The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Cheezits]

Yeah Blizzards aversion to just outright doing subraces is one I don’t understand.

I don’t see why we can’t have our normal character creation screen then say underneath Dwarves you have the option to select Bronzebeard, Wildhammer, Dark Irons and Frostborn and then you spawn in say Aerie Peak if you choose Wildhammer with just the one quest saying “Our Bronzebeard allies need help, answer the call” with a gryphon sending you directly to Dun Morogh - granted if you aren’t doing the new standard intro for new characters.

Because they don't think enough people care to bother putting dev time in, and they are probably right.

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BTW, saw this leak on youtube, might be interesting to some people here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKHIY2DXynk

[Luck4]

BTW, saw this leak on youtube, might be interesting to some people here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKHIY2DXynk

Wrath of the Bolvar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shadowlands

[Xilurm]

I'd like if the expansion name isn't one word again.

[Auxis]

Why?

We already have pre-established worlds that are rooted in chaos and fel. No need to piss the player base off by introducing a brand new planet when we already have several to use. The pantheon of chaos can reside in their own little chaotic dimension that we’d no doubt visit in patch/raid content.

Yes, because wasting the entire potential of a mysterious world on a single raid/patch has gone down SO well in the past (*cough* Emerald Dream/Argus *cough*).

Disorder has the potential to be like Hellfire Penninsula, Netherstorm, and SMV but on WHOLE 'nother level, but by all means just use it for A patch.

[Teriz]

Remember when you said others were twisting things to fit their ideas...

Where’s the twisting? Thrall is a shaman and deeply involved with the elements. The Mag’har would be the main targets of the Lightbound, since they know better than anyone what level of threat they pose. Thrall will want to protect the Mag’har from the Lightbound, and the elements of Azeroth make a good opposing force to an alien invasion.

[huth]

Yes, because wasting the entire potential of a mysterious world on a single raid/patch has gone down SO well in the past (*cough* Emerald Dream/Argus *cough*).

Disorder has the potential to be like Hellfire Penninsula, Netherstorm, and SMV but on WHOLE 'nother level, but by all means just use it for A patch.

An entire expansion of nothing but burned wastes? No, thanks.

[Hitei]

Where’s the twisting? Thrall is a shaman and deeply involved with the elements. The Mag’har would be the main targets of the Lightbound, since they know better than anyone what level of threat they pose. Thrall will want to protect the Mag’har from the Lightbound, and the elements of Azeroth make a good opposing force to an alien invasion.

Why would the Lightbound's main target be like 15 random orc refugees of zero note or influence, who have absolutely no ability to contest the Lightbound and whose only experience with them is getting chased off. I doubt Yrel even remembers they exist and if the Lightbound are invading Azeroth, they sure as shit aren't gonna be worried about a handful of regular orcs they've already defeated an entire continent of.

You might as well pretend Azshara is coming back specifically to finish off the Ankoan, or that Deathwing's primary concern was the handful of Bilgewater survivors that escaped Kezan.

[Polybius]

Spoilers for the secret event ending, mildly suspicious to see all those things mingled.

Also this dialogue suggests they were working for the Incarnates. Hmm!

More bonus dialog:

Preservationist Kathos
https://marlamin.com/u/Wow_cC1jUqhdTK.png
https://marlamin.com/u/FoGMh03dEl.png
https://marlamin.com/u/Wow_fXEML7GLT6.png
https://marlamin.com/u/Wow_EXhvkEsthQ.png

Bobby
https://marlamin.com/u/Wow_Cf4LxS1dRH.png
https://marlamin.com/u/Wow_lx4nHOHCen.png
https://marlamin.com/u/Wow_ntjnr5hsA8.png
https://marlamin.com/u/Hp4mkjpDiB.png
https://marlamin.com/u/Wow_bqQQtx1Lek.png

About the artifact, it sounds like the one confiscated from the Black Empire by Hooktail in Tazavesh. If I recall it was a relic of the First Ones.

Off topic Tinfoil hat: I know their lore has bad reception, but they're likely going to be retconned as alien beings that came before the Titans - space shamans who played around with cosmic forces around them. They probably tried to skip the World Soul process and supervolved into Gods/Titans only for it to backfire. Not very different from the Eldan from Wildstar who mysteriously disappeared after creating Drusera/The Entity. They too, like the Titans, had predecessors above them.

[Santandame]

Yes, because wasting the entire potential of a mysterious world on a single raid/patch has gone down SO well in the past (*cough* Emerald Dream/Argus *cough*).

Disorder has the potential to be like Hellfire Penninsula, Netherstorm, and SMV but on WHOLE 'nother level, but by all means just use it for A patch.

Emerald Dream/Argus were pre-established, iconic Warcraft locations in lore. That’s a pretty inept comparison.

We don’t even have a name for the realm of Disorder. If we’re doing another Burning Legion themed expansion and you set it on some random chaos aligned planet no one’s ever heard of instead of somewhere like Narhreza that’s a pretty important lore location then that’s just Blizzard missing the mark completely.

Also as @huth said, no one wants an expansion of dead zones based on nothing but wastes and fel. Nathreza is said to have lots of cities of different variety and was the home of the Legion’s arcane power. You can also bet it would have a lot of Venthyr/Revendreth inspiration too. It’s a fitting setting for a Chaos expansion in plenty of ways.

[Teriz]

Why would the Lightbound's main target be like 15 random orc refugees of zero note or influence, who have absolutely no ability to contest the Lightbound and whose only experience with them is getting chased off. I doubt Yrel even remembers they exist and if the Lightbound are invading Azeroth, they sure as shit aren't gonna be worried about a handful of regular orcs they've already defeated an entire continent of.

Except that the Mag'har are now aligned with the Horde and are intertwined into Thrall's family, so yes they do have influence. Further, Yrel's goals are always conversion first and conquest second. It's not difficult to see Yrel viewing the Mag'har as the ones that got away and will likely seek to convert them first and foremost and then move to convert the rest of Azeroth immediately afterward. And like I said in my original post, it is the Mag'har that know the Lightbound better than any other race on Azeroth, which also makes them a prime target.

You might as well pretend Azshara is coming back specifically to finish off the Ankoan, or that Deathwing's primary concern was the handful of Bilgewater survivors that escaped Kezan.

Yrel is not that type of villain.

[Polybius]

I never understood the need to retcon the Progenitors. Their lore has such little relevance to the Cosmic Forces and their rivalry, it's funny y'all think they matter beyond the Zereth's and the outside force.

They're tied to the Shadowlands and the device used by Zovaal. They created Denathrius, and indirectly the dreadlords, who play a role in dividing and conquering forces across worlds.

[Santandame]

Except that the Mag'har are now aligned with the Horde and are intertwined into Thrall's family, so yes they do have influence. Further, Yrel's goals are always conversion first and conquest second. It's not difficult to see Yrel viewing the Mag'har as the ones that got away and will likely seek to convert them first and foremost and then move to convert the rest of Azeroth immediately afterward. And like I said in my original post, it is the Mag'har that know the Lightbound better than any other race on Azeroth, which also makes them a prime target.



Yrel is not that type of villain.

You are making some huge sweeping assumptions about Yrel as a villain because we only saw her as a villain for about 30 seconds of screen time total. You don’t know what kind of villain she is, none of us do. So you can’t say with the certainty that you are; what kind of villain she is and what her motivation would be.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

it is the Mag'har that know the Lightbound better than any other race on Azeroth, which also makes them a prime target.

The light forged spent ten thousand years fighting the legion, there's no way the Mag'har would know more about the alt goats then them in the 30 or so year gap from the end of wod.

[Santandame]

Yes, but they're only ever mentioned and utilized for that plot specifically, and narratively, that's due to Zovaal's millennia spanning plan of fucking with the Forces so he could try and remake reality.

Outside of that, and outside of them seemingly creating the Cosmology entire, the Progenitors themselves have no massive impact on the Cosmic Rivalries, and they only seem to take part in the lore after long periods of build up or so.

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Who said we need to go to a planet? I'm saying let's go DEEP into the Nether, like beyond Fel Worlds or so. I wanna see layers of chaos, I wanna see planes of the Nether we've never seen prior.

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If the Nether is gonna take from the Warp, I'd rather they embrace it. Give us infinitely expanding layers of existence which transcend eachother on an unquantifiable scale. Make everything chaotic asf.

Eh, no thanks. You’re pretty much proposing Shadowlands but chaos themed instead of death. It’ll just alienate the player base.

I don’t see the issue with just doing Nathreza. It’s an iconic Warcraft location that would be fitting of a Legion/Chaos themed expansion. Especially when you know Denathrius is going to be the primary villain or a major character at the least.

We can explore the cosmic realm of Chaos in a patch, it doesn’t really warrant anymore than that.

[Polybius]

Yes, but they're only ever mentioned and utilized for that plot specifically, and narratively, that's due to Zovaal's millennia spanning plan of fucking with the Forces so he could try and remake reality.

Outside of that, and outside of them seemingly creating the Cosmology entire, the Progenitors themselves have no massive impact on the Cosmic Rivalries, and they only seem to take part in the lore after long periods of build up or so.

I guess what I'm trying to say in the original post is their artifacts have been found. It's too reminiscent of what happened in Tazavesh. The text describes the chest as originating before Sargeras, with the cypher combining languages from beings of Order, Disorder, and Void. Of the currently established beings, the Progenitors are the only ones who found some kind of harmony between these elements.

I only added tinfoil hat bit because I think they tried to artificially imitate or perfect the creation of a Pantheon, whereas our current Titans are naturally formed from World Souls. I don't know how the First Ones will be written ages from now, if they truly created everything to reach a harmony against an outside force or if they're simply advanced beings with high organizational thinking.

[Teriz]

You are making some huge sweeping assumptions about Yrel as a villain because we only saw her as a villain for about 30 seconds of screen time total. You don’t know what kind of villain she is, none of us do. So you can’t say with the certainty that you are; what kind of villain she is and what her motivation would be.

Uh it's literally explained in the scenario. The Mag'har themselves state that Yrel forcibly converted people to their cause if they didn't willingly join their ranks. The Ogres pretty much give up and willingly join the Lightbound because they know they can't beat them. Yrel herself shows up and offers the Mag'har one last chance to convert. So yeah, we have multiple instances to see what type of villain she is. She isn't just swooping in and burning everything to the ground with no rhyme or reason like Deathwing did, so clearly she isn't the same type of villain.

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The light forged spent ten thousand years fighting the legion, there's no way the Mag'har would know more about the alt goats then them in the 30 or so year gap from the end of wod.

The Lightforged isn't the same as the Lightbound. You're talking about two completely different Draenei groups with completely different motivations. Heck, they're not even from the same timeline/universe.

[Polybius]

Eh, no thanks. You’re pretty much proposing Shadowlands but chaos themed instead of death. It’ll just alienate the player base.

I don’t see the issue with just doing Nathreza. It’s an iconic Warcraft location that would be fitting of a Legion/Chaos themed expansion. Especially when you know Denathrius is going to be the primary villain or a major character at the least.

We can explore the cosmic realm of Chaos in a patch, it doesn’t really warrant anymore than that.

So far the cosmic chart only shows symmetry and alignment with worlds. Hence Azeroth being the center and other worlds orbiting around it. I feel its been blown out of proportion by literal interpretations when it's purely metaphysical.

[Gloriandus]

paladins and priests
titans now believe they must reorder cosmos
illidan escapes, starts events of story, dies
world revamp is tied to reordering

[Santandame]

Uh it's literally explained in the scenario. The Mag'har themselves state that Yrel forcibly converted people to their cause if they didn't willingly join their ranks. The Ogres pretty much give up and willingly join the Lightbound because they know they can't beat them. Yrel herself shows up and offers the Mag'har one last chance to convert. So yeah, we have multiple instances to see what type of villain she is. She isn't just swooping in and burning everything to the ground with no rhyme or reason like Deathwing did, so clearly she isn't the same type of villain.

There is nothing to indicate that she would cross time and space to hunt down a small group of Orcs who refused to convert to her religion. It’s not as if it’s a similar deal with the Legion and the Draenei either, which was due to Kil’jaeden’s obsessive vendetta against Velen.

Just as @Hitei said, it’s just like Azshara popping up just to wipe out the Ankoan because they opposed her once.

You’re quite literally making things up. We haven’t seen enough of Yrel as a villain to know that she would harbour either a grudge against or have an obsession with with the Mag’har.

When/if she shows up, you can bet it’s for entirely different reasons and not because the Mag’har were the ones who got away.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The Lightforged isn't the same as the Lightbound. You're talking about two completely different Draenei groups with completely different motivations. Heck, they're not even from the same timeline.

There not the same group but we know form Wod they have the same tech history and teachings prior to us showing up and the light forged had ten thousand years to learn the ins and outs of it in a war setting.

The only thing the alt goats could have that ours don’t know about is what ever the orcs in there force came up with and given that the peak of orc tech was a big iron ball that exploded it’s safe to say they aren’t going to have much of note to add.