1. #14301
    Quote Originally Posted by Valysar View Post
    Raszageth : Air
    Fyrakk : Fire
    Iridikron : Earth
    Vyranoth : Water

    If it's not tied to elemental power, don't know what it is.
    But its not about the elemental lords, which is what the next expansion is supposed to be about. I hope its wrong tho, cause it would be really boring knowing all upcoming expansions for many years, even if blizzard probably knows about the leak and can change it. The leaker is 3/3 on expansions so far.

  2. #14302
    Quote Originally Posted by Valysar View Post
    In the meantime, Azeroth is still stabbed, and and they act as if nothing happened.
    You know why many veterans still have shrapnel in their body? Because removing it would make things worse than just leaving it. We don't have the means to remove the blade safely. Or at all, for that matter. So worrying about it would achieve nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zirr View Post
    But its not about the elemental lords, which is what the next expansion is supposed to be about. I hope its wrong tho, cause it would be really boring knowing all upcoming expansions for many years, even if blizzard probably knows about the leak and can change it. The leaker is 3/3 on expansions so far.
    Claiming that DF isn't focused on the elements when our main antagonists are explicitly and blatantly powered by them is rather ridiculous, though.

  3. #14303
    The Undying Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mecheon View Post
    Oh, so an established pirate location such as... Tel Abim, a place that has been mentioned in lore ever since Vanilla, showed up out of the blue in a recent book noting pirates visit it, and is one of the few Very Well Established places we haven't been to yet?

    That's the thing. Avoloren is the open 'could be anything' in this case, but we know the rest. Tel Abim has bananas. Therefore, it must be tropical, because all we know about the place is it has bananas. We've been to Kezan twice, we know what's there as well. Plunder Isle is another mystery (It was just a tropical island in Lands of Mystery), but its also a bit bland on name and I doubt anyone's going to be too upset about Plunder Isle being dropped or merged with the more well known Tel Abim
    I don't really buy that unless Avoloren is a southern continent, which is unlikely because Pandaria is WoW's southern continent. Further, Tel Abim makes more sense as a location in an Undermine expansion, where Kezan, Tanaris, Plunder Isle, and Booty Bay would be involved. Undermine works as a southern continent because the majority of its landmass is underground.

    I mean I'd love my Outland Revamp idea (because frankly Outland needs a revamp WAY more than the Cata zones do) and that'd involve Thrall, but we can't really say for sure on anything about it. Thrall heads over to Avoloren because pirates accidentally awoke a thing. Blam, Thrall's involved.
    I don't see that really being the case here. If we're dealing with pirates and ocean/void stuff, Azshara would be on the key art, not Thrall.

  4. #14304
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    You know why many veterans still have shrapnel in their body? Because removing it would make things worse than just leaving it. We don't have the means to remove the blade safely. Or at all, for that matter. So worrying about it would achieve nothing.

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    Claiming that DF isn't focused on the elements when our main antagonists are explicitly and blatantly powered by them is rather ridiculous, though.
    Agree, which is why it would be weird with an elemntal focused expansion next.

  5. #14305
    BFA must have been an ice expansion because jaina is quite clearly frost affiliated.

    My personal bet for the next expansion is just a remade Kalimdor. I've posted about it before but it wouldn't at all surprise me. Actually set the expansion alongside the time span of dragonflight. So rather than a story sequel, it's what's happening elsewhere. If it was then a remade Kalimdor with lore on Thrall investigating the elemental lords could actually explain why there is a huge gaping elemental lore gap in this expansion.

  6. #14306
    The Undying Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yzmor View Post
    Aaand this is why I'm saying--while I'm 100% team cosmic and would love to see Void as 11.0--the next expansion is some lame elemental s**t with Thrall leading the story because Blizz thinks the core playerbase would find it cool and nostalgic.

    Also, unpopular opinion, I frickin hate orcs; undead, any elves, dwarves, draenei are far more interesting races and though I understand that orcs were an integral part of the franchise back then--thank god their role is not that significant anymore, I'd be bored to Death/the 7th cosmic force--I really hope the 20-year anniversary is not some Thrall nostalgia, I'm not even buying the expansion if they pull this elemental bull with him being the main character--which is extremely possible at this point, unforfunately.

    If people will love it, I'm happy (?) though, just like with DF, I hate it and been doing legacy content only for quite a while now, but I find its success a great thing for the developers, they must feel very satisfied, it's a good feeling to see that what you've worked on brings happiness to people, so I'm trying not to be selfish and childish and say the game should perish just because I don't like its current expansion, but I'm still hoping deep down that one day they'll ship some new content I, too, am fond of.
    It could very well be Thrall utilizing Azeroth's elements to fight back against the Lightbound army. I believe the main point is that Thrall, like Sylvanas in Shadowlands and Jaina in BFA is going to be a major character and plot driver in the next expansion's story. It's fitting, because Thrall has been on the sidelines for awhile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nibelheimy View Post
    BFA must have been an ice expansion because jaina is quite clearly frost affiliated.
    Jaina is Kul'tiran, and getting Kul'tiras into the alliance was a big part of BFA's story.

    Also;
    Last edited by Teriz; 2023-09-03 at 12:10 PM.

  7. #14307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valysar View Post
    Raszageth : Air
    Fyrakk : Fire
    Iridikron : Earth
    Vyranoth : Water

    If it's not tied to elemental power, don't know what it is.
    The elements are obviously present, but they receive next to no actual attention.
    Everything revolving around the incarnates and the primalists is primarily draconic lore.

    We have yet to hear about any shamanic faction like the earthen ring.
    The elemental lords are completely absent.
    We have no idea how the incarnates ended up empowered.

    Whenever elemental lore does pop up, like the wellspring beneath Tyrhold or the source of primal flame in Zaralek, it's always overshadowed by being tied to another theme entirely.
    Whether it's Dragons, Titans or Old Gods.
    Last edited by Raetary; 2023-09-03 at 12:28 PM.


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  8. #14308
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    Once again, Teriz is arguing points that only make sense in hindsight. Sylvanas being on the promo art meant Sylvanas will be relevant (which was hardly a surprise, seeing how BFA ended), and the BFA keyart meant Jaina will be relevant.
    I would argue that there's a difference between being relevant and being a driver of a plot. Jaina and Sylvanas were those things in both BFA and Shadowlands respectively. Sylvanas being a prime example of this by being in the opening cinematic of Shadowlands and being the character that initiates the expansion by kidnapping leaders and opening the portal. In any case, I'm looking to Thrall either being Jaina's level in BFA or Sylvanas' level in Shadowlands. Given that this is going to be WoW's 20th anniversary expansion, the 100% prediction rate guy, and Chris Metzen's supposed involvement, I'm leaning towards Sylvanas in Shadowlands level Thrall involvement, where he's in the opening cinematic and maybe even on the cover.

    As for expansion theme, it's still Lightbound invasion. Interestingly, the orcs that fled Draenor in BFA claimed that Yrel's Lightbound army somehow destroyed Draenor's ecosystem, and led to a planetary collapse. That plot point could be utilized as a reason (excuse) for Thrall using Azeroth's elements to protect the world from whatever destructive magic Yrel and the Naaru are employing.


    Whelp, backing my theory some more, Gul'dan was on the Key art for Gamescon 2015 right before Legion was announced;

    Last edited by Teriz; 2023-09-03 at 12:42 PM.

  9. #14309
    i'd rather have a pirate themed expansion than one based on elements. elements in wow are boring as fuck.

  10. #14310
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    The elements are obviously present, but they receive next to no actual attention.
    Everything revolving around the incarnates and the primalists is primarily draconic lore.
    Did you actually play DF? The elemental influence plays a major role. And besides, the whole identity of the Incarnates is element empowered dragons. Outside of their elemental powers, they're just bog-standard Protodragons.

  11. #14311
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Did you actually play DF?
    Did you read my fucking post?
    You just described draconic lore.

    The elements don't stand on their own this expansion, they are secondary to the major narrative of the dragon conflict and void/titan shenanigans.


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  12. #14312
    Quote Originally Posted by Zebir95 View Post
    i'd rather have a pirate themed expansion than one based on elements. elements in wow are boring as fuck.
    Would be pretty easy to sneak Neptulon into such an expansion though. He's one of the more interesting Elemental guys anyway in my opinion, being more nuanced than just "Rawgh SMASH".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Did you read my fucking post?
    You just described draconic lore.

    The elements don't stand on their own this expansion, they are secondary to the major narrative of the dragon conflict and void/titan shenanigans.
    If that's Draconic lore to you, then we might as well call Ragnaros a dragon. DF's main conflict is effectively between the Elements and Order, with the dragons just being a proxy.

  13. #14313
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    If that's Draconic lore to you, then we might as well call Ragnaros a dragon. DF's main conflict is effectively between the Elements and Order, with the dragons just being a proxy.
    The conflict is solely driven by the incarnates own plans and desires to be independent from titan rule.
    The incarnates are not a proxy, they are the face.

    The elements, lord or any minor spirit, has yet to make any comment regarding them and the titans.
    The entire story portrays them as a mere tool to be used for incarnate, titan or Old Gods ends.
    Last edited by Raetary; 2023-09-03 at 12:56 PM.


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  14. #14314
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Did you read my fucking post?
    You just described draconic lore.

    The elements don't stand on their own this expansion, they are secondary to the major narrative of the dragon conflict and void/titan shenanigans.
    Uh, the Elemental part of DF is way more present than Void. In fact, that completely contradicts Teriz's theory; if BFA is too Pirate themed, then Dragonflight is too elemental themed for it to be the theme for 11.0
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Whelp, backing my theory some more, Gul'dan was on the Key art for Gamescon 2015 right before Legion was announced;
    You're pulling out the key art principal as if it proves your theory: The 2023 key art has Thrall, that just means Thrall will be involved. Yeah, an expansion where we fight "the harbinger" & its void forces are the most obvious antagonist choice right now, but we still have more major patches to go plus if the "formula" says the next expansion will feature the elemental lords, Blizzard might willfully contradict it simply because they've been found out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    They are not a proxy, they are the face.
    Proxy means "the face" of a perspective.

  15. #14315
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I would argue that there's a difference between being relevant and being a driver of a plot. Jaina and Sylvanas were those things in both BFA and Shadowlands respectively. Sylvanas being a prime example of this by being in the opening cinematic of Shadowlands and being the character that initiates the expansion by kidnapping leaders and opening the portal. In any case, I'm looking to Thrall either being Jaina's level in BFA or Sylvanas' level in Shadowlands. Given that this is going to be WoW's 20th anniversary expansion, the 100% prediction rate guy, and Chris Metzen's supposed involvement, I'm leaning towards Sylvanas in Shadowlands level Thrall involvement, where he's in the opening cinematic and maybe even on the cover.

    As for expansion theme, it's still Lightbound invasion. Interestingly, the orcs that fled Draenor in BFA claimed that Yrel's Lightbound army somehow destroyed Draenor's ecosystem, and led to a planetary collapse. That plot point could be utilized as a reason (excuse) for Thrall using Azeroth's elements to protect the world from whatever destructive magic Yrel and the Naaru are employing.


    Whelp, backing my theory some more, Gul'dan was on the Key art for Gamescon 2015 right before Legion was announced;
    Jaina is not the driver of the plot in BfA or honestly even that relevant outside of the intro and ending of Kul'tiras.

    Jaina has the importance of Koranos.

    Sylvanas/Saurfang/Anduin are.

    Also: Sylvanas was in the keyart because we quite literally knew that the next expansion would be about her. We knew the ending of the War Campaign before Shadowlands was revealed.

    Gul'dan was in the key art for Legion because we knew at that point that the next expansion we would deal with the repercusion of Gul'dan being transported... somewhere.

    The only one out of the left field, really, was Jaina.

    We know nothing even remotely of the direction of the next expansion, so of course Blizzard isn't gonna spoil anything with the keyart.
    Last edited by Makorus; 2023-09-03 at 01:28 PM.

  16. #14316
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Uh, the Elemental part of DF is way more present than Void. In fact, that completely contradicts Teriz's theory; if BFA is too Pirate themed, then Dragonflight is too elemental themed for it to be the theme for 11.0
    Not really. In DF the elements are simply tied to the primal dragons. There's a difference between that and Thrall utilizing the elemental lords in defense of Azeroth against an invasion from an alien force. In the end, DF is about dragons and their struggle between being primal or being order, and which path was the right path the go down for their race. That's a completely thematic than Yrel invading Azeroth and Thrall rising up and opposing them with the powers of the elements.

    You're pulling out the key art principal as if it proves your theory: The 2023 key art has Thrall, that just means Thrall will be involved. Yeah, an expansion where we fight "the harbinger" & its void forces are the most obvious antagonist choice right now, but we still have more major patches to go plus if the "formula" says the next expansion will feature the elemental lords, Blizzard might willfully contradict it simply because they've been found out.Proxy means "the face" of a perspective.
    I don't agree that the most obvious antagonist force right now is a "harbinger" that we don't even know the name of with us fighting an ambiguous void threat. I would argue that the most obvious antagonistic force is Yrel, because we actually know who she is and what level of threat she poses. In addition, a Yrel expansion would also introduce playable Arakkoa and Ogres, two highly demanded playable races. It fits the hints we received from BFA and Shadowlands, it fits Thrall being on the promo art, it fits Metzen's return, and it aligns with the 10th anniversary of WoD and the 20th anniversary of WoW.

  17. #14317
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Uh, the Elemental part of DF is way more present than Void.
    Of course the elements are present, that doesn't really mean much when they are not receiving any narrative focus.

    They exist solely as a plot device.
    A tool for the titans to do suppress and do experiments with, for incarnates to use for their own ends and for the void to influence and corrupt.

    We have yet to even see any minor elemental spirit proclaim any opinion on what is happening, let alone someone that's more prominent like an elemental lord.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Proxy means "the face" of a perspective.
    A proxy is a representative acting on another authority's behalf.
    'The face' is authority behind the proxy.

    The Incarnates are not a proxy, their are their own authority.


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  18. #14318
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    Jaina is not the driver of the plot in BfA or honestly even that relevant outside of the intro and ending of Kul'tiras.

    Jaina has the importance of Koranos.
    Are you kidding? The bringing in of Kul'tiras on the side of the alliance is a pretty huge plot point in BFA, as is her role in the Battle of Daza'lor and The Eternal Palace. In addition she was featured in the Warbringer cinematic which showcased the major characters of BFA of which she was one. How can you say she doesn't drive the plot when one of the continents in BFA is entirely based around her story?

    Also: Sylvanas was in the keyart because we quite literally knew that the next expansion would be about her. We knew the ending of the War Campaign before Shadowlands was revealed.

    Gul'dan was in the key art for Legion because we knew at that point that the next expansion we would deal with the repercusion of Gul'dan being transported... somewhere.
    Them being heavily foreshadowed as major players in future expansions doesn't change the fact that they were showcased in the key art BEFORE the expansions were revealed and were major aspects of Legion and Shadowlands plot and theme.

    We know nothing even remotely of the direction of the next expansion, so of course Blizzard isn't gonna spoil anything with the keyart.
    Uh based on the BlizzCon '23 promo art, we know that Thrall is a major part of the next expansion.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2023-09-03 at 01:55 PM.

  19. #14319
    11.0 could definitely have an elemental theme as they are not a huge focus of DF despite having a large presence. If we take out the Primalists in 10.2/10.3, 11.0 could have a plotline of Thrall and the Earthen Ring uncovering WHY the Primalists happened at all. Could also include Thrall and us fixing some Cata areas: if we remember what the devs said, they want us to experience big moments, not have them happen offscreen even if it makes sense for them to happen offscreen (Gilneas Reclamation).

    Maybe 11.0 is an EK/Kalimdor tour with elements and assorted antagonists (Scarlets, Nathrezim, Botani, Primalist remnants, "Heretics", Nightsquall Pirates) just like Cata 2? I feel like there are too many plot elements being built up for just one new island continent.

  20. #14320
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    11.0 could definitely have an elemental theme as they are not a huge focus of DF despite having a large presence. If we take out the Primalists in 10.2/10.3, 11.0 could have a plotline of Thrall and the Earthen Ring uncovering WHY the Primalists happened at all. Could also include Thrall and us fixing some Cata areas: if we remember what the devs said, they want us to experience big moments, not have them happen offscreen even if it makes sense for them to happen offscreen (Gilneas Reclamation).

    Maybe 11.0 is an EK/Kalimdor tour with elements and assorted antagonists (Scarlets, Nathrezim, Botani, Primalist remnants, "Heretics", Nightsquall Pirates) just like Cata 2? I feel like there are too many plot elements being built up for just one new island continent.
    World Revamp still feels very much on the cards I would say. It would be a big moment to announce truly worthy of the anniversary, and it would let the developers toy with all kinds of themes that wouldnt really fit into a regular expansion. Not to mention it would let us have some forward momentum on big faction related plotlines like the Sunwell, the Draenei/Man'ari, Dark Iron Dwarves, and the future of the Forsaken.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

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