The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Murlocos]

Habe to disagree. SL was just boring to me. BfA was equal parts baffling and infuriating.
Why does the Alliance just not immediately siege Orgrimmar with their superior navy? Why is the Horde not immediately disintegrating? Is Thalyssra actually alright with the genocide of the Nelves because Tyrande was slightly more sceptical?

I think the comedy of SL is amplified for me because BfA is ultimately just a setup for it. It's like a reverse WoD-Legion: the expansion that takes place on Azeroth and really advances the plot and state of the world ends up being sacrificed to segue into an expansion on another world/realm/whatever where not much of note really happens in the actual plot.

[Zers Editor]

I think it will be dated by the Scarlets because there's some secret foreshadowing of a female commander that one of the new names escapes to.

That's Calia's daughter. No contest.

[Woggmer]

Would be nice to see Ahn'qiraj being given a makeover. At least partially because I am curious whether they will make it a Titan facility, or an Old God one. The ziggurats and what not seem to be a feature of both Titan Uldum, and Ny'alotha.

I would say a Titan facility, C'thun is just gone and I don't think Blizz may try to bring him back. It could result in the idea of... "what happens when they unleash Order on an Old God creation?"

[Cheezits]

That's Calia's daughter. No contest.

That was my takeaway too.

[Sondrelk]

I think the comedy of SL is amplified for me because BfA is ultimately just a setup for it. It's like a reverse WoD-Legion: the expansion that takes place on Azeroth and really advances the plot and state of the world ends up being sacrificed to segue into an expansion on another world/realm/whatever where not much of note really happens in the actual plot.

I can definitely agree that SL is made funnier and worse by considering it patch 8.4 of BfA. Just the final bit of horrible to cap off BfA and it's cavalcade of awful.

[Nymrohd]

What I'd do with K'aresh is focus on what the Ethereals are known for. Trade.

I'd have K'aresh itself be one zone. Akin to Argus it would be plates of land floating in space since the planet was destroyed after all. The playable zone would be a very large city with Ecodomes in the skybox. You'll be able to fly but get out of the Ecodome and you die super fast. The "Capital" for the expansion would just be a safe space somewhere central in the city with all the services concentrated, maybe with double or triple inns and banks. Then the rest of the expansion zones would be on other planets where the ethereals have trading outposts and we travel there through ethereal portals. So the ethereals and their themes would be all over the expac. As for a reason, could be so many things we want that cannot be found on Azeroth. Maybe we need to find out what happens once the soul wakes up and how to survive that. Maybe some villain actually manages to shut us out of their plan and we need to find the right magic to bypass it. Maybe Azshara takes the World Soul somehow and we are chasing after her across the cosmos.
As for zone cohesion Blizzard clearly doesn't care that much. We had Cata and yet we still got Shadowlands. The Dream has a complete chokepoint of an entrance with a portal that is not even close to Valdrakken (at least Zaralek could be accessed super fast from Valdrakken)

[Super Dickmann]

I think the comedy of SL is amplified for me because BfA is ultimately just a setup for it. It's like a reverse WoD-Legion: the expansion that takes place on Azeroth and really advances the plot and state of the world ends up being sacrificed to segue into an expansion on another world/realm/whatever where not much of note really happens in the actual plot.

I have to disagree. BFA, while easily worse for the setting, was also massively more entertaining to discuss. Every patch spawned new and more powerful memes as the plot grew more and more retarded on its trainwreck course to its conclusion. SL on the other hand, while also great to take the piss out of, was slow and laborious and inevitable. The True Potential of Humans, Morally Gray Sylvanas, Baine's achey tauren heart, Sadfang and Memeboi's story and so on are eternal. SL only has the Bald Man retcons and cosmic gobbleygook which the writers were too afraid to push to its actually interesting conclusion, but not half-assed enough to not piss everyone off.

SL was bad from start to finish in a predictable, even standard way, with all its worst elements frontloaded and obvious. BFA on the other hand grew exponentially worse and therefore more entertaining with each patch.

DF is mostly just there.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I have to disagree. BFA, while easily worse for the setting, was also massively more entertaining to discuss. Every patch spawned new and more interesting memes. SL on the other hand, while also great to take the piss out of, was slow, laborious and inevitable. The True Potential of Humans, Morally Gray Sylvanas, Baine's achey tauren heart, Sadfang and Memeboi's story and so on are eternal. SL only has the Bald Man retcons and cosmic gobbleygook which the writers were too afraid to push to its actually interesting conclusion, but not half-assed enough to not piss everyone off.

That's about right, I think. I'd frame it as that Battle for Azeroth had the benefit of being far more extravagant in how awful it was, while Shadowlands was just a plain slog. It's the difference between, say, The Room and Sia's Music in terms of awfulness. While the former is worse on most levels, it can be enjoyed without leaving a bad taste in your mouth, while the latter is just unpleasant to watch altogether. Plus, the tribalistic nature of BfA's execution meant there was more room for investment: there's a reason for you to care about what happens there, and a connection that allows the entertainment to reach its fullest form, while Shadowlands was completely disconnected from anything anybody had any reason to pay attention to.

[Raetary]

That's Calia's daughter. No contest.

If that's the case, i wonder what happened to boy that they pretended was Calias child then.

Why push a lie when you have the actual heir already in your leadership?

[Murlocos]

I have to disagree. BFA, while easily worse for the setting, was also massively more entertaining to discuss. Every patch spawned new and more powerful memes as the plot grew more and more retarded on its trainwreck course to its conclusion. SL on the other hand, while also great to take the piss out of, was slow and laborious and inevitable. The True Potential of Humans, Morally Gray Sylvanas, Baine's achey tauren heart, Sadfang and Memeboi's story and so on are eternal. SL only has the Bald Man retcons and cosmic gobbleygook which the writers were too afraid to push to its actually interesting conclusion, but not half-assed enough to not piss everyone off.

SL was bad from start to finish in a predictable, even standard way, with all its worst elements frontloaded and obvious. BFA on the other hand grew exponentially worse and therefore more entertaining with each patch.

That's fair, I won't contest that. Sondrelk described my mentality where it's hard for me to split both of them apart given how limply BfA ends and tells you to go buy SL to see what happens next. It's all the post-Metzen, post-Neilson, post-Kosak stuff.

If DF does end up going with a non-conclusion where most of its story beats just sort of end with no fanfare or last second weak subversions, I think we just have to accept this is how Danuser the master does things.

[Sondrelk]

That's about right, I think. I'd frame it as that Battle for Azeroth had the benefit of being far more extravagant in how awful it was, while Shadowlands was just a plain slog. It's the difference between, say, The Room and Sia's Music in terms of awfulness. While the former is worse on most levels, it can be enjoyed without leaving a bad taste in your mouth, while the latter is just unpleasant to watch altogether. Plus, the tribalistic nature of BfA's execution meant there was more room for investment: there's a reason for you to care about what happens there, and a connection that allows the entertainment to reach its fullest form, while Shadowlands was completely disconnected from anything anybody had any reason to pay attention to.

I would argue that what made BfA truly awful was how far it fell.
That expansion had everything going for it. One of the most effective openings. A strong visual theme with the ships. Interesting areas that players were excited for with Kul Tiras and Zandalar.
SL meanwhile was never that interesting to start with. Sure you had the actual shadowlands which were mildly interesting to start with, but the Jailer wasn't an interesting villain. And Sylvanas was already so schizophrenic in writing coming from BfA that the best the writers could have done is not show her at all, and just let her die with some dignity remaining.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

That was my takeaway too.

The circular scheme concludes right here,
Where the white-and-gold crosses red and black;
From the countless fallen realms of tears,
The countless horrors, soulful slack.

The crown-on-corpse and corpse bride reign,
In the pocket of the Light for victory;
Morton's Fork and the gleaming gain.
Part of all we are, and all we see.

[Cheezits]

Well, DF and SL both have the problem of being disconnected from Azeroth races and factions, it's only now that we got a patch about a Faction (Nelves and their buddies) doing something Important that Matters and will have Lasting Influence (Amirdrassil/Darnassus 2??).

Like, cool that the dragons are getting their eyes back. But does it matter? Will we ever see them again?

At least we got Amirdrassil. SL couldn't even do that. The only thing that mattered was the Lordaeron bonus quest at the end of the expansion.

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If that's the case, i wonder what happened to boy that they pretended was Calias child then.

Why push a lie when you have the actual heir already in your leadership?

Maybe two kids for extra shenanigans? Or the kid isn't character relevant and they just need to pretend he's a Menethil because politics/there is no male heir.

But Calias kid being teased but not relevant to the heritage made me think it's going to be dealt with in a Revamp or Warlords of Lordaeron.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I would argue that what made BfA truly awful was how far it fell.
That expansion had everything going for it. One of the most effective openings. A strong visual theme with the ships. Interesting areas that players were excited for with Kul Tiras and Zandalar.
SL meanwhile was never that interesting to start with. Sure you had the actual shadowlands which were mildly interesting to start with, but the Jailer wasn't an interesting villain. And Sylvanas was already so schizophrenic in writing coming from BfA that the best the writers could have done is not show her at all, and just let her die with some dignity remaining.

That's actually an excellent point. BfA was sincerely one of my favorite premises for an expansion: everything about it in concept built towards success, with a strong precedent in the lore and the inherent benefit that emerges from a mindset of fictional factionalism. In its execution, however, it simply failed to deliver while still being able to ride just enough on the premise to keep people relatively invested; I definitely cared much less once we got on to N'Zoth. Shadowlands was effectively doomed on merit of its premise alone, which was alienating enough just for involving Sylvanas at that juncture, much less ushering into existence the First Ones and all that other dross.

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Maybe two kids for extra shenanigans? Or the kid isn't character relevant and they just need to pretend he's a Menethil because politics/there is no male heir.

But Calias kid being teased but not relevant to the heritage made me think it's going to be dealt with in a Revamp or Warlords of Lordaeron.

Perhaps she was being raised as a male for whatever reason, maybe for the deliberate purpose of hiding in plain sight by making it seem like they were just a kooky reactionary cult until such a time came as they could reveal they really did have the heir to Lordaeron? Alternatively, maybe they wanted to raise her as a male because Lordaeroni leaders have historically been male and it's only after she managed to consolidate enough power in the Scarlet Crusade that she was able to gain more autonomy?

[Super Dickmann]

Don't overthink the Calia kid thing, it, plus Calia's very limited presence and Derek's zero speaking lines are down to Blizzard complying with the rightful bitching against turning the Forsaken story into Calia's shilling tour. Her kid doesn't appear despite the datamined information for the same reason 8.2.5's Forsaken story is functionally retconned.

[Cheezits]

Perhaps she was being raised as a male for whatever reason, maybe for the deliberate purpose of hiding in plain sight by making it seem like they were just a kooky reactionary cult until such a time came as they could reveal they really did have the heir to Lordaeron? Alternatively, maybe they wanted to raise her as a male because Lordaeroni leaders have historically been male and it's only after she managed to consolidate enough power in the Scarlet Crusade that she was able to gain more autonomy?

Maybe we're looking at it wrong, and Calias kid is grown up and has a kid of her own. That would make him the Menethil heir while she's some kind of general/commander.

I honestly don't know how old Calia is/how old her child would be so this may be entirely off.

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Don't overthink the Calia kid thing, it, plus Calia's very limited presence and Derek's zero speaking lines are down to Blizzard complying with the rightful bitching against turning the Forsaken story into Calia's shilling tour. Her kid doesn't appear despite the datamined information for the same reason 8.2.5's Forsaken story is functionally retconned.

I think it will happen. It serves the dual purpose of giving Forsaken something to do in a revamp (fight Scarlets) and make it spicy (fight Scarlets related to Arthas) while making Calia suffer and maybe "earn her stripes" in the Horde (kill her own child to save the Forsaken).

The fact this plotline was hinted the second she joined the Horde is telling IMO.

Derek doing nothing is very funny but I'm guessing he will be the Boat Guy so because there were no Boats he's pointless.

[Lady Atia]

C'thun being revived by the Azerite shower he got, and he decides that the sword is the best stronghold for his body this time, so he starts burrowing inside it instead of the planet, with his big eye being where the big "energy ball" was before. Basically, the sword itself becomes a monument to him, where he watches over his new city/empire.

Imagine all of Silithus and Ahn'qiraj being reworked into one large, spiraling temple city, with the sword at its center and C'thun living in it, watching over it all. Now that would make an OG feel like a big deal again, just by a visual point of view, and actually give a feel of "constantly being watched" while playing there - because you actually are being watched.
Would be a pretty sick endgame zone imho in the spirit of Suramar: you fight yourself through the outer reaches of the city while leveling, and then the inner core+sword are a raid.
And it would be a little callback to both the swords original design (where an eye was at that spot instead of an energy orb) and the old, deleted Cata questline which was supposed to end with C'thuns gigantic eye floating over Silithus.



Granted, it would be veeeeeery similar to Sauron in the LotR movies lawl, but...basically everything Blizzard does is ripped from somewhere, so might as well go all out with it.

That's actually a good idea - they could even use dragonriding as a mechanic similiar to the new raid there!

[Raetary]

Maybe we're looking at it wrong, and Calias kid is grown up and has a kid of her own. That would make him the Menethil heir while she's some kind of general/commander.

I honestly don't know how old Calia is/how old her child would be so this may be entirely off.

Her daughter was still an infant when they got seperated, third war happened 20 years ago, so she is between 18-20 years old.

A menethil grandchild ain't happening unless they plan on canonizing a teenage pregnancy.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Her daughter was still an infant when they got seperated, third war happened 18 years ago, so she is between 18-20 years old.

A menethil grandchild ain't happening unless they plan on canonizing a teenage pregnancy.

To give a more specific timeframe, we got the Scarlet pamphlets around BfA. That would mean she would be in the ballpark of 17 at the oldest during that time: Reign of Chaos began in year 20 and BfA ended in year 35. Definitely agree that CDev isn't going to go that way.

[Cheezits]

We got the Scarlet pamphlets around BfA IIRC, so that would mean she would be in the ballpark of 17 at the oldest during that time,—Reign of Chaos was in year 20 and BfA ended in year 35,—likely too young to have given the Scarlets a heir.

Okay yeah, so the kid is a fake heir or the quest designer forgot the details of her kid.

Or time travel. Or he's Nathrezim. Or she's pretending to be a boy and the unseen commander is someone else.