The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Scyth]

Btw, talking about bosses - now that Vyranoth is our bestie, I really hope we still get her skin as a mount reward down the line, maybe via the main campaign or epilogue?

Yeah I reckon we either get it through a campaign or as a Traveler's Log reward at some point.
Could be a reward for the, hopefully, upcoming Red flight story as I can't imagine her not being involved in that now.

[Annihilas]

Probably but I think they're likely to try and avoid the assumption that every cosmic force has a specific 'domain' in the vein of shadowlands. In the 2020 cosmology chart it seemed to suggest Shadowlands was more akin to the Dream than it was to something like the Twisting Nether or the Void.

It's a bit confusing because the chart sort of implies that if there is a 'Domain of Life' then there is also a 'Domain of Death' that is more than part of the Shadowlands. Not sure if that is a good or bad thing really.

It would be cathartic if we learned that the Shadowlands are not the true afterlife, or the true realm of death.

The best course of action would be to:
A.) Solidify the Titans as the real "First Ones" in the Game's Universe.
B.) Turn the Shadowlands into the Titan's own abandoned pet project.
C.) Make the creation of Dreadlords something the Titans never knew.
D.) Emerald Dream is Elunes domain, but something happened to her.

[Dracullus]

The logic we are contending with here is that Blizzard would show a 2024 Roadmap to a live audience that depicts the removal of content and reduction of expansion content output.

That's the only real sticking point if we had the Roadmap already then, sure.

Obviously maybe they won't even show the Roadmap and they will just try and blow this situation over with the Expansion news.

I definitely vibe with the fact that Blizzard are downsizing WoW and trying to reduce overbearing costs of a non-growth franchise. It just feels like the direction we're heading.

This is so stupid. I get people liking raids may hate Blizzard decision about 3 raids + fated model, but this is ridiculous to say Blizzard is downsizing WoW or reducing cost while we got more outdoor content than ever (and we still don't know what awaits in post 10.2 small patches) - not only main continent is big as Northrend and filled with stuff like modern zones, but also in patches we get 1 unused small zone + 2 big new zones.

If they wanted 4th raid, they could EASILY make this even with exactly same resources. How? Change megadungeon into raid, move Forbidden reach from 10.0.7 to 10.1.5 and call it 10.2. DONE.

I know this may be culture shock after old expacs when often raids were ONLY content we get in patches. But raids are no longer only or even main PVE content most invested people focus on, it's just one of several progression paths in game.

[Zers Editor]

Speaking of Tyr... I thought this toy was VERY interesting.

https://ptr.wowdb.com/items/208798-r...-of-tyrs-guard

The MEMORIES of Tyrs Guard? Are they gone already?

Likely no, but hoping that means they will play a larger role in his resurrection and the resolution between him and the Aspects.

[Dracullus]

Speaking of Tyr... I thought this toy was VERY interesting.

https://ptr.wowdb.com/items/208798-r...-of-tyrs-guard

The MEMORIES of Tyrs Guard? Are they gone already?

Doubt about that, they looks like way to introduce Paladins to all races at once.

But this probably means that mission to recover disc in Nighthold will be 10.2 thing. Wasn't also some scenario with Odin datamined?

[Xilurm]

https://twitter.com/TheRedShirtGuy/s...80318764806186

This is such a non-issue. Holy shit...

[RahEndymion]

The best course of action would be to:
A.) Solidify the Titans as the real "First Ones" in the Game's Universe.
B.) Turn the Shadowlands into the Titan's own abandoned pet project.
C.) Make the creation of Dreadlords something the Titans never knew.
D.) Emerald Dream is Elunes domain, but something happened to her.

I think you're spot on with this honestly. That would be my preferred outcome. I wouldn't mind there being a precursor or even parallel group of non-titan 'first ones' but it does sort of grate that both groups are attempting to fill the same roll for what appears to be no good reason.

My head cannon is that the first ones sectioned off a piece of the Death realm and created the ordered Shadowlands.

So the SL is to the Death realm what The emerald Dream is to the life realm. Now the Dream is just 1 planet and Titan created, but maybe the Titans stumbled onto it and reshaped something that already existed to fir their needs. IE re origination. What if the First Ones created billions or trillions of realms like the ED but the Titans only stumbled upon Azeroths and remade it in their image.

Or it could be that there is a First Ones created Lifelands too, but that its kind of a pocket dimension of the true primordial life plane. Maybe the Titans created the Dream from a part of the actual Life plane just how the First Ones created the SL out of the Death Dimension.

This is pretty much my assumption too. The 'first ones' created the Shadowlands and engineered them to be work in the way they do rather than the true and standard functioning of the original or wider true realm of death. I think this allows a lot more interesting future story telling than just 'This is death now' and perhaps a somewhat more interesting characterization of the first ones.

Rather than gods I think it makes more sense to view both the first ones and titans as more similar to aliens or just sentient beings from elsewhere. I know they are described as the pantheon of order and death (although I cant remember if that is just fancannon or actually written as such) but I think the concept of multiple cosmic 'pantheons' in each domain doesn't really hold and somewhat cheapens the concept of a godly pantheon or precursor species in the first place.

Personally, I think that the Titans/First Ones are their most interesting when viewed as an ancient immortal(for titans at least) race of beings with a specific agenda rather than some all powerful creator species.

Interested to see how this could actually impact future lore and what direction people think the dev's will actually take things?

[micwini]

https://twitter.com/TheRedShirtGuy/s...80318764806186

This is such a non-issue. Holy shit...

The daily mainstream propaganda seems to have increasingly dumbfounded results.
People who have issues with this kind of shit should turn off any mainstream news and just go outside and form their own opinions through experience.

Wokeism must die ASAP.

[Sondrelk]

https://twitter.com/TheRedShirtGuy/s...80318764806186

This is such a non-issue. Holy shit...

Yeah that is a massive reach on his part. Looking at a pointy wizard hat and thinking it looks the same as a capirote because if the similar pointy end just seems desperate.

- - - Updated - - -

The best course of action would be to:
A.) Solidify the Titans as the real "First Ones" in the Game's Universe.
B.) Turn the Shadowlands into the Titan's own abandoned pet project.
C.) Make the creation of Dreadlords something the Titans never knew.
D.) Emerald Dream is Elunes domain, but something happened to her.

This was how I imagined it back at the end of SL at least. Just don't bother creating a new tier of celestial beings above the Titans, and instead just make the Titans more important than before.
Sure, we have seen and interracted wiht the Titans before, but it's not like that was a constant thing. We could easily keep it just as mysterious by playing it up when the Titans inevitably disappear again. The red star is still in the Skies of Azeroth, and once it disappears it should have some ramifications for the plot.

[Yarathir]

https://twitter.com/TheRedShirtGuy/s...80318764806186

This is such a non-issue. Holy shit...

Modern WoW player moment.

[Annihilas]

Yeah that is a massive reach on his part. Looking at a pointy wizard hat and thinking it looks the same as a capirote because if the similar pointy end just seems desperate.

- - - Updated - - -



This was how I imagined it back at the end of SL at least. Just don't bother creating a new tier of celestial beings above the Titans, and instead just make the Titans more important than before.
Sure, we have seen and interracted wiht the Titans before, but it's not like that was a constant thing. We could easily keep it just as mysterious by playing it up when the Titans inevitably disappear again. The red star is still in the Skies of Azeroth, and once it disappears it should have some ramifications for the plot.

In Metzen we trust...

[Teriz]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Yrel snooze fest.
I can’t wait to go yet another expansion without seeing Yrel.

Every expansion isn't going to appeal to every player.

Also “very popular” lol. Pretty sure I remember not many people liking Yrel in WoD because she was such a Mary Sue.

I didn't say "very popular", I said "popular" in that she appears in Blizzard media outside of WoW. For example, there's a new Yrel hero skin in Hearthstone for the current Titan expansion;

With that logic Thrall also fits in a void/old god expansion given he was center stage in the visions of N’zoth. (And don’t forget the entirety of cataclysm.)

Thrall's familial connections with the Mag'har goes quite a bit deeper than him playing a central role in a given conflict. He views the Mag'har as his people, with the leader of the Mag'har serving as a mentor to his wife for example. Essentially if Yrel invades, one of her prime targets is going to be the Mag'har that escaped Draenor, and that involves Thrall in a personal way.

Or maybe thrall is just on the art because of Metzen’s return which will be likely a hype point at Blizzcon.

Doubtful, considering the rather consistent history of the expansion's theme showing up in the BlizzCon key art prior to the event. IMO, Metzen playing a major role in the announcement just reinforces the notion that 11.0 is going to be very orc-centered, just like WoD was 10 years prior.

- - - Updated - - -

Name one reason the infinites would do it

Morchie wants payback for us thwarting the Infinite's plans in the mini dungeon? An infinite drake views an advantage from a Yrel invasion? They're evil d-bags? Blizzard could create any BS reason they want. The point is that the Infinite Dragonflight has the means and the desire to pull something like that story-wise.

[Teriz]

Clearly. Lol.

Unfortunately feelings don’t mean much. I have never been less interested in a character than Yrel so I hope you’re wrong. Also unfortunately, I believe after 10 e pensions, leftover ideas like Yrel could very well be explored because they don’t have anything better.

But they could really make it more interesting with a character with more depth.

These are all opinions of course, but the notion of light and the Draenei being the enemy is a novel one, and Blizzard can do a lot with it. Alongside the irony that we stopped Garrosh's Iron Horde from invading Azeroth, but we ended up creating another, more dangerous horde in the process.

In the end, religious villainy can be quite interesting and contain a lot of depth if done properly. This partially explains why many here would like to see a return of the Scarlet Crusade for example.

[Yarathir]

All this for a wizard's hat, everything that is most classic in fantasy
I don't know how people can take this seriously

I checked further, and apparently it's a case of "le poc people say its bad therefore it's bad and the people acting incredulous at such a dumb, reaching claim proves that the hat is bad and courts toxic evil booboo stinky people"

Just the usual twitter nonsense by terminally online people.

[RahEndymion]

I checked further, and apparently it's a case of "le poc people say its bad therefore it's bad and the people acting incredulous at such a dumb, reaching claim proves that the hat is bad and courts toxic evil booboo stinky people"

Just the usual twitter nonsense by terminally online people.

It's sad that these terminally online people, the twitter and reddit crowd, seem to be the very people with the ear of the dev's now days.

Personally, I don't think there's a single good thing that has come from needlessly conflating things in a fictional universe with real life evil. Specially when it's as asinine as 'vague white coloured triangular head piece is similar to vague white coloured triangular head piece worn by racists in one country'.

Hopefully this just blows under the rug and 10.2.2 doesn't come complete with the removal of everything that could be mistaken for something bad by somebody both drunk and partially sighted.

[Cheezits]

It was really just two people that were saying it could be seen as racist (though one of them is part of the twitter cabal of like ten users Blizzard seems to listen to a lot). Now that it blew up and people dogpiled them, it will definitely be changed.

Next time don't go so crazy on them.

[Yarathir]

the problem is that Blizzard will definitely listen to them and ruin the set
for a long time I wanted a classic wizard's pointy hat like the vanilla ones...

It's sad that these terminally online people, the twitter and reddit crowd, seem to be the very people with the ear of the dev's now days.

Personally, I don't think there's a single good thing that has come from needlessly conflating things in a fictional universe with real life evil. Specially when it's as asinine as 'vague white coloured triangular head piece is similar to vague white coloured triangular head piece worn by racists in one country'.

Hopefully this just blows under the rug and 10.2.2 doesn't come complete with the removal of everything that could be mistaken for something bad by somebody both drunk and partially sighted.

Yep, you're right. Sadly, this is the case and the most you can do is hope that they don't reflexively kowtow to these nonsense demands out of a fear that if they don't, they'll be "courting outrage again."

It's just Baalsamael and his clique of pathologically umbrage-taking twitter warriors again, but there's a good chance Blizzard just sees "PEOPLE ANGRY. MUST CHANGE/REMOVE." Let's hope that's not the case.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

The best course of action would be to:
A.) Solidify the Titans as the real "First Ones" in the Game's Universe.
B.) Turn the Shadowlands into the Titan's own abandoned pet project.
C.) Make the creation of Dreadlords something the Titans never knew.
D.) Emerald Dream is Elunes domain, but something happened to her.

This was how I imagined it back at the end of SL at least. Just don't bother creating a new tier of celestial beings above the Titans, and instead just make the Titans more important than before.
Sure, we have seen and interracted wiht the Titans before, but it's not like that was a constant thing. We could easily keep it just as mysterious by playing it up when the Titans inevitably disappear again. The red star is still in the Skies of Azeroth, and once it disappears it should have some ramifications for the plot.

Honestly, the first two bits aren't much better than what we have now. I prefer the titans as exceedingly-advanced aliens with a drive to order the material universe; the only reason why I think they and the First Ones are redundant is because the First Ones manifest nigh-identically, not because they're conceptually similar on a fundamental level. More prominently, the idea behind the First Ones is itself terrible because it cheapens the other Cosmic Forces. Upping the titans beyond their current ken into the same position wouldn't mitigate the problem in the least.

Yep, you're right. Sadly, this is the case and the most you can do is hope that they don't reflexively kowtow to these nonsense demands out of a fear that if they don't, they'll be "courting outrage again."

WoW Twitter and its consequences.

[AngerFork]

https://twitter.com/TheRedShirtGuy/s...80318764806186

This is such a non-issue. Holy shit...

What drives me crazy about things like this is that changing this won't do a thing in the long run. If Blizz does indeed change this, then the trolls will just go back to the old hat they were using. If Blizz takes out that hat as well, those trolls will just find another one to use, then another beyond that.

Chasing the willingness of trolls to use/ruin any symbol they can is a game you can never hope to win. This is where Blizz actually spending out for a properly sized customer service team to help with issues like this would be really nice. Yet, that's not the Blizz we have these days.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

It's sad that these terminally online people, the twitter and reddit crowd, seem to be the very people with the ear of the dev's now days.

Personally, I don't think there's a single good thing that has come from needlessly conflating things in a fictional universe with real life evil. Specially when it's as asinine as 'vague white coloured triangular head piece is similar to vague white coloured triangular head piece worn by racists in one country'.

Hopefully this just blows under the rug and 10.2.2 doesn't come complete with the removal of everything that could be mistaken for something bad by somebody both drunk and partially sighted.

This will serve as something of a test for just how ridiculous Blizzard's concessions to Twitter will get. We've already had a number, but this would solidly be the most egregious case because there's quite literally nothing at all to be upset about here. The last piece that was said to look like a Klan robe at least had some actual similarity, and the Alexstrasza rape thing was naturally a hot-button topic. This is an absolute non-issue, and it will serve to distinguish between Blizzard being merely generally deferential to Twitter and it being absolutely deferential.