The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Sondrelk]

I mean, Uldaz. Also we already killed Tyr once this expac.

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Btw, what happened to the quest about Eredar skins for Draenei?

Uldaz is definitely something we could require Tyr for. Maybe only he knows that it's where Iridikron would go to summon the Titans back to Azeroth or whatever.
Still, until that point there is still nothing that Tyr being revived solves that warrants all the buildup. And while it might be hindsight, there wouldn't then be a reason why we couldn't simply revive Tyr at the beginning and just have him be a regular quest giver in Valdrakken.



The Eredar quest unlocks a few week in I believe.

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Now that Vyranoth is with her, we might see a different reaction when Tyr gets revived. That cinematic could be interesting if Vyranoth is pressent.
How will Tyr react and what would hes plan be?

This is also a good point towards antagonistic Tyr.
Without an actual purpose to Tyr being revived we gravitate towards him simply commenting on the changes since he died. And Vyranoth being angry at him, coupled with him seemingly not caring about his experiments leads us to a collision course for the two characters. And since Vyranoth furthermore is being built up as an ally it would then logically follow that Tyr is antagonistic.

[micwini]

Uldaz is definitely something we could require Tyr for. Maybe only he knows that it's where Iridikron would go to summon the Titans back to Azeroth or whatever.
Still, until that point there is still nothing that Tyr being revived solves that warrants all the buildup. And while it might be hindsight, there wouldn't then be a reason why we couldn't simply revive Tyr at the beginning and just have him be a regular quest giver in Valdrakken.

Could easiliy be a 10.3 plot, if it exists.

[Valysar]

6 Aspects, 6 Forces...

I remember the chest in Zaralek, when you combine all the aspects colors, you have a "white" beam on you. What's white ? Snow. Snow = Vyranoth ?

[Hitei]

What would she even be the aspect of?

[Sondrelk]

What would she even be the aspect of?

Elements, presumably. Proto-dragons in general maybe?

[Hitei]

Elements, presumably. Proto-dragons in general maybe?

But like... The black flight is already dedicated to one of the four elements, fire is pretty integral to their (and the reds') identity and the blues are already heavily frost, the point of even breathing it.

Feels like there's not much of the elements left for her to be that.

[Valysar]

Maybe she will just be a consort, or something like that, like Korialstrasz

[Raetary]

We'll have to wait and see.
Unless they want 2 blue flights next to each other, she'd have to receive a drastic change in appearance anyway.

Maybe she will just be a consort, or something like that, like Korialstrasz

Alexstrazsas new girlfriend,

[Scyth]

What would she even be the aspect of?

I doubt she'd be an aspect but I'm guessing she will represent dragons that haven't really been represented until now, like proto dragons etc.

[RahEndymion]

Sure, Legion added BT timewalking, but DF has more timewalking availability than ever before AND has brought forward 14(?) dungeons into current M+ rotation.

I find it a little odd to claim this is good content and then go onto complain about copy & paste content in Legion? Reusing a bunch of dungeons, many of which are no more than 4 years old, is hardly diverse content.

The "best" iteration of Legion Assaults were still pretty minor content compared to Fyrakk + Elemental Storms + Surges + Rifts + events like Hunts, Dragonbane, and Feasts. The idea that Legion is winning on quality and quantity is pretty silly.

Here you're including a bunch of 10.0 stuff and content from various patches against one piece of patch content. IF we're including expansion launch features, you have Suramar, world quests, artifact weapons, order halls, mage tower, legion assaults across broken iusles, broken shores and argus plus the introduction of major time walking throughout. There's a hell of a lot more variety and depth than any of the rare farms or various trivial and largely pointless open world attempts at content. Sure, hunts & feats were fun on launch but recolouring them and calling it a Fyrakk Assault isn't the diverse quality content you're making it out to be. LEt alone m+ was introduced for the first time in 7.0..

You point out that the quest chains in DF are very short, but actually the entire pre-insurrection Suramar campaign is only ~10 quests longer than the Sarkareth (Forbidden Reach + Zaralek) campaign, which is pretty lackluster given that Suramar was a primary zone whose whole thing was being a story rich campaign area. And consider that a zone like Stormheim has about 85 quests in its main storyline (and following faction bit) and like 15 side quests. A zone like Waking shores has about 80 quests in its main storyline and 45+ side quests.

I have repeatedly said 10.0 was a good experience. I have no issue with quest lengths in release zones. My point was that a barren and feature deplete 10.1 and 10.2 is not made better by .5/.7 patches with incredibly short quest lines and a currency grind / vendor.

I don't know how anyone can claim that the quality of additions in Legion was better in comparison. It's "new zone" was a repurposed, single environment scenario zone. People like to laude the class hall campaigns and I end up wondering if they only did 1 or 2, because a bunch of them copy paste each other from the very start (artifact acquisition) to through to the end, and most of them were basically just "look for this relatively unimportant nameless boss NPC". Most of them dispensed any actual sense of class connection really early on and were just sort of generic quest chains. Some were stand out, but most were really mid.

Compared to pretty much every quest other than the blue flight quest and Wrathion / Sebellian 10.0 quests, Legion's order hall quest lines were far more engaging and well put together. The entirety of the expansion had a far superior tone, atmosphere and general playability. The quests were engaging and their conceptual basis was strong. There were no 'WATCH YER NOSE FWIEND' quests..

Until you look at all the DF zone events, and look at them re-adding Naxx gear in craftable form with its own little acquisition puzzle, and trading post for all sorts of new vanity items and unavailable reskins alongside an absolute ton of just randomly thrown in transmog unlocks out in the world, and re-adding all sorts of items lost in the Cata updates, and adding dragonriding races to old areas, and doing several concurrent story-impactful campaigns, and multiple heritage armor questlines, and all sorts of new racial customization options just willynilly, and class customizations, and doing major updates to holidays, and multiple major class reworks mid-expansion, and random small story quest lines for the Blues, or Baine, and holiday events like Secrets of Azeroth, and QoL systems like the ping or the ability to re-gear old low level alts that you haven't played for a while.

Trading post is not content. Purchasing a transmog with a currency you've earned by just playing other parts of the game isn't content. It's neat and I'd rather have it than not but content that does not make. Customization options are also not content. Yes, it's nice to be able to go and get a transmog that was previously not achievable from 15 years ago but to the vast majority of players that have left, this isn't content. You're looking at this through the lens of a player that is currently still subbed and happy.. It's literally survivorship bias. 'Well the bubonic plague is obviously not bad, I'm still here!' - Says Hitei, while their entire village dies around them.

I'm all for people not liking DF if they just don't like DF or its themes or whatever. But you are kidding yourself if your argument is "it's lacking content" or "it's just giving the illusion of content but it's all empty". They are stuffing the absolute shit out of patches, they just aren't as focused on instances. A lot of DF things are "small", Fyrakk Assaults are small, the ping addition is small, more dragon riding races is small--until you step back and look at just how many small things are being put in and realize that DF is probably the single most content heavy expansion the game has ever had by a wide margin.

Firstly, again, I enjoyed 10.0. It was fun, there was a lot to do and despite some misgivings with thematic direction there was a lot of potential. But, approaching 10.2, it is lacking worthwhile content. There is a reason that over half of the active player base has abandoned the game between 10.0 and 10.1 and that certainly isn't because they were overwhelmed by the sheer quality and diversity of content lol.

Yes, there are a lot of changes. They are doing things and they are doing them often. But, 10.1 launch was.. poor? The content was bad. Aberrus, while fun, was over and done with almost as soon as it landed and there really was nothing else. Zaralekk is an awful zone and offers very few reasons to log in. Virtually all of the open world things you have mentioned are in one way or another a variation of a legion assault, just worse.

How you can say DF is content heavy when even BFA gave more is beyond me. Being better than Shadowlands is about all that DF has going for it and at this rate, the only title it looks like it will actually take is the lowest ever recorded MAUs in the franchise history.

Perhaps, if there genuinely s a 10.3, that will change. Perhaps there will be more content or something a little more significant than the uninspired looking 10.2.

Until then, DF does not really compare to Legion favourably whatsoever.

[Xilurm]

https://twitter.com/keyboardturn/sta...12183075164541

These are some really good looking tier sets. (more in the link above)


This one is supposed to be a bugged version without the crop top. That means the crop top is a separate part of it? Like the poster says though, I hope they make both available, with some fixes of course, like the creases under the breasts compared to the first "non-bugged" one.

[huth]

They don't seem to know about Tyrs experiments on dragons in general. How Galakrond was seemingly created by one of Tyrs experiments, how he kept Proto-dragons imprisoned in order to run experiments on magic infusion.

Eh, Galakrond was explicitly a mistake and failure that wasn't supposed to go like that. That just means he's fallible, which isn't really news.

Not throwing experimental specimens into the general population is not exactly "shady", either.

I'm just not seeing it.

[Lady Atia]

https://twitter.com/keyboardturn/sta...12183075164541

These are some really good looking tier sets. (more in the link above)


This one is supposed to be a bugged version without the crop top. That means the crop top is a separate part of it? Like the poster says though, I hope they make both available, with some fixes of course, like the creases under the breasts compared to the first "non-bugged" one.

Interesting enough, there is a 7th recolour for this set. Maybe a reward for the fated style raid content down the line? Or they use the 7th as elite colour for season 4?

[Villager720]

Eh.

Sure, Legion added BT timewalking, but DF has more timewalking availability than ever before AND has brought forward 14(?) dungeons into current M+ rotation.
Sure, Legion had Deaths of Chromie, but I think it's important to actually contextualize that. It's a fun scenario but it's really not any more content than Zskera was. It was a fun little scenario that was relatively quick and easy to get through.

The "best" iteration of Legion Assaults were still pretty minor content compared to Fyrakk + Elemental Storms + Surges + Rifts + events like Hunts, Dragonbane, and Feasts. The idea that Legion is winning on quality and quantity is pretty silly.

You point out that the quest chains in DF are very short, but actually the entire pre-insurrection Suramar campaign is only ~10 quests longer than the Sarkareth (Forbidden Reach + Zaralek) campaign, which is pretty lackluster given that Suramar was a primary zone whose whole thing was being a story rich campaign area. And consider that a zone like Stormheim has about 85 quests in its main storyline (and following faction bit) and like 15 side quests. A zone like Waking shores has about 80 quests in its main storyline and 45+ side quests.

I don't know how anyone can claim that the quality of additions in Legion was better in comparison. It's "new zone" was a repurposed, single environment scenario zone. People like to laude the class hall campaigns and I end up wondering if they only did 1 or 2, because a bunch of them copy paste each other from the very start (artifact acquisition) to through to the end, and most of them were basically just "look for this relatively unimportant nameless boss NPC". Most of them dispensed any actual sense of class connection really early on and were just sort of generic quest chains. Some were stand out, but most were really mid.

Even something like Mage Tower was copy pasted across specs to share resources, with fights that were really badly balanced between the different specs doing the encounter because they didn't bother to alter the mechanics to a significant degree to match spec capability.

I really enjoyed Legion's content, but it was very much the expansion that gave the illusion of more content while cutting a lot of corners and repurposing a lot of things to stretch content: a dungeon that was updated from an existing single-room dungeon, a dungeon that just reused the DH starting area, a patch zone that was a relatively featureless island from the expansion intro, an existing city that was copy pasted to a new location with a few updates, an extremely limited pool of weapon appearances and types with lots of iteration of the same model with modifications.

Meanwhile DF has just been throwing in more and more content, both in the traditional lanes like the above assaults and m+, and in the side activities and availabilities.

It's reallllly easy to just count raid bosses or number of dungeons and go "OMG LEGION WAS SO MUCH MORE!!!"

Until you look at all the DF zone events, and look at them re-adding Naxx gear in craftable form with its own little acquisition puzzle, and trading post for all sorts of new vanity items and unavailable reskins alongside an absolute ton of just randomly thrown in transmog unlocks out in the world, and re-adding all sorts of items lost in the Cata updates, and adding dragonriding races to old areas, and doing several concurrent story-impactful campaigns, and multiple heritage armor questlines, and all sorts of new racial customization options just willynilly, and class customizations, and doing major updates to holidays, and multiple major class reworks mid-expansion, and random small story quest lines for the Blues, or Baine, and holiday events like Secrets of Azeroth, and QoL systems like the ping or the ability to re-gear old low level alts that you haven't played for a while.

I'm all for people not liking DF if they just don't like DF or its themes or whatever. But you are kidding yourself if your argument is "it's lacking content" or "it's just giving the illusion of content but it's all empty". They are stuffing the absolute shit out of patches, they just aren't as focused on instances. A lot of DF things are "small", Fyrakk Assaults are small, the ping addition is small, more dragon riding races is small--until you step back and look at just how many small things are being put in and realize that DF is probably the single most content heavy expansion the game has ever had by a wide margin.

Preach, brother.
Dragonflight 100% doesn’t have the thematic drive of Legion, but compared to any expansion ever, it has the most content, quality and quantity, ever. Full stop.
Anyone trying to argue otherwise is biased, again, imo, probably due to a lack of urgency to play content due to theme.

[Reive]

Interesting enough, there is a 7th recolour for this set. Maybe a reward for the fated style raid content down the line? Or they use the 7th as elite colour for season 4?

the set of the last season of an expansion is usually a recolor of the one from the previous season, so what you say it's not impossible.

[Ersula]

What would she even be the aspect of?

How funny would it be if they make her the aspect of life since they already have 2 of those.

Though considering what Tyr intended for the Silver Aspect, she could be the aspect of Peace, or honestly she shouldn't have a theme at all. Who cares what the Titans would assign her responsibility, certainly not her.

[Hitei]

I find it a little odd to claim this is good content and then go onto complain about copy & paste content in Legion? Reusing a bunch of dungeons, many of which are no more than 4 years old, is hardly diverse content.

And yet you keep talking up timewalking.

Here you're including a bunch of 10.0 stuff and content from various patches against one piece of patch content. IF we're including expansion launch features, you have Suramar, world quests, artifact weapons, order halls, mage tower, legion assaults across broken iusles, broken shores and argus plus the introduction of major time walking throughout. There's a hell of a lot more variety and depth than any of the rare farms or various trivial and largely pointless open world attempts at content. Sure, hunts & feats were fun on launch but recolouring them and calling it a Fyrakk Assault isn't the diverse quality content you're making it out to be. LEt alone m+ was introduced for the first time in 7.0..

Yes, but do you notice now how your list of the entirety of Legion content isn't even as much as what I listed for the 10-10.1.x series of DF?

Legion has Suramar, but lauch DF has more story and zone quests than Legion base zones, Suramar AND Order halls put together. Legion has WQ, but DF has them too. Legion has Artifact Weapons, but DF introduced longer term, significantly more meaningful progression to professions and makes artifact appearances look like a joke. As already discussed, Assaults "across broken isles" is nothing compared to the DF world content, Broken shore and Argus together are probably comparable in quest and activity content to Reach and Zaralek, so the Dream zone is just widening the gap, every "major time walking" introduction in Legion is in DF and more.

There's objectively not more variety and depth here, because nearly every feature and piece of content in Legion is also in DF plus more.

I have repeatedly said 10.0 was a good experience. I have no issue with quest lengths in release zones. My point was that a barren and feature deplete 10.1 and 10.2 is not made better by .5/.7 patches with incredibly short quest lines and a currency grind / vendor.

Compared to pretty much every quest other than the blue flight quest and Wrathion / Sebellian 10.0 quests, Legion's order hall quest lines were far more engaging and well put together.

If you're complaining about DF quest lines being "incredibly short" and "currency grind" then I don't know why you're trying to frame Artifact Weapons as a notable content feature, or pretend that the tiny addition of insurrection, or later stage class hall campaigns were not exactly that. Legion's order hall quest lines were a joke they couldn't even bother to develop different ones for each class, and as already explained, most of them are totally pointless "fight the legion under X leader" questlines that go nowhere.

The entirety of the expansion had a far superior tone, atmosphere and general playability. The quests were engaging and their conceptual basis was strong. There were no 'WATCH YER NOSE FWIEND' quests..

Dipping into baseless subjectivity is not helping you're argument that there's more content.

Trading post is not content. Purchasing a transmog with a currency you've earned by just playing other parts of the game isn't content. It's neat and I'd rather have it than not but content that does not make. Customization options are also not content. Yes, it's nice to be able to go and get a transmog that was previously not achievable from 15 years ago but to the vast majority of players that have left, this isn't content.

Lol, but unlocking a static power tree with currency you've earned by just playing other parts of the game somehow counts as content when you're floundering for things Legion had? You're disparaging the Naxx recipe unlock process as "not content", and disparaging "rare farms or various trivial and largely pointless open world content" as not worth counting, but unironically pretending that Legion Assaults are a major content feature?

You're looking at this through the lens of a player that is currently still subbed and happy.. It's literally survivorship bias. 'Well the bubonic plague is obviously not bad, I'm still here!' - Says Hitei, while their entire village dies around them.

Firstly, again, I enjoyed 10.0. It was fun, there was a lot to do and despite some misgivings with thematic direction there was a lot of potential. But, approaching 10.2, it is lacking worthwhile content. There is a reason that over half of the active player base has abandoned the game between 10.0 and 10.1 and that certainly isn't because they were overwhelmed by the sheer quality and diversity of content lol.

Yes, there are a lot of changes. They are doing things and they are doing them often. But, 10.1 launch was.. poor? The content was bad. Aberrus, while fun, was over and done with almost as soon as it landed and there really was nothing else. Zaralekk is an awful zone and offers very few reasons to log in. Virtually all of the open world things you have mentioned are in one way or another a variation of a legion assault, just worse.

How you can say DF is content heavy when even BFA gave more is beyond me. Being better than Shadowlands is about all that DF has going for it and at this rate, the only title it looks like it will actually take is the lowest ever recorded MAUs in the franchise history.

I'm looking at this through the lens of actually tallying up what content was added. The person with a bias here is you my "N-no, Zaralek and all the stuff in it doesn't count because I did Aberrus and then left!!!" friend.

I can say DF is content heavy by objectively looking at what was added in each expansion, instead of having to back-pedal to arguments like "but I don't like that content!" or "But players leave in the middle of expansions like they have since WoD so it somehow has less content!". It should be a bright red flag for you that you're having to try and discount or outright ignore things added while desperately padding Legion content with lines like "every zone" for Legion Assaults and painful attempts to shift this discussion to an argument of subjective personal enjoyment.

Until then, DF does not really compare to Legion favourably whatsoever

DF can end after 10.2 and it's still going to objectively have had more content in everything but raid/dungeon amount. But I guess continue to placate yourself with excuses and ignore the factual information by goal post shifting to "but DF is worse because I like Legion's atmosphere and tone better!" and appealing to guesses at player count.

[Zaganite]

What would she even be the aspect of?

She can be the Aspect of Friendship! Jokes aside, I said it ages ago but before DF there was a like dropped about "other voices at the table". We know we're recruiting the netherdrakes and Storm drake's so she can be the proto-drake representative. We're starting to see these other voices included now.

Actually, did it ever say how the Incarnates got their empowerment? Or is that what will probably be saved for the book

[Hitei]

She can be the Aspect of Friendship! Jokes aside, I said it ages ago but before DF there was a like dropped about "other voices at the table". We know we're recruiting the netherdrakes and Storm drake's so she can be the proto-drake representative. We're starting to see these other voices included now.

Actually, did it ever say how the Incarnates got their empowerment? Or is that what will probably be saved for the book

One would assume just from the innate elemental powers of the world rather than it being some specific thing like the Aspects went through.

[Skildar]

I'm disappointed about the story they've decided to tell with Vyranoth. They have a couple of good ideas and good visual deisgns for the antagonists then just give up on telling something interesting with the characters...

I know that WoW main story and narration has never been mind blowing but this is a bit too much for my taste. It's on par with Warlords of Draenor, wvere I will get sucked into "they could have done the story this way with these characters..." for a few years.