The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Makabreska]

They are powerful proto-dragons who opposed the "Gift" of the Titans and want to get revenge on the Dragonflights in one form or another. That's literally their MO since day 1.

Yes, and we still don't know HOW are they gonna do it. Also, Iridikron seems to be playing his own game.

[Nymrohd]

That's not abnormal. Especially since most of the time X.2 is a side step.

We typically don't know the final villains' actual strategy until the very end.

Most of the time, we are the ones who have the initiative. Let's see
TBC did not have a clear story. We never even found what Illidan was planning until the Legion book on him. KJ was added in the end with little build up
In Wrath, we had the initiative. Arthas attacked in Org/SW, we pushed him back and then we attacked straight at Northrend and were always on the offensive.
In Cata we knew what the plan was from day one. Cho'gall kept telling us about the Hour of Twilight more than a year before we stepped into Dragon Soul.
MoP absolutely kept giving us full exposition in every step. We see Garrosh seeking an advantage and trying to use Y'shaarj as soon as X.1. His plans are explained in every step of the expansion
WoD is weird in that it has two separate stories. On one hand we have the Iron Horde whose plans are clear to us from the start (build war machines, march through portal) and then we have Gul'dan who we follow throughout the expansion. His plans are unclear but they are unclear because even he has know idea what he is doing (we find that out in the short story when KJ is guiding him to the Tomb with him being blind to the plan). So it kind of works (and the end of WoD is a direct lead in to Legion in that way).
Legion pretty much intimates that we will take the fight to Argus during the DH starting story with the Sargerei Keystone. Legion's plan is never unclear. We do have a surprise villain and Sargeras' plan is enlarged at the end but it doesn't actually change, we just get continuous exposition.

Then BfA drops the ball. We don't have any idea what Sylvanas is after at any point during the xpac. With N'zoth we very much know what he is after though; he and Azshara have exposition during the middle patch; again the expansion has two stories at once which complicates things. Then we go to nipple dude who apparently knows how to take over the world using a machine hidden in a place he cannot know about because him not knowing what is there and trying to get there is the very plot of the expansion. . .

[Palapop]

Na, the cinematic was super cute. Anyone else shipping Vyranoth and Alex right now?^^

This type of comments just made me puke.
Thank you. Been feeling crap whole day.

Burn all "cute" things and "ships" in WOW lore pls.

The "cutest" thing allowed should be goblins in Retchet.

[Jaggler]

After watching the cinematic of Vyranoth betrayal to the Incarnates and joining the Aspects, I really really hope that they are messing with us, that they knew that we were observing them all the time, and planned accordingly, just to Vyranoth to do some real damage when she shows her true colors. If this does not happen, the narrative that has lead to this point is so pathethic, the justification of Vyranoth actions so swift and weak, that it would make me lose a lot of the good faith that DF was building.

How are Vyranoth's justifications weak when she is literally abiding by her own ideals. Staying with Fyrakk would be the actual bad writing in this case.

[Ersula]

None of the events that Iridikron spoke of is taking place in this expansion. Well the verdict is still out on the Harbingers' arrival and what not but other than that none of the events are transpiring in this expansion.

See, you're making a classic wow expansion mistake: The Last Major Patch of the last 3 expansions have all been things that should have been the premise of their own expansion, but then were shoved into the final patch: So The Harbinger attacking Azeroth is definitely the plot of the last raid tier. It's the consequences of that which will be the premise of 11.0

[Cheezits]

Vyranoth feels like an anti-Sylvanas the dev team wanted to do, to show that they can write a female antagonist who isn't stupid/corrupted/manipulated by her peers and can turn to good without magic.

[Nymrohd]

Yes, and we still don't know HOW are they gonna do it. Also, Iridikron seems to be playing his own game.

Or why they opposed that gift. it's clear there was some crucial event that turned Vyranoth against Alex but we probably will only find out what exactly happened in the Tyr storyline.

[Dracullus]

having only 2 major patches means dragonflight was another low effort expansion. don't care if we got 10 patches with 10 minutes of questlines in each of them. the content of this expansion has been underwhelming. losing a main patch would be the nail in the coffin for me.

Yep, 10.0.7 with zone and more story than 7.2, definitely 10 minutes story patch xD.

If DF ends on 10.2.5, it has 1 RAID less than MoP/Legion/BfA. And that is because in most of 4 raid expacs X.1 patch had size similar to 10.1.5+1.7. Instead you get more world content and actual dungeon rotation if you into dungeons. So less if you like raids, more if you like everything else.

[Nymrohd]

Vyranoth feels like an anti-Sylvanas the dev team wanted to do, to show that they can write a female antagonist who isn't stupid/corrupted/manipulated by her peers and can turn to good without magic.

The thing is, what is even good here? We don't exactly know what the Incarnates did during the initial war. Did they commit atrocities that caused the Aspects to turn on them or was it just a power struggle between ideologies

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

See, you're making a classic wow expansion mistake: The Last Major Patch of the last 3 expansions have all been things that should have been the premise of their own expansion, but then were shoved into the final patch: So The Harbinger attacking Azeroth is definitely the plot of the last raid tier. It's the consequences of that which will be the premise of 11.0

I sure love truncated A-plotline stories with clear pivots to the next product to consume for the sake of short term profit.

[Jaggler]

Or why they opposed that gift. it's clear there was some crucial event that turned Vyranoth against Alex but we probably will only find out what exactly happened in the Tyr storyline.

The crucial event is Alexstrasza siding with the Titans. They were literally turining their children into something else and we know that the Titans used their "gift" to make the Dragons more aligned with their ideals.

The thing is, what is even good here? We don't exactly know what the Incarnates did during the initial war. Did they commit atrocities that caused the Aspects to turn on them or was it just a power struggle between ideologies

They were imprisoned because they sided against the Dragonflights.

[Sondrelk]

WoD is weird in that it has two separate stories. On one hand we have the Iron Horde whose plans are clear to us from the start (build war machines, march through portal) and then we have Gul'dan who we follow throughout the expansion. His plans are unclear but they are unclear because even he has know idea what he is doing (we find that out in the short story when KJ is guiding him to the Tomb with him being blind to the plan). So it kind of works (and the end of WoD is a direct lead in to Legion in that way).

WoD is unique in that it actually pulls off the shifting in main antagonist. Though sadly through a now unavailable legendary quest.
It's all about the Iron Horde, but we do know that Gul'dan is skulking about, evidently undefeated. The 6.1 questline then shows us Gul'dan very specifically defeating Grom and converting his troops to his own, effectively usurping the role Grom had in the narrative.

[Santandame]

Why would you not just make the final megadungeon a raid though? You wouldnt really have time to make it into a M+ dungeon like you could with the earlier one, which seems to be the main point to catering to the M+ crowd. And you would be alienating the Mythic raid WF players who bring in free advertisement with their livestreams.

It could launch in a state in that it’s ready to be used in mythic+. A couple of weeks of it as normal mythic and then it can be ran as keys.

You said yourself that mythic+ is the lifeblood of the game. Raiding isn’t the be all end all anymore. Just because expansions have traditionally ended with a raid doesn’t mean they always should. Times change and all that. Blizzard might be looking at which way the winds blowing.

I don’t think their mindset should be whether they’ll alienate the mythic raiders either. We’ve had expansions end with a .2 patch and it hadn’t alienated those WF raiders yet. Just end the expansion with .2.5, have a new mega dungeon, a new season, fated raids and story quests, maybe a solo scenario like mage tower. I don’t see the issue with that. It’ll keep us tided over until the next expansion.

Raiding doesn’t need to be the be all end all. Mythic+ is more popular for a reason.

[Nymrohd]

actual dungeon rotation if you into dungeons.

That's not more content though.
What is more content is the story in the smaller patches and the events.
I've shared my opinion on the events. If they had a better reward structure maybe they'd be more appealing to me but as they are now, I see them as low effort fast food content.
On the story, there absolutely is more story delivery in DF. I don't exactly think the story being delivered has meat but what is told is told in an entertaining way, with decent characters and voice acting and a decent mix of heartwarming, camp and epic moments. But the actual story I find mediocre at best. All show but no substance.

[Darkarath]

How are Vyranoth's justifications weak when she is literally abiding by her own ideals. Staying with Fyrakk would be the actual bad writing in this case.

Because if she does not like what Fyrakk is doing, you just not change sides in a second. You have the possibility of, surprise surprise, keep fighting for your ideals without running to join the enemy. Do your own thing, not go and cry to Alextrasza, the one responsible for messing up your children, responsible for 20.000 years of your imprisonment, and the one responsible for killing your beloved sister like a month ago.

Pathetic.

[Ersula]

Vyranoth feels like an anti-Sylvanas the dev team wanted to do, to show that they can write a female antagonist who isn't stupid/corrupted/manipulated by her peers and can turn to good without magic.

Alexstrasa represents everything she was against and it takes very little convincing for her to join her. So its the same only Alex is the Jailer in this situation.

Though I don't hate this development simply because Helping Alexstrasa doesn't break Vyranoth's moral code once she realize the Titans are not actually coming back ever.

[Nymrohd]

The crucial event is Alexstrasza siding with the Titans. They were literally turining their children into something else and we know that the Titans used their "gift" to make the Dragons more aligned with their ideals.



They were imprisoned because they sided against the Dragonflights.

Tautologies are not explanations. You are saying "They were punished because they broke the law" without saying what law was broken or how it was broken.
hey, it might be good enough for you. Cool and enjoy it. I find it lacking substance.

[Jaggler]

Because if she does not like what Fyrakk is doing, you just not change sides in a second. You have the possibility of, surprise surprise, keep fighting for your ideals without running to join the enemy. Do your own thing, not go and cry to Alextrasza, the one responsible for messing up your children, responsible for 20.000 years of your imprisonment, and the one responsible for killing your beloved sister like a month ago.

Pathetic.

What is she gonna do? Fight alone against Fyrakk who has been empowered by the Shadowflame? She would either die against Fyrakk or the Dragonflights.

Tautologies are not explanations. You are saying "They were punished because they broke the law" without saying what law was broken or how it was broken.
hey, it might be good enough for you. Cool and enjoy it. I find it lacking substance.

I don't know what's so hard to understand in this case. They were imprisoned by Titan forces because they fought against titan forces.

[Nymrohd]

WoD is unique in that it actually pulls off the shifting in main antagonist. Though sadly through a now unavailable legendary quest.
It's all about the Iron Horde, but we do know that Gul'dan is skulking about, evidently undefeated. The 6.1 questline then shows us Gul'dan very specifically defeating Grom and converting his troops to his own, effectively usurping the role Grom had in the narrative.

Oh I think WoD actually did what it set out to do well. It just lacked content and what it did set out to do was a mess (but one that I can easily ignore). Honestly the only part of WoD's story that I did not find entertaining was the very end.

[Sondrelk]

They were imprisoned because they sided against the Dragonflights.

This is specifically the part we don't know much about though. What exactly sparked the war, and what made it so aggressive that the Titan Keepers got involved.
We know that Fyrakk and Vyranoth at least were in it for ideals, and that Iridikron was the Warmonger, so unless the story is suggesting that Iridikron manipulated them into going to war there is a vital bit of story missing.

The likely story based on the pieces we have so far is that the Titan Keepers took eggs from Fyrakk and Vyranoth, and that when they retaliated Tyr threw the aspects at them to cover his own actions. But we don't know for sure. Could be the Incarnates just decided to attack one day, could be Tyr decided to imprison them. Could be that the Aspects asked them to be aspects and they refused leading to escalating tensions. We just don't know.