacked on Zandalar and Mechagon to BfA just so it wouldn’t feel like a seafaring expansion?

Using your logic here, that would completely blow apart your own point a few pages back about Blizzard managing to diversify an Undermine landmass enough so it isn’t just Goblins by including various different themes to that?

You’re being ridiculously disingenuous at the moment.

You're a bit confused here, so let me go a bit more in depth;

For years people speculated that we would get a "South Seas" expansion where Kul'Tiras, Zalandar, Azshara, and N'Zoth would be the main selling points. In such an expansion, notions of ship to ship battles, pirates, and other stuff was inevitably brought up and considered. When we got to BFA all of those elements were in place, but clearly things were dialed back in multiple areas due to either technical constraints or simply thematic limitations. In short, the notion that Blizzard dev team didn't look at an expansion involving Azshara, N'Zoth, Jaina, Kul'tiras and general island hopping and couldn't come up with the notion of more pirate stuff is laughable. They obviously DID, which is why we got what we got in Kul'tiras and Island Expeditions. The issue is that a pirate theme is a highly limited theme that simply isn't going to carry an entire expansion. We KNOW this because it couldn't even carry the Kul'tiras portion of BFA.

Let's look at your WotLK example; No Northrend wasn't a completely undead land, but that's the point because as a storyteller you don't want a completely undead land. You want a land that is partially alive and partially undead to generate a conflict and give the heroes a foothold and stake in that conflict. That said, WotLK is clearly an "undead" expansion because the main character and antagonist is undead, and themes of undeath permeate the entire expansion, from the Vrykul to the Nerubians, to the blue dragons, to the Ice trolls, they're all fighting the undead at various levels and that makes the narrative interesting. Us dredging through nothing but undead in Northrend would be BORING, which is why the expansions are set up the way you outlined above. In fact your post doesn't disprove my point, it supports my point.

Consider Blizzard does a pirate expansion. What else is there? Are we going to venture to a new landmass where people are seafarers making their livelihood from the sea and dropping continuous pirate/sailor puns? Are we dragging Azshara and Nazjatar into it again? Are we propping up an N'Zoth stand in? Are we going to encounter another titan construct like Mother that is going to help us in our fight? Are we going to hop around on various islands looking for treasure?

Does all that sound familiar? It should.

- - - Updated - - -

Yrel is a minor character that had next to no relevance in the last 8 years. Anybody who didn't play WoD likely has no idea who she is.

Well they would because she also appears (multiple times) in Hearthstone and HotS. That's what we would call a franchise character. She also is relevant to the Mag'har allied race, and they came to WoW about 4 years ago.

[Cheezits]

I still think the most interesting foreshadowing in SL was whatever was going on with that sentient spider ghost in Firim's cave. creepy stuff.

https://www.wowhead.com/npc=185092/s...ik-tu#comments

https://www.wowhead.com/item=185930/...rt-a37j-part-3

I assume the 7th force is Entropy/the Devourers which will eat and consume everything in a way that doesn't allow for sentient life like Void/Fel corruption.

Edit: Reading the Irik-Tu stuff makes them sound like an agent of the Old Gods/Void who played Firim into helping kill the Jailer.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

I play orcs and i think it would be nice seeing yrel back besides stopping her crusade but also seeing the reaction of khadgar when she shows up.

I don't think we would end up killing her in the end, she would probably be written as being heavily corrupted by the naru.

[Cheezits]

I play orcs and i think it would be nice seeing yrel back besides stopping her crusade but also seeing the reaction of khadgar when she shows up.

I don't think we would end up killing her in the end, she would probably be written as being heavily corrupted by the naru.

Considering how pointless Khadgar is in DF so far, you have to wonder if the only reason he's here is to be surprised when Tyr brings Yrel here.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I still think the most interesting foreshadowing in SL was whatever was going on with that sentient spider ghost in Firim's cave. creepy stuff.

https://www.wowhead.com/npc=185092/s...ik-tu#comments

https://www.wowhead.com/item=185930/...rt-a37j-part-3

I assume the 7th force is Entropy/the Devourers which will eat and consume everything in a way that doesn't allow for sentient life like Void/Fel corruption.

Edit: Reading the Irik-Tu stuff makes them sound like an agent of the Old Gods/Void who played Firim into helping kill the Jailer.

The void does seem to consume everything(Want to) so... Entropy would need to do something else. Perhaps it isn't easy to be altered/corrupted by the other cosmic forces.

[Makabreska]

What’s going on in Eastern Plaguelands today?

Oh shit! You're alive!

[Santandame]

You're a bit confused here, so let me go a bit more in depth;

For years people speculated that we would get a "South Seas" expansion where Kul'Tiras, Zalandar, Azshara, and N'Zoth would be the main selling points. In such an expansion, notions of ship to ship battles, pirates, and other stuff was inevitably brought up and considered. When we got to BFA all of those elements were in place, but clearly things were dialed back in multiple areas due to either technical constraints or simply thematic limitations. In short, the notion that Blizzard dev team didn't look at an expansion involving Azshara, N'Zoth, Jaina, Kul'tiras and general island hopping and couldn't come up with the notion of more pirate stuff is laughable. They obviously DID, which is why we got what we got in Kul'tiras and Island Expeditions. The issue is that a pirate theme is a highly limited theme that simply isn't going to carry an entire expansion. We KNOW this because it couldn't even carry the Kul'tiras portion of BFA.

Let's look at your WotLK example; No Northrend wasn't a completely undead land, but that's the point because as a storyteller you don't want a completely undead land. You want a land that is partially alive and partially undead to generate a conflict and give the heroes a foothold and stake in that conflict. That said, WotLK is clearly an "undead" expansion because the main character and antagonist is undead, and themes of undeath permeate the entire expansion, from the Vrykul to the Nerubians, to the blue dragons, to the Ice trolls, they're all fighting the undead at various levels and that makes the narrative interesting. Us dredging through nothing but undead in Northrend would be BORING, which is why the expansions are set up the way you outlined above. In fact your post doesn't disprove my point, it supports my point.

Consider Blizzard does a pirate expansion. What else is there? Are we going to venture to a new landmass where people are seafarers making their livelihood from the sea and dropping continuous pirate/sailor puns? Are we dragging Azshara and Nazjatar into it again? Are we propping up an N'Zoth stand in? Are we going to encounter another titan construct like Mother that is going to help us in our fight? Are we going to hop around on various islands looking for treasure?

Does all that sound familiar? It should.

- - - Updated - - -



Well they would because she also appears (multiple times) in Hearthstone and HotS. That's what we would call a franchise character. She also is relevant to the Mag'har allied race, and they came to WoW about 4 years ago.

But it doesn’t support your point. You literally said that Blizzard had to include Drust, witches, N’Zoth, Zandalar and Mechagon alongside Kul Tiras so it wouldn’t be boring. Which is literally the norm for every single expansion, just like your Northrend example there.

You can’t just so fragrantly cherry pick to suit you. I think the only person here getting confused is you. Or you’re just being purposefully difficult.

[Cheezits]

What’s going on in Eastern Plaguelands today?

What IS going on in Eastern Plaguelands today?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

What IS going on in Eastern Plaguelands today?

Who knows, but.... I could see some Argent Crusade/Forsaken tensions and stuff like that.

[Cheezits]

Who knows, but.... I could see some Argent Crusade/Forsaken tensions and stuff like that.

Its probably a Secrets of Azeroth thing, but it's funny out of context.

https://www.bluetracker.gg/wow/topic...d-of-warcraft/

[Raetary]

What’s going on in Eastern Plaguelands today?

The dwarf has awoken from his hibernation.

It's time to bring forth the annual hype train.

[Ersula]

My point is that Blizzard isn't going to create an entire expansion over a feature like ship-to-ship battles. If history has told us anything, stuff like that typically gets left on the cutting-room floor like vehicle battles in WotLK.

If your point is now "Blizzard will create an expansion based on any motif they feel like" I would consider that a concession, because that definitely wasn't your point when you started.

Sounds like what we experienced in Kul'tiras.....

So exactly less than one half of that expansion? It's been 2 whole expansions; they can revisit those motifs.

The difference is that the Yrel threat is an active, massive, world-ending threat that is mainly contained by her not being able to reach Azeroth. Alleria seeking to capture the sunwell is not. It also should be noted that WoD began because of a Bronze drake working with Wrathion, and we're dealing with Bronze and infinite drakes messing with the timelines currently in DF.

Alleria has a compulsion to go near the sunwell, which releases horrible shadow monsters when she does.

Yrel isn't just on another planet, she's in another timeline, which by what Chromie describes, the Bronze's entire job is to tie off those timelines so they stop existing entirely. Right after we rescued those Mag'har surely, a bronze dragon assassinated Garrosh the moment he entered the timestream, eliminating the entire AU timeline. We're not even sure Yrel still exists at this moment. So I think Alleria is a bit more relevant.

But I will say a Yrel from our timeline, who was somehow on the Justicar instead of the Exodar when it left Argus, would be a solid villain for a light based antagonist. Turalyon & Alleria could also have their Garrosh moment from a similar storyline. Or they could be the rational light/void alterative...but I feel like they should use Calia for that, simply because she's a terrible character who badly needs a reason to exist in the story at all, and that would be it.

[Cheezits]

The dwarf has awoken from his hibernation.

It's time to bring forth the annual hype train.

Pretty crazy that we're little over two months out from an expansion reveal.