The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Sondrelk]

If you think that the main story of Dragonflight is Tyr & the Titans relationship with the dragons over the Primal Incarnates then I don’t know what else to tell you other than that you’re wrong.

The Primal Incarnates are all about going against the Titans and Titan Keepers though. It's Iridikrons entire motivation. It's the backstory of Vyranoth and presumably Fyrakk. Razsageth we don't know, but she was also all about the Dragons being wrong for submitting to the Titans.

The entire conflict between the Aspects and Incarnates is centered around their differing ideas about the Titan influence on Azeroth. The Incarnates don't like it, and the Aspects do.
The central character in the whole mess is Tyr, who was the one primarily focused on experimenting on the Proto-dragons. We know he ensured the Aspects came to be, and we know he did experiments on infusing magic into Proto-dragons, creating the Incarnates in some way.

[Santandame]

The Primal Incarnates are all about going against the Titans and Titan Keepers though. It's Iridikrons entire motivation. It's the backstory of Vyranoth and presumably Fyrakk. Razsageth we don't know, but she was also all about the Dragons being wrong for submitting to the Titans.

The entire conflict between the Aspects and Incarnates is centered around their differing ideas about the Titan influence on Azeroth. The Incarnates don't like it, and the Aspects do.
The central character in the whole mess is Tyr, who was the one primarily focused on experimenting on the Proto-dragons. We know he ensured the Aspects came to be, and we know he did experiments on infusing magic into Proto-dragons, creating the Incarnates in some way.

That’s pretty much like saying that Sargeras feared the Void Lords because they can create Dark Titans, and for that reason Sargeras went mad and started the Legion. So Sargeras relationship with the Void Lords is the main storyline of Legion.

Yes, the relationship between Tyr, the Aspects and the Primalists is important. Yes, it plays a significant role in the DF story. Yes, Tyr is the central figure to that particular story. It doesn’t change that the literal main storyline of Dragonflight is the story of the Primal Incarnates. Once that storyline with what they’re trying to achieve is wrapped up, then the main storyline of Dragonflight is wrapped up.

Just like Legion wrapped up with the defeat of the Legion despite their still being Void Lords out there who were ultimately responsible for Sargeras creating the Legion.

Just like MoP was wrapped up with the defeat of Garrosh despite faction tensions remaining high as evidenced with Varian stating after the raid that the next step is deposing Sylvanas.

Just like how Shadowlands was wrapped up with the defeat of the Jailer despite the 7th force remaining at large, the reason why Zovaal wanted to remake the cosmos.

[Palapop]

If 10.2 was the last patch PERIOD, it would still have more content added from launch to end than Legion.

That copium.
Did you even play Legion?

[Sondrelk]

That’s pretty much like saying that Sargeras feared the Void Lords because they can create Dark Titans, and for that reason Sargeras went mad and started the Legion. So Sargeras relationship with the Void Lords is the main storyline of Legion.

Yes, the relationship between Tyr, the Aspects and the Primalists is important. Yes, it plays a significant role in the DF story. Yes, Tyr is the central figure to that particular story. It doesn’t change that the literal main storyline of Dragonflight is the story of the Primal Incarnates. Once that storyline with what they’re trying to achieve is wrapped up, then the main storyline of Dragonflight is wrapped up.

Just like Legion wrapped up with the defeat of the Legion despite their still being Void Lords out there who were ultimately responsible for Sargeras creating the Legion.

Just like MoP was wrapped up with the defeat of Garrosh despite faction tensions remaining high as evidenced with Varian stating after the raid that the next step is deposing Sylvanas.

Just like how Shadowlands was wrapped up with the defeat of the Jailer despite the 7th force remaining at large, the reason why Zovaal wanted to remake the cosmos.

So your argument is that the plotlines that have been brought up. The motivations of the villains that they have mentioned specifically several times. The actual questlines dealing with the Titans influence. Is in fact all the same as the Sargeras' motivation that he never stated in Legion, was never brought up, and was not pertinent to any real character in Legion.

I don't know how you could make the Titan plot more obvious. Every single patch has had us attempting to revive Tyr, while simultaneously learning about the shady stuff he did. Every patch has had a villain talking about how much they want to not have the Dragons linked to the Titans.

I get your argument, but I think it's a gross understatement of how integral the Titans are to Dragonflight.

[Marlamin]

There are so many unused things being datamined on this expansion that the clue for the next expansion is probably hidden in plain sight.

It'll be fun when Blizzcon comes out, and the announcement shows something that could've been predicted based on 10.0 unused stuff.

Oh, definitely. There's much more stuff than has been reported on as well so far, even going back as far as 10.0.0. It'll be a lot of fun to see how many of those predicted dots actually end up connecting, and more interestingly, if not, why?

It seems like they are also slowly changing old armour to give it a HD look via AI (because no human would want to go over the tens of thousands of old gear just to give it an high rezz upscale):

https://twitter.com/kraulspine/statu...42966332297293

Great news if so, and I really hope they also do this with classic/tbc era mounts next expansion - new stuff is cool, but sometimes I just want to use old mounts/sets and would love them to be on par with modern stuff!

AI uprezzing (which is different from AI art generated from text, before people go apeshit) might be used there, but also keep in mind vanilla shipped with very small/compressed versions of what were originally much more detailed PSDs which they should largely still have available in their versioning system so a lot of these are probably just re-exports of their original art as well. They are no longer constrained to texture sizes as much as they were back then.

[Cheezits]

Looks like the Gnoll Decay boss is NOT in this patch, interestingly enough.

Oh, definitely. There's much more stuff than has been reported on as well so far, even going back as far as 10.0.0. It'll be a lot of fun to see how many of those predicted dots actually end up connecting, and more interestingly, if not, why?

If next expansion isn't a revamp, based on Ion's comments the only reason it would be that is because they need more time.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

Damn, i really hope this Lo'Gosh set won't take whole year to release.

As for revamp i really hope it will become true, but dunno i really have big doubts that it won't happen in the end.

If it will happen, it could be the longest expansion they've been cooking it behind the scenes.

[Sondrelk]

That copium.
Did you even play Legion?

How is it not true? Did you play 7.2?
The only thing Legion had a lot of was different class campaigns, and most of those have been grossly overstated in how in-depth they were.

DF will have two full new zones and a revamped one that didnt do anything at launch. You would have to somehow argue that Argus' three small zones are somehow actually outstripping Dragonflight and it's two full large zones to have the same amount of area added.

[Santandame]

Looks like the Gnoll Decay boss is NOT in this patch, interestingly enough.



If next expansion isn't a revamp, based on Ion's comments the only reason it would be that is because they need more time.

The Gnoll Decay boss surviving screams revamp hook to me. It’s a way of making the Gnoll’s more of a significant threat as opposed to them just being cannibalistic bandits living in the woods. Wratheye can teach decay magic to the wider Gnoll populace and begin to Marshall them under one clan.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

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How is it not true? Did you play 7.2?
The only thing Legion had a lot of was different class campaigns, and most of those have been grossly overstated in how in-depth they were.

DF will have two full new zones and a revamped one that didnt do anything at launch. You would have to somehow argue that Argus' three small zones are somehow actually outstripping Dragonflight and it's two full large zones to have the same amount of area added.

I mean saying that Legion had only different class campaigns is a really weird statement.

Legion brought world quests system, legendary drops, m+, weapon artifacts, every class campaigns, artifact farmable and hidden appearances and class mounts, mage tower which was a huge feature up until the end(probably the one of the biggest feature wow ever had), last patch had allied races already added amongts other things, edit: lvling changes/scaling..

You can just say you didn't like legion or something, but bringing a big lie about it having only different class campaigns - shame on you.

[Sondrelk]

Oh, definitely. There's much more stuff than has been reported on as well so far, even going back as far as 10.0.0. It'll be a lot of fun to see how many of those predicted dots actually end up connecting, and more interestingly, if not, why?

I am curious whether the predictions will follow the same pattern they tend to.
An obvious candidate will be available long before. In this case Avaloren/Backside of Azeroth. Though world revamp is actually a highly likely one for once, and not just the memes.
We will get lots of prediction based on the obvious candidate, but as the predictions roll by we will eventually switch tracks to something that is only vaguely set up in the final patch. Dragon Isles leading up to SL for instance.
Eventually the unlikely prediction will be the only one getting all the in-depth leaks.
Blizzcon rolls around and lo and behold, it was the obvious choice everyone guessed months ago.

[DelusionalBear]

(because no human would want to go over the tens of thousands of old gear just to give it an high rezz upscale):

its called job. they are paid money to do it. 'want' have nothing with it

[Ersula]

I still don't get why some people are so hell bent on getting another raid after Amidrassil .... I would rather have a few months of relaxed fated farm raids instead of having to do progress until the last minute. Also new expansion > any patch, so I would rather get 11.0 in late summer instead of another dragged out raid tier.

The average length of every expansion has always been 24 months. Releasing this next expansion in August would throw that average way off. It's most likely going to come out November 2024 while an August 2024 release is as likely as a February 2025 release.

It seems like they are also slowly changing old armour to give it a HD look via AI (because no human would want to go over the tens of thousands of old gear just to give it an high rezz upscale):

Some Dataminers in reply to that post are saying it likely isn't AI upscaling, but that the original in house versions of these files were higher res. Artists generally don't like digital paining with big pixels. The artists who make the textures originally created higher resolution textures, that were compressed (downscaled) for implementation when they first appeared in the game. And now they're using the original production higher resolution textures.

That's almost certainly a store/cross promo set. Maybe Trading Post.

My deepest desire for WoW has always been for them to do a post-apocalyptic themed expansion. I was hoping they'd commit to the time difference in Shadowlands & Jaina, Thrall, Anduin & Baine return to find Azeroth got destroyed from something ubiquitous & everything is Mad Max Fury Road

Y'all think there is a domain of Life or not?

I just don't think we should conceptualize it as a physical space. According to the Cosmology chart, The Material Plane, Ethereal Plane, The Elemental Planes, the Shadowlands & The Dream are physical locations. The things outside that are meant to be spheres of influence: Each cosmic force has a seat of power that we could go visit, but its not its own dimension. The forces of Life simply exist within all living things.

We know there's a Zereth Vitae, but I have no idea what they'd be doing there, as it was established Zareth Mortis both builds afterlives, but was also where they created the base models for all living things. And that life energy comes from the Great Cycle, aka Ardenweald funneling Anima back into the material plane.

If 10.2 was the last patch PERIOD, it would still have more content added from launch to end than Legion.

Only if you count stealing Final Fantasy XIV's crafting system "new content".

[Cheezits]

Unless Amirdrassil is the main hub for an Avaloren expansion (it is on the edge of the map) then it also implies a revamp because otherwise it is immediately irrelevant.

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The Gnoll Decay boss surviving screams revamp hook to me. It’s a way of making the Gnoll’s more of a significant threat as opposed to them just being cannibalistic bandits living in the woods. Wratheye can teach decay magic to the wider Gnoll populace and begin to Marshall them under one clan.

I can see it, but I can also see her being involved in some final plot to poison the waters of Tyrhold similar to how Galakrond was created.

I would prefer we get lots of Gnolls in a revamp or to have her make the Mongrel Horde that is stacking different areas.

[Hellspawn]

Unless Amirdrassil is the main hub for an Avaloren expansion (it is on the edge of the map) then it also implies a revamp because otherwise it is immediately irrelevant.

How would it be relevant if it stays on the dragon isle?

[Cheezits]

How would it be relevant if it stays on the dragon isle?

Quests, ships and portals to new content if it stays on the isles.

[Ersula]

Unless Amirdrassil is the main hub for an Avaloren expansion (it is on the edge of the map) then it also implies a revamp because otherwise it is immediately irrelevant.

That's a good point. Amirdrassil can't really function as a City Hub for an old world revamp if its in the Dragon Isles. But I'd guess if they revamped Kalimdor & Eastern Kingdoms It'd be like Vanilla Launch, where there were 8 races but only 6 faction cities.

There's no real reason to have more than 1 hub per expansion, or 2 if they separate them by faction. I bet a Revamp expansion would extensively revamp Stormwind & Orgrimmar but the other cities are treated like a small village with a bank. Like the Night Elf capital is Amirdrassil, like Suramar, but some Night Elves go back to the Ruins of Teldrassil & clean it up, setting up a military base at the very least.

Let's not forget that chart was explicitly made by somebody who is neither objective nor has access to the full picture, especially regarding things not pertaining to the Shadowlands.

Yes, but then we got a second perspective in the form of the Broker's map, which was almost entirely the same: They just grouped the physical reality, shadowlands, emerald dream middle section of the Titan map into its own sphere called "the Great Cycle". It's accurate for its purposes.

The Warlands AU fits perfectly

I'm still thinking about that leaked cinematic shot. If its real, and it is an Orc in Blue & a Human in Red, we might be getting an AU Azeroth.

[Hellspawn]

Honestly I'm good with Amirdrassil not being a mainhub now or in the future. I could only see it if lifelands would be the next expansion.
Its too far of for Kalimdor or Eastern Kingdoms and if we go to Avaloren, there will be a hub over there.

[Dracullus]

Honestly I'm good with Amirdrassil not being a mainhub now or in the future. I could only see it if lifelands would be the next expansion.
Its too far of for Kalimdor or Eastern Kingdoms and if we go to Avaloren, there will be a hub over there.

It's strange to me why people want so much new tree taken out of blue. In revamped world I would prefer Hyjal as start and capital for Nelfs. That's even more iconic than Teldrassil.

[Hellspawn]

It's strange to me why people want so much new tree taken out of blue. In revamped world I would prefer Hyjal as start and capital for Nelfs. That's even more iconic than Teldrassil.

... this assumes that in a revamp they would do race based starting Zones again. (which I doubt would happen)
But assuming they do that, starting in Amirdrassil and then port over to (via dreamway) Hyjal or even Darkshore is really not thaaaat different then going over from Teldrassil to Darkshore. I would still put the main hub on Hyjal (and make Amirdrassil just the starting zone).