The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Yarathir]

Y'all think there is a domain of Life or not?

As in-- like Zereth Mortis?

Sadly, yes. Fairly sure I recall 9.2 confirming that there's a Zereth Lumen, Ordos, Vitae, Umbra and Tumult.

[Shadowferal]

Probably but I think they're likely to try and avoid the assumption that every cosmic force has a specific 'domain' in the vein of shadowlands. In the 2020 cosmology chart it seemed to suggest Shadowlands was more akin to the Dream than it was to something like the Twisting Nether or the Void.

That chart is useless without definition.

[Nebron]

And, you know, that there's a 95% chance that they announce a new expansion in eight weeks.

I would go with 100%. What does it change? What makes it so difficult in terms of timeframe, to put 10.3, with a regular or even smaller sized raid in May 2024, so it’s consistent with Dragonflight patch cadance?

DF launched in November.
Aberrus launched in May.
Amirdrassil launches most probably in November.
10.3 in May 2024?
11.0 launches in November 2024.

I’m not arguing that they will release the raid in 10.3 and I’m super confident about it.
It’s just now, that 10.2 has been previewed and AOTC mount popped up, suddenly everyone is confident beyond any doubt that 10.2 is a final raid tier.

[Sondrelk]

You're joking, right? And the utter lack of any coherent follow through regarding the Holocaust of Nightelves is enormously telling.

Do you have any examples of a major storyline of an expansion being left hanging? Stuff like Teldrassil is certainly a major factor in the main plot of BfA, but it wasn't so major that it couldn't be tied to Sylvanas and follow her into the next expansion.
I can't really imagine doing the same to stuff like the Dragon Aspects and Titan keepers interference following Iridikron into future expansions.

[Shadowferal]

Do you have any examples of a major storyline of an expansion being left hanging? Stuff like Teldrassil is certainly a major factor in the main plot of BfA, but it wasn't so major that it couldn't be tied to Sylvanas and follow her into the next expansion.

The hell it wasn't major!
The logical follow up should have left the forsaken alone against pissed off nations. Blizz could have done so much with this, it could've been a major expansion.
But...it'd take decent writing. And add all the other points I quoted from Nymrohd...it's clear that shit-tier writing is all Blizz is about.

[Xilurm]

This is really neat, but I think this takes time, otherwise, we would be getting HD upscaled buckets of old stuff every patch, and Blizzard would be bragging about it.

But, of course, they also could be saving it to sell as an expansion feature.

In less than two months we'll know... I hope.

With how some people view AI when it comes to anything that has to do with art, I don't blame them. Some people see the word AI nowdays and start seething and frothing at he mouth.

[micwini]

Imagine the growth in GB's if all old items were upscaled to HD.

[Dracullus]

I’m not arguing that they will release the raid in 10.3 and I’m super confident about it.
It’s just now, that 10.2 has been previewed and AOTC mount popped up, suddenly everyone is confident beyond any doubt that 10.2 is a final raid tier.

No one is "confident beyond any doubt". But this and non-answer in MrGM interview are clear signs, enough to expect tree as final raid.

Will we have Season 4? Beyond any doubt. Will it be big enough update to call this patch 10.3? Unknown, depend how many new world content it could bring.

I'm waiting if Tyr's storyline will continue in 10.2. If not, I expect S4 to be all about it with Nighthold reused as raid or revamped dungeon.

[Sondrelk]

The hell it wasn't major!
The logical follow up should have left the forsaken alone against pissed off nations. Blizz could have done so much with this, it could've been a major expansion.
But...it'd take decent writing. And add all the other points I quoted from Nymrohd...it's clear that shit-tier writing is all Blizz is about.

I'm not saying it isn't a major storyline in BfA, just that it was more tied to Sylvanas, and therefore followed her into the Shadowlands.
Regardless, the main plotline in BfA was concluded, it was just a shit ending without an actual raid, which was my point. The main storyline of BfA ended in 8.2.5, and then we had an unrelated raid for the N'zoth plotline for 8.3.

- - - Updated - - -

No one is "confident beyond any doubt". But this and non-answer in MrGM interview are clear signs, enough to expect tree as final raid.

Will we have Season 4? Beyond any doubt. Will it be big enough update to call this patch 10.3? Unknown, depend how many new world content it could bring.

I'm waiting if Tyr's storyline will continue in 10.2. If not, I expect S4 to be all about it with Nighthold reused as raid or revamped dungeon.

Blizzard basically never confirms plot points that isn't already established though.

[Fahrad Wagner]

That's almost certainly a store/cross promo set. Maybe Trading Post.

Very likely but the question is... where does that Tanaris Wastelands fantasy come from? It's never been associated to that kind of aesthetics or story, so if it is now it means things might have changed since we last visited Tanaris

[ChronoSul]

Very likely but the question is... where does that Tanaris Wastelands fantasy come from? It's never been associated to that kind of aesthetics or story, so if it is now it means things might have changed since we last visited Tanaris

The Warlands AU fits perfectly

[Fahrad Wagner]

The Warlands AU fits perfectly

Good call! I had not thought of that

[Santandame]

I don’t know why people particularly want a 10.3. It’s not necessary. The main storyline of the expansion is the Primal Incarnates, of which seems to be due resolution in 10.2. The Tyr storyline is an important one but it’s not the primary narrative. It could easily be resolved in a 10.2.5 story patch or be used as a plot hook for a future expansion.

Just give us fated raids, a new or revamped dungeon and some story and world content in 10.2.5 with the next expansion looming and everyone’s happy. The main story of DF is resolved, with the smaller ones being wrapped up in a story patch or used for future expansions. There’s no need to drag DF out longer.

[Sondrelk]

I don’t know why people particularly want a 10.3. It’s not necessary. The main storyline of the expansion is the Primal Incarnates, of which seems to be due resolution in 10.2. The Tyr storyline is an important one but it’s not the primary narrative. It could easily be resolved in a 10.2.5 story patch or be used as a plot hook for a future expansion.

Just give us fated raids, a new or revamped dungeon and some story and world content in 10.2.5 with the next expansion looming and everyone’s happy. The main story of DF is resolved, with the smaller ones being wrapped up in a story patch or used for future expansions. There’s no need to drag DF out longer.

Not really. The main plotline is the Dragons and their relationship to the Titans. The Incarnates are just an offshoot of how the Titan Keepers interact with Dragons, showing us a version of the aspects that don't trust the Titan Keepers, and for reasons that have still not been fully explained.

Once Tyr returns it's just a question of time until the other shoe drops and he decides to do something or other in order to further how own agenda at the cost of what the Dragons actually want. At that point the Incarnate storyline will actually have some payoff, as the aspects will have to ally with Vyranoth in opposing him.

[Revamp Man]

thats my point.

DF "big bad bosses" are pretty much done. Unless we dig up Murazond or Tyr in 10.2.5/7....
But overall- next raid IS last raid tier of the expansion.

And I'm somehow glad for it.

Storytelling in DF was on SL level if you ask me. Waaaaaaaay too disneyfied.

I loved the villains though

Fyrakk especially

[Santandame]

Not really. The main plotline is the Dragons and their relationship to the Titans. The Incarnates are just an offshoot of how the Titan Keepers interact with Dragons, showing us a version of the aspects that don't trust the Titan Keepers, and for reasons that have still not been fully explained.

Once Tyr returns it's just a question of time until the other shoe drops and he decides to do something or other in order to further how own agenda at the cost of what the Dragons actually want. At that point the Incarnate storyline will actually have some payoff, as the aspects will have to ally with Vyranoth in opposing him.

It isn’t though. The Titans and their relationship with the dragons is definitely a plot point but it isn’t driving the narrative - the Incarnates are. They’re the reason why we go to the Dragon Isles, and they’re the catalyst for everything going on there. Right from the levelling experience to the first raid with Raz freeing her siblings up to 10.1 with Fyrakk going into the caverns to get Shadowflame and free the Djaradin, to 10.1.5 with Iridikron working with the infinites and now 10.2 with Fyrakk assaulting the dream and Vyranoth finally joining us.

It has been the driving force of the Dragonflight story. The Tyr story whilst an important one has been a lot more understated and in the background instead of the more pressing theme. It’s Dragonflight’s B-plot.

Saying the Tyr storyline is the main storyline of Dragonflight is like saying the Illidan & X’era storyline was the main Legion storyline. Yes it was an important storyline that spanned the expansion, but again it was in the background and didn’t take precedent. The main storyline there was the Legion invasion, backed up by the Illidan’s destiny story.

There’s literally no way imaginable that the Tyr storyline is the main story of Dragonflight over the Primal Incarnates. It’s a story that takes place over a few quests at max level that’s spanned a couple of patches with some hidden lore in one dungeon.

[Sondrelk]

It isn’t though. The Titans and their relationship with the dragons is definitely a plot point but it isn’t driving the narrative - the Incarnates are. They’re the reason why we go to the Dragon Isles, and they’re the catalyst for everything going on there. Right from the levelling experience to the first raid with Raz freeing her siblings up to 10.1 with Fyrakk going into the caverns to get Shadowflame and free the Djaradin, to 10.1.5 with Iridikron working with the infinites and now 10.2 with Fyrakk assaulting the dream and Vyranoth finally joining us.

It has been the driving force of the Dragonflight story. The Tyr story whilst an important one has been a lot more understated and in the background instead of the more pressing theme. It’s Dragonflight’s B-plot.

Saying the Tyr storyline is the main storyline of Dragonflight is like saying the Illidan & X’era storyline was the main Legion storyline. Yes it was an important storyline that spanned the expansion, but again it was in the background and didn’t take precedent. The main storyline there was the Legion invasion, backed up by the Illidan’s destiny story.

There’s literally no way imaginable that the Tyr storyline is the main story of Dragonflight over the Primal Incarnates. It’s a story that takes place over a few quests at max level that’s spanned a couple of patches with some hidden lore in one dungeon.

I think you are confusing main plot with vehicle for main plot.
The Primal Incarnates are the vehicle through which we are told about the relationship between the Dragons and the Titan Keepers.

To pull an example from previous expansions. In MoP the main plot was faction war. It's the reason we go there, it's what drives the plot forward, and we get introduced to a similar faction war to Horde v Alliance with Pandaren v Mantid.
The vehicle through which this is shown is the Sha. All the faction conflict is what is propagating the Sha. It's the physical force that causes the conflict between the Horde and Alliance to destroy he Jade Forest statue. And it's the driving force behind why the Mantid are attacking early.

The Incarnates in Dragonflight are definitely the main antagonists so far, but the main narrative is still about Dragons and Titan keepers. That is after all the entire reason the Incarnates are fighting us to begin with.
Titan technology is what kept the Incarnates trapped. Titan keepers experiments on Dragon eggs is what radicalized Vyranoth. Iridikron is specifically out to get the Titans. And the Titans and Titan keepers are what made Dragons possible to begin with, making Galakrond go insane, and making the Proto-dragons ascend to elemental Incarnates, as well as modern Dragons and aspects.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

With how some people view AI when it comes to anything that has to do with art, I don't blame them. Some people see the word AI nowdays and start seething and frothing at he mouth.

Ideally, AI could be used to massively facilitate the process of updating assets at minimal cost while keeping the same number of people doing the same amount of work overall, at least on the texture front (as I'm unsure how far AI-generated 3d modeling has gone). However, we know full well that instead of using it to cheaply improve a full product, a company like Blizzard is more likely to use it to cut their art team's staffing and salaries significantly while still producing the same amount of work (albeit shittier).

[Santandame]

I think you are confusing main plot with vehicle for main plot.
The Primal Incarnates are the vehicle through which we are told about the relationship between the Dragons and the Titan Keepers.

To pull an example from previous expansions. In MoP the main plot was faction war. It's the reason we go there, it's what drives the plot forward, and we get introduced to a similar faction war to Horde v Alliance with Pandaren v Mantid.
The vehicle through which this is shown is the Sha. All the faction conflict is what is propagating the Sha. It's the physical force that causes the conflict between the Horde and Alliance to destroy he Jade Forest statue. And it's the driving force behind why the Mantid are attacking early.

The Incarnates in Dragonflight are definitely the main antagonists so far, but the main narrative is still about Dragons and Titan keepers. That is after all the entire reason the Incarnates are fighting us to begin with.
Titan technology is what kept the Incarnates trapped. Titan keepers experiments on Dragon eggs is what radicalized Vyranoth. Iridikron is specifically out to get the Titans. And the Titans and Titan keepers are what made Dragons possible to begin with, making Galakrond go insane, and making the Proto-dragons ascend to elemental Incarnates, as well as modern Dragons and aspects.

Not confusing anything. The main storyline of Dragonflight is literally the Primal Incarnates. We don’t go to the Dragon Isles to explore the Titans relationship with the dragons. It isn’t even an aspect of the levelling. It literally takes place in a few story chapters at max level, and with some hidden lore in a dungeon - that’s literally it.

No one has ever thought that MoP was a Sha expansion. Everyone knows it was a faction war expansion.

But using your own example against you here. The reason we go to Pandaria is because of the faction war, same as the DI with the Incarnates. The story that drives us throughout the levelling experience is the faction war conflict… just like the Primalists in Dragonflight. Yes the Sha and the Mantid and the Yaungol are threats on Pandaria - much like the Djaradin, Gnolls and Sundered Flame are on the Dragon Isles. What drives the MoP storyline is the faction war. Just like what drives the Dragonflight story is the Primal Incarnates.

I mean, if we really want to use MoP as the comparison point here, then the Tyr storyline is more comparable to the Wrathion legendary quest chain from MoP. Another important b plot storyline that spans the expansion, takes place at max level and at times interweaves with the main storyline of the expansion. Do you think Wrathion preparing for the Legion’s return was the main storyline of Pandaria? Probably not, because it wasn’t.

If you think that the main story of Dragonflight is Tyr & the Titans relationship with the dragons over the Primal Incarnates then I don’t know what else to tell you other than that you’re wrong.

[huth]

That chart is useless without definition.

Let's not forget that chart was explicitly made by somebody who is neither objective nor has access to the full picture, especially regarding things not pertaining to the Shadowlands.