The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Santandame]

There not the same group but we know form Wod they have the same tech history and teachings prior to us showing up and the light forged had ten thousand years to learn the ins and outs of it in a war setting.

The only thing the alt goats could have that ours don’t know about is what ever the orcs in there force came up with and given that the peak of orc tech was a big iron ball that exploded it’s safe to say they aren’t going to have much of note to add.

Also the fact that they are run by the same Naaru.

[Polybius]

i mean, considering Zereth Mortis, as well as Odyn's edicts talking about Zereth Ordus and referring to the First Ones as the "makers", I am pretty sure the idea is that the First Ones created the World Souls and launched them into the beyond from Zereth Ordus.

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The whole Cosmology is essentially a harmony of 6 forces, and it's especially hard to retcon something like this when we've already been to one of their workshops, etc.

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Besides, none of the Progenitors magics screams "shamanistic".

It was more a metaphor for the way they manipulate the cosmic forces like shamans do for elements. But you're right, their magics seem to contain more than they do employ said cosmic forces.

[Chickat]

the emeral dream should have been as big as argus (in game) to flesh out the place a bit more. right now it looks just like another forest.

Its pretty big already. Its around the same size as the Ohnarahn plains already according to some dataminers. That is one of the largest patch zones ever made.

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We need a new version of Taylor Swift for it.

Fun fact. I jever really got the Taylor Swift fascination in the past few threads but recent events have made me somewhat of a fledgling Swifty. So yes Queen lets add her.

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If there were three approaches for the visual part of World Revamp, which one would you go for?

1. Re-texturing - leaving continents basically as their are, and simply breathing a new life into them - re-texturing, changing assets 1:1 with new, high-res ones.
2. Soft Revamp - something along the lines of Cataclysm; reshaping and re-texturing the world. Giving some zones new sculpting / new terrain shape - more or less, rebuilding them.
3. Hard Revamp - basically, putting the stuff we have now to the trash can (with possibility to return to old world in some way of course) and remaking the zones from scratch, using old world as somewhat of a blueprint:
- prunning some unnecessary zones completely;
- merging 2-3 zones, into a single, large zone with different biomes (like Azure Span), which allows for the world to be more immersive and natural, especially with the introduction of Dragonriding in the old world (like fusing Trisifal Glades and both Plaguelands into a Lordaeron, or something, you get the idea);
- making zone-crossings / borders more seamless visually, so we don't go from lushy, green forest straight to barren lands within 20 yards;

I want a hard revamp but i have a feeling its going yo be somewhere in-between a soft revamp and plain on texturing. Some zones will get new quests but a lot of quests on old zones are still fine.

I think the revamp will look like Arathi and Darkshore. Not up to par with current expansions but somewhere in-between MoP and WoD graphically.

I also think there's a good chance they dont touch certain zones like Vashjir and Deepholme. I think Twilight Highlands and Uldum would get more narrative updates but very little graphical updates. Hyjal will be the most changed cata zone as it's probabky the new night elf capital.

I think its possible Tol Barad will move closer to Gilneas and be able to be flown to from there.

[Hitei]

I think the revamp will look like Arathi and Darkshore. Not up to par with current expansions but somewhere in-between MoP and WoD graphically.

I really don't feel like this works well as an expansion.

Most old zones are tiny and have large design problems especially if dynamic flying is being brought forward as something available from the get go, a refreshing like Arathi/Darkshore doesn't do much to increase their novelty or appeal as a location for a two year expansion cycle (or especially a four year single continent expansion cycle).

I don't think a soft revamp works as an expansion without the expansion also introducing large new zones like Cata did, and they already addressed on multiple occasions that the split there was a bad idea and didn't work out well.

So I feel like it's either a hard revamp or not a revamp at all. And given stuff like DF being the starter experience going forward and the fact that they bothered to update Arathi/Darkshore so recently, I still really think a revamp isn't as assured as people seem to believe.

[Teriz]

There is nothing to indicate that she would cross time and space to hunt down a small group of Orcs who refused to convert to her religion. It’s not as if it’s a similar deal with the Legion and the Draenei either, which was due to Kil’jaeden’s obsessive vendetta against Velen.

Where did I say that’s the reason she’s crossing time and space? The reason she’s crossing time and space is to build a massive army of the light. I said that when Yrel gets to Azeroth, the Mag’har are going to be prime targets, not the only target, and not the only goal.

Just as @Hitei said, it’s just like Azshara popping up just to wipe out the Ankoan because they opposed her once.

No, that’s not what I’m saying at all.

You’re quite literally making things up. We haven’t seen enough of Yrel as a villain to know that she would harbour either a grudge against or have an obsession with with the Mag’har.

Uh, she was trying to kill them and wipe out their culture. That wouldn’t change if she encounters them again on Azeroth. In fact it makes the Mag’har prime targets because Yrel already knows that they will never convert to her cause.

When/if she shows up, you can bet it’s for entirely different reasons and not because the Mag’har were the ones who got away.

Yeah, I never said she was showing up solely because of the Mag’har.

[Houle]

Reminder that the First Ones have remained an unknown variable til SL, so expect similar til we enter the next cosmic domain.

Reminder that they didnt fckn exist before SL, and thus simply couldnt have been used that much so far.
Only reason we havent seen much of them so far is bc they were introduced into the story one xpac ago. Thats no indication about how large or small their role going forward is going to be.

[Teriz]

There not the same group but we know form Wod they have the same tech history and teachings prior to us showing up and the light forged had ten thousand years to learn the ins and outs of it in a war setting.

The only thing the alt goats could have that ours don’t know about is what ever the orcs in there force came up with and given that the peak of orc tech was a big iron ball that exploded it’s safe to say they aren’t going to have much of note to add.

Uh the alt goats also have a fanatical drive to make everyone a slave to the naaru. The lightforged do not, and aren’t beholden to a malevolent naaru with clearly sinister motivations. That’s a rather fundamental difference between the two, and the Mag’har understand that better than the lightforged.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Uh the alt goats also have a fanatical drive to make everyone a slave to the naaru. The lightforged do not, and aren’t beholden to a malevolent naaru with clearly sinister motivations. That’s a rather fundamental difference between the two, and the Mag’har understand that better than the lightforged.

They were literally beholden to the same malevolent Narru with a fanatical drive to wipe out the legion or turn them to the light like they did the dread lord.

They are/were 1 to 1 the same other then the last 30 years since Wod and ten thousand years of using all the same tech with all the same teaching will always beat out 30 years of getting beat up by stuff you don’t understand.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Uh the alt goats also have a fanatical drive to make everyone a slave to the naaru. The lightforged do not, and aren’t beholden to a malevolent naaru with clearly sinister motivations. That’s a rather fundamental difference between the two, and the Mag’har understand that better than the lightforged.

As I've said before, we don't know the full story with the Lightbound. While it's likely—going off the general lack of nuance to the recent writing trend of "all sides bad, assume position for mortal wank"—that it won't be anything other than "evil Lightbound enact horrible unprovoked imperialism on the harmless babies who definitely never did imperialism", a rare and tragic submission to Watsonian analysis of Warcraft lore leaves me wondering whether or not Geya'rah is a reliable source. Keep in mind she's seemingly an admirer of Grom, who is a hyperexpansionist military warlord, and she seems possessed of a certain reactionary sentiment. It is possible that the majority of Draenor is entirely on-board with the Lightbound and that the Mag'har are just a crazy reactionary group that went rogue the moment they detected a threat to their cultural sovereignty and religious traditions in the mass conversions of certain clans.

The only thing the alt goats could have that ours don’t know about is what ever the orcs in there force came up with and given that the peak of orc tech was a big iron ball that exploded it’s safe to say they aren’t going to have much of note to add.

Honestly, I think that's an underestimation of the value of orcish technology. There's a recurring theme in Warcraft lore of younger, less advanced races learning and innovating more quickly than their more well-established peers; this was (probably accidentally) verified in WoD when the incredibly primitive orcish race managed to rapidly adapt to the introduction of industrial military technology and all the requisite advances to actually apply their new arms. While any orcish innovations won't be as impressive as the draenic contributions, I could see orcish influence leading to an alteration in the Lightbound's military doctrine and technological applications to reflect a more aggressive military ethos on the part of their orcish members. They also are under entirely different circumstances that could influence their use of technology because the Lightforged were fighting a guerilla war across the cosmos against a more powerful enemy, while the Lightbound are seemingly orienting their military focus around steamrolling resisting populations.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Honestly, I think that's an underestimation of the value of orcish technology. There's a recurring theme in Warcraft lore of younger, less advanced races learning and innovating more quickly than their more well-established peers; this was (probably accidentally) verified in WoD when the incredibly primitive orcish race managed to rapidly adapt to the introduction of industrial military technology and all the requisite advances to actually apply their new arms. While any orcish innovations won't be as impressive as the draenic contributions, I could see orcish influence leading to an alteration in the Lightbound's military doctrine and technological applications to reflect a more aggressive military ethos on the part of their orcish members. They also are under entirely different circumstances that could influence their use of technology because the Lightforged were fighting a guerilla war across the cosmos against a more powerful enemy, while the Lightbound are seemingly orienting their military focus around steamrolling resisting populations.

If blackfuse wasn’t a thing or the maghar had brought any thing other then iron stars over in bfa I might agree.

But as far as what we actually see it’s just orcs using a bunch of goblin made blueprints and tech which they apparently didn’t progress at all in the 30 year span of Wod to BFA leading to there greatest achievement still just being iron stars.

Mabye they could use goat tech to make even bigger iron stars out of crystal though.

[Worldshaper]

Regarding the title, it's worth taking a look at the ones from the past few years.

Legion

Battle for Azeroth

Shadowlands

Dragonflight

Each focuses on the strongest theme of an expansion. There has 100% been a creative meeting behind each one, in which they mapped out different words on a whiteboard in order to find the right title.

In Legion, we didn't really go anywhere iconic for the expansion proper, but remained on Azeroth. Thr villain was very iconic however, and this was the de facto Burning Legion expansion. One word probably felt snappy, and it removes any confusion with TBC.

Battle for Azeroth had a number of different themes and villains going on, as well as locations. But they framed the expansion with the Fourth War in the beginning, so focusing on that in the name makes sense. It also has a double meaning of course, since we're also fighting for Azeroth's survival.

Shadowlands might've followed Legion in its naming, except it had no clear villain. The Lich King was already gone, and the Jailer was pretty unknown. The Scourge isn't as strong a phrase as thr Burning Legion, nor was ut very active at the time. So they focused on the next most iconic thing, which is the location itself.

Dragonflight honestly has the same thing going on, and the central theme really is the flying, swooping through the air and feeling that sense of adventure and rushing adrenaline. The story itself is too vague to be used in the name, since it's still just building towards something.

Will 11.0 have any central, and iconic themes?

As far as we know, the likeliest ones are the Void, Azeroth itself (along with its potential revamp), and Thrall. Both Legion and Shadowlands captured what the enemy faction was kind of about, and focused on that. So 11.0 will likely do the same. It's meant to be a serious expansion with a big clash with the Void.

So my bet is that any names we speculate about should include the Void somehow. Not that word necessarily, but the theme.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

If blackfuse wasn’t a thing or the maghar had brought any thing other then iron stars over in bfa I might agree.

But as far as what we actually see it’s just orcs using a bunch of goblin made blueprints and tech which they apparently didn’t progress at all in the 30 year span of Wod to BFA leading to there greatest achievement still just being iron stars.

Mabye they could use goat tech to make even bigger iron stars out of crystal though.

The main counterpoint to this is that the orcs would've had to still adapt to the introduction of advanced technology into their military; it's no small feat to organize an industrialized military from the ground-up when your entire race previously had no experience with that kind of organization. They would've needed to change their logistical systems entirely—or even invent the concept of logistics systems—and figure out precisely how to develop a military doctrine that fully integrates their new artillery. It's undoubtedly unintentional on the Doylist level, but an in-universe analysis suggests that it took the entire orcish race two years to fundamentally alter their society and learn how to operate and (presumably) duplicate technology vastly beyond their capabilities at the time.

[flan1337]

how close to blizzcon did we start getting leaks? I feel like even the fake ones has been lacking this year

[Raetary]

It's pretty.

[Woggmer]

how close to blizzcon did we start getting leaks? I feel like even the fake ones has been lacking this year

I'd say around October probably.

[Luck4]

how close to blizzcon did we start getting leaks? I feel like even the fake ones has been lacking this year

I agree, but that's what we get once nearly all loose ends get addressed. It's hard to predict what's coming.

I bet leaks will be "somewhat accurate" when third-party staff get access to the new stuff, which usually happens one or two weeks before the announcement.

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Funny take: I usually avoid this thread these last couple of weeks.

I find the uncertainty more enjoyable.

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I genuinely remember their name from last time. Genuinely good fake leaks/10.

"Awakening" will be eternal "leak" joke until either the World Revamp happens or the game dies.

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Talking about leaks, someone posted this on Reddit:

https://i.imgur.com/8Zn8D7L.jpg

[Zers Editor]

Talking about leaks, someone posted this on Reddit:

https://i.imgur.com/8Zn8D7L.jpg

This one is about five years old.

[Samin]

Talking about leaks, someone posted this on Reddit:

https://i.imgur.com/8Zn8D7L.jpg

Do not cite the deep magic to me, witch. I was there when it was written.

This one is about five years old.

Oh god, I was there.

[Worldshaper]

Thought of another way to explain my theory about the expansions, and the pattern they have. Builders and Spenders (inspired by abilities in WoW).

A builder expansion build towards something. It comes with different themes and stories to tell. But there's an overarching meta-narrative working in the background.

A spender expansion is the culmination of something. It goes all-in with a specific theme, and is usually a large scale expansion with a bigger scope than the last.

Core Expansions

• The Burning Crusade
• Wrath of the Lich King
• Cataclysm
• Mists of Pandaria

Modern Expansions

• Builder - Warlords of Draenor
• Spender - Legion
• Builder - Battle for Azeroth
• Spender - Shadowlands
• Builder - Dragonflight
• Spender - 11.0

Warlords of Draenor had themes such as the Iron Horde, the Draenei and Mag'har, Ogres and Botani, and much more. But it built towards the impending return of the Burning Legion.

Battle for Azeroth had themes such the faction war, N'Zoth, the Heart of Azeroth, Azshara, and much more. But it built towards the impending return of the forces of Death.

Dragonflight has themes such as the Primalists and the Primal Incarnates, the elements, dragons and the Dragon Aspects, and much more. But it builds towards the impending return of the Void.

Legion, Shadowlands, and 11.0, meanwhile, go all in on that theme which was teased in the expansion prior.

[AlexGrem]

This one is about five years old.

don’t forget that there are always canceled parts of the game that were almost released, which for one reason or another are deleted or remade and released later