The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Sondrelk]

Also do Blizzard need to be reminded they can do a small raid? Either as a major patch (5 - 8 bosses) or a minor patch (2 - 4) bosses. Seems to me the perfect end to this expansion would be a 5 boss raid released in 10.3 & then fated versions of all the raids released in 10.3.5

I imagine they stopped doing them after Crucible of Storms showed it only worked if it had as much effort put into it as Trial of Valor. It wasnt really a guaranteed success like what the Megadungeons were.

[Fahrad Wagner]

Yeah, another megadungeon would help a lot. For example changing Nighthold 'Karazhan style' into dungeon with new and returning bosses. They are teasing it's return, but when I think about it timewalking raid as seasonal content feels weird, Nighthold was current tier only 5 months, but we raided it for transmog/mounts for years. And they have already tested Fated system for raids.

Imo we will have 3 more patches:

1) On Blizzcon revealing 11.0 + giving roadmap, 10.2 right after Blizzcon + next PTR around same time

2) 10.2.2 - January, timewalking BfA (+ expanding timewalking in general to open world), playable Shaman, Paladin or Druid for all races, Heritage Troll/Draenei

3) 10.2.5 - March, new megadungeon + open world content, patch similar to 10.1.5, epilogue for Dragonflight - we get disc of Tyr, playable Shaman, Paladin or Druid, also catch up for Season 3 similar to Forbidden Reach and Dreamsurges.

4) 10.2.7 - May, start of Season 4 - Fated raids (with systems like dinars returning), 2 M+ from megadungeon + 6 old ones, maybe first season with solo rated battlegrounds (I expect it for 11.0 though), playable Shaman, Paladin or Druid, heritage for Pandaren and Dracthyr (kinda serving like post credit DF scene).

5) Alpha/Beta from June to October.

I was on the 10.3 team but I have to admit it's more likely that DF will stop after 10.2.7! We're still gonna get some exciting content though I'm sure. Draenei and Troll heritage sets I look forward to see, Pandaren as well!

[Cheezits]

I was on the 10.3 team but I have to admit it's more likely that DF will stop after 10.2.7! We're still gonna get some exciting content though I'm sure. Draenei and Troll heritage sets I look forward to see, Pandaren as well!

Not even 10.2.7 is guaranteed because the files only listed 10.2.5 and 11.0. They could add one in after the fact, but IDK.

I am also expecting Drae and Troll heritage, but maybe they will delay Drae because of the Manari quest?

[Hitei]

Again we already fought Tyr in the Megadungeon. And why the hell would you want to waste Avaloren, which can be easily a continent on it's own just to make it a patch zone??

Feels a bit silly to use "waste" in regards to Avaloren. We "learned" about it this expansion, and I say "learned" because we don't really know anything about it besides that it's a place. Like they could easily throw in two more new place names in a clickable object in 10.2 and we'd have two new Avaloren-tier locations established for future continents.

It's not like this is Nazjatar or Argus or something, where it's an actual location with a properly established long-term lore enemy and context, where we know what it could be.

[Dracullus]

Not even 10.2.7 is guaranteed because the files only listed 10.2.5 and 11.0. They could add one in after the fact, but IDK.

I am also expecting Drae and Troll heritage, but maybe they will delay Drae because of the Manari quest?

Wasn't that file some stuff for dragonriding? It's possible that only 10.2.5 and 11.0 will have new world cup content added.

[Hitei]

Not even 10.2.7 is guaranteed because the files only listed 10.2.5 and 11.0. They could add one in after the fact, but IDK.

I am also expecting Drae and Troll heritage, but maybe they will delay Drae because of the Manari quest?

.7's are pretty minor, so I don't think it's as important that they're not listed. Given they've seemed to really taken a shine to the .0 > .5 > .7 major, update, minor cadence, I'd expect they'd keep around a .7 patch for 10.2

[Lorgar Aurelian]

She was the fucking WARCHIEF. You can't expect even the most noble Horde to just go against direct orders from the commander and chief without risking death or imprisonment.

Plus if I remember correctly all the true loyalists were chained up after she killed saurfang.

BFA starts with Saurfang going against her direct orders, ends with Baine and abunch of others doing the same thing, and even Sylvanas her self and many others went against Garrosh's direct orders when he was warchief in cata.

"just following order" is not an excuse.

[Well Done Steak]

Again we already fought Tyr in the Megadungeon. And why the hell would you want to waste Avaloren, which can be easily a continent on it's own just to make it a patch zone??

Didn't say we gonna fight Tyr, we might, I'm saying Uldaz is probably going to be a mini raid after amirdrassil as the infinite hand lists it and is the only uld facility left from the maiden's list. Uldorus being tyrhold.

I don't think Tyr will be an enemy, my money is on Odyn.

As, for Avaloren, that's up to blizz

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BFA starts with Saurfang going against her direct orders, ends with Baine and abunch of others doing the same thing, and even Sylvanas her self and many others went against Garrosh's direct orders when he was warchief in cata.

"just following order" is not an excuse.

None of them were instant.... It all took time. You expect INSTANT insubordination, which isn't realistic.

So yeah it's an excuse when it takes time and careful planning to dethrone your commander and chief.

[Skildar]

X.7 patches goal have been to progress the story a bit while giving players tools to get some decent gear easily before the next big content patch

With Fyrakk getting killed in the last raid tier and Vyranoth switching side, it feels like the story of Dragonflight will come to an end with this raid tier. So I wouldn't expect a 10.2.7 patch nor will I expect to see a 10.3 patch. It's a bit sad honestly that this expansion story ends this way, the incarnates have been better than Zovaal for sure but I enjoyed better how Shadowlands story ended compared to Dragonflight.

We will see in November what the game can offer for the future, for now I'm being quite pessimistic due to bad quality of the story content of 10.1.7 and the very little bits we've seen of 10.2

[Well Done Steak]

X.7 patches goal have been to progress the story a bit while giving players tools to get some decent gear easily before the next big content patch

With Fyrakk getting killed in the last raid tier and Vyranoth switching side, it feels like the story of Dragonflight will come to an end with this raid tier. So I wouldn't expect a 10.2.7 patch nor will I expect to see a 10.3 patch. It's a bit sad honestly that this expansion story ends this way, the incarnates have been better than Zovaal for sure but I enjoyed better how Shadowlands story ended compared to Dragonflight.

We will see in November what the game can offer for the future, for now I'm being quite pessimistic due to bad quality of the story content of 10.1.7 and the very little bits we've seen of 10.2

You'll feel different for 2.5 and the potential Uldaz mini raid.

[Sondrelk]

Feels a bit silly to use "waste" in regards to Avaloren. We "learned" about it this expansion, and I say "learned" because we don't really know anything about it besides that it's a place. Like they could easily throw in two more new place names in a clickable object in 10.2 and we'd have two new Avaloren-tier locations established for future continents.

It's not like this is Nazjatar or Argus or something, where it's an actual location with a properly established long-term lore enemy and context, where we know what it could be.

Have to agree. It's like saying Zaralek caverns was wasted on a patch when it could have been a vast cave network underneath Azeroth used by Deathwing and filled with Nerubians and Old God remnants.
Sure it's true, but it's also a meaningless point ot make when we know nothing.

The only reason Avaloren is given so much focus is because it's possibly the backside of Azeroth, which understndably shouldnt be a single small island.

[Skildar]

BFA starts with Saurfang going against her direct orders, ends with Baine and abunch of others doing the same thing, and even Sylvanas her self and many others went against Garrosh's direct orders when he was warchief in cata.

"just following order" is not an excuse.

The issue with BfA is that Saurfang started the war (he didn't follow Sylvanas, he agrees with her that this war must be started for the horde to have a future as an equal to the Alliance) and then did a 180 when he managed to injure Malfurion on a battlefield. The guy is depicted as having a peanut for a brain and can't stop talking about honour, etc. I imagine it being pretty hard for leaders and soldiers of the horde to follow such buffoonery

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You'll feel different for 2.5 and the potential Uldaz mini raid.

They ended with a mini raid during WotLK, I'm not sure they will attempt it again.

[Sondrelk]

The issue with BfA is that Saurfang started the war (he didn't follow Sylvanas, he agrees with her that this war must be started for the horde to have a future as an equal to the Alliance) and then did a 180 when he managed to injure Malfurion on a battlefield. The guy is depicted as having a peanut for a brain and can't stop talking about honour, etc. I imagine it being pretty hard for leaders and soldiers of the horde to follow such buffoonery

The issue I saw is that the "A Good Soldier" story released alongside BfA gave him an understandable motivation. However said motivation was both not shown in-game, nor was it ever a theme within BfA as a whole.
A version of BfA where the Horde is coerced into Teldrassil, and then sticks to it for an actually justified fear of total annihilation from the Alliance would be interesting. You could have actually played with the knowledge that the Horde would be finished should they concede defeat, and have Sylvanas prey on those fears to further escalate the war, making it even harder for the Horde to capitulate.

Instead the Horde gets away with everything because the Alliance are toothless, and everything was done by nebulous Sylvanas loyalists who are never mentioned or acknowledged until the very end when they are all in chains.

[Well Done Steak]

The issue with BfA is that Saurfang started the war (he didn't follow Sylvanas, he agrees with her that this war must be started for the horde to have a future as an equal to the Alliance) and then did a 180 when he managed to injure Malfurion on a battlefield. The guy is depicted as having a peanut for a brain and can't stop talking about honour, etc. I imagine it being pretty hard for leaders and soldiers of the horde to follow such buffoonery

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They ended with a mini raid during WotLK, I'm not sure they will attempt it again.

Why not? Ruby sanctum was pretty good and a nice segue into Cata.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

None of them were instant.... It all took time. You expect INSTANT insubordination, which isn't realistic.

So yeah it's an excuse when it takes time and careful planning to dethrone your commander and chief.

I’m not expecting instant insubordination, I expect any at all, and there was none.

The Majority of the horde weren’t planning on dethroning her like Garrosh, her she had popular support and the token forces that stood against her couldn’t have taken her down even with the alliance army backing them up.

And as far as the forsaken them self go, none of the council members in question were ever against her, you can even find some of them after she leaves who tell you that they were loyal to her but after she abandoned them they will stick with the horde.

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The issue with BfA is that Saurfang started the war (he didn't follow Sylvanas, he agrees with her that this war must be started for the horde to have a future as an equal to the Alliance) and then did a 180 when he managed to injure Malfurion on a battlefield. The guy is depicted as having a peanut for a brain and can't stop talking about honour, etc. I imagine it being pretty hard for leaders and soldiers of the horde to follow such buffoonery

Well ya Saurfang is a blundering moron but even if horde members didn’t want to follow him they could have joined any number of natural factions to show case an actual split in the horde post darnnassas so the horde would atleast have some plausible deniability post BFA.

As is now it’s totally unbelievable any one would let the horde and even more so abunch of Sylvanas’s core leading members who now run the forsaken any where near night elf territory or a new world tree like we see in 10.2.

[Well Done Steak]

I’m not expecting instant insubordination, I expect any at all, and there was none.

The Majority of the horde weren’t planning on dethroning her like Garrosh, her she had popular support and the token forces that stood against her couldn’t have taken her down even with the alliance army backing them up.

And as far as the forsaken them self go, none of the council members in question were ever against her, you can even find some of them after she leaves who tell you that they were loyal to her but after she abandoned them they will stick with the horde.

There was none? Saurfang begged players to not use the plague in Lorederon and then got himself arrested.

Bain then returned jaina's brother to her.

Garrosh had popular vote also and also had control of most of the horde. Both cases the rebels only had access to a handful of forces, since you know... The WARCHIEF had supreme command and you lower ranking members ain't gonna do shit.

As for the forsaken, they're gonna look after their own and they need leadership. Renouncing sylvanas and regretting their part, along with sending troops to defend Amirdrassil is gonna have to be enough. So the alliance needs to suck it up and accept it without causing another useless war because they're still upset at a lack of justice against some forsaken.

[Samin]

Again we already fought Tyr in the Megadungeon. And why the hell would you want to waste Avaloren, which can be easily a continent on it's own just to make it a patch zone??

What's your problem with Tyr? He will obviously continue to play a role at least in DF. Just because we fought him (an alternate version) in a dungeon doesn't mean he's done with for this expansion.

[Well Done Steak]

Well ya Saurfang is a blundering moron but even if horde members didn’t want to follow him they could have joined any number of natural factions to show case an actual split in the horde post darnnassas so the horde would atleast have some plausible deniability post BFA.

As is now it’s totally unbelievable any one would let the horde and even more so abunch of Sylvanas’s core leading members who now run the forsaken any where near night elf territory or a new world tree like we see in 10.2.

Abandoning is also cause for death...

The forsaken arent the only ones defending the tree... They have a lot of eyes on them so they wouldn't try anything stupid.

This is their ultimate atonement. So yeah it's believable.

This is also a game where the characters sense of justice isn't as complex and nuanced as real life human...

[Shadowferal]

This is their ultimate atonement. So yeah it's believable.

"Believable?"
It shouldn't be to Nightelves

[Well Done Steak]

"Believable?"
It shouldn't be to Nightelves

Sure, which is why they're not the only ones defending it. Again, lots of eyes on them in a cosmic realm without any cosmic back up if they were scheming something stupid. Not like they have anything to gain...

Once the tree is defend though.... Should be in a better place with the nelves...

Similar to how Germany is part of NATO.

THATS JUST AN EXAMPLE.

This fictional situation is not as complex as real life affairs.

Point is the forsaken are atoning for their crimes and should be in a better place with the alliance post 10.2. Not saying some nelves can't hold a grudge either