The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Well Done Steak]

I'm still betting that Dralad will be revealed before the end of DF after being named dropped in tyr's computer.

What if Tyr res'ed him and then imbued his body with holy energy after learning about how dragons essentially absorb w/e magic they're exposed to and created a Silver dragon aspect in secret for whatever reason.

Yes I know Dralad was orange but that could have changed as per his resurrection

[Cheezits]

Calling the Primalists, the expansions primary antagonistic force, filler is a wild take.

I wouldn't say so. Like the Iron Horde they are relevant for one raid and leveling, and then quickly become irrelevant and then start to switch sides with Vyranoth. They aren't even the main enemies in Azure Span.

It's pretty telling that the main enemies in 10.2 are Fyrakk and the Druids of the Flame. The INCARNATES are definitely the focal antagonists but their lackeys aren't.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Did we ever get any clarification of what the deal is with the element of Decay? I know Spirit is "misssing" from Azeroth, and that's what led to the unbalance of elements, but we know Decay exists (it is used by the Brackenhide for example) yet it is still... mostly ignored in the game? Who's the Lord of Decay? Is there some sort of Lord of Spirit?

There did seem to be a “lord” of spirit back around Rise of the horde with thrall talking to it.

Spirit of the Wilds: We are the Spirit of the Wilds, the essence and souls of all things living. We are the most powerful of all, surpassing the quakes of Earth, the winds of Air, the flames of Fire, and the floods of Water. Speak, Thrall, and tell us why you think you are worthy of our aid.

But not nothing has really happens with it since and it might be retconned away all together with shadowlands.

[Murlocos]

It's completely valid to call the Primalists filler. They have two notable characters, one of which dies in the second leveling zone and the other dies in the launch raid. The entire faction just sort of materialized out of thin air with a selling point of "we hate the Titans", which might be the least convincing and most niche motivation of any mortal antagonist faction to date. Maybe they were reading Chronicles and Wowpedia while we were in the Shadowlands and got really mad about it.

On the flip side, the Druids of the Flame get a questline that gives them some actual depth and reason to exist beyond needing baddies for the Firelands, so they can do this stuff when they choose to, I guess.

[Mecheon]

Instead of keep adding Islands how about a fresh world revamp?

Because the simple psychology that people value new stuff for spending their $60 dollaridoos on a new expansion, the fact that all of the old world zones are accessible in game right now makes them less valued as a result. Particularly when one competitor is advertising "Let's go to Mexico!" and another just released "Come to the popular World of Books and Tentacles (as see in Skyrim)". The competitors are advertising New, you're paying the type of money that could get you several copies of indie games full of New content, and the last time WoW tried this, the New content, the main draw for endgame, was absolutely at the mercy of the rest of the game being updated.

Plus, as much as there is a revamp crew, there is an anti-revamp crew (who, honestly, probably have a fair few players jaded by Cata). This thread tends to run revamp positive, but there's plenty of folks just, not excited by the prospect of a revamp.

[Cheezits]

Counterpoint: WoW is going F2P next expansion

Also the idea that most modern WoW players have not played Cata/Classic.

[Sondrelk]

It's completely valid to call the Primalists filler. They have two notable characters, one of which dies in the second leveling zone and the other dies in the launch raid. The entire faction just sort of materialized out of thin air with a selling point of "we hate the Titans", which might be the least convincing and most niche motivation of any mortal antagonist faction to date. Maybe they were reading Chronicles and Wowpedia while we were in the Shadowlands and got really mad about it.

On the flip side, the Druids of the Flame get a questline that gives them some actual depth and reason to exist beyond needing baddies for the Firelands, so they can do this stuff when they choose to, I guess.

That is s good point. We have still not been told what exactly cause Primalists to turn over to their ideology. Did they all achieve sentience and realize Dragonflight needed a standard villain type to populate the levelling zones?

[milkmustache]

That is s good point. We have still not been told what exactly cause Primalists to turn over to their ideology. Did they all achieve sentience and realize Dragonflight needed a standard villain type to populate the levelling zones?

Well.. yea. I guess you could say they're residual Twilight's Hammer, but they're far less void cultist and far more rogue shamans. Just kinda feels like a hat pull.

[Cheezits]

That is s good point. We have still not been told what exactly cause Primalists to turn over to their ideology. Did they all achieve sentience and realize Dragonflight needed a standard villain type to populate the levelling zones?

It's probably the good old "we can't tell the players until they switch sides because they will agree with them and feel bad for killing them"

Tyr will be an antagonist, THEN we find out.

The devs basically spoiled it early with the Tyrhold water reveal in the artbook.

[Super Dickmann]

I don't know what the whole villain chat is on about, the antagonists of the expansion are the Incarnates and no matter which patch ends it 2/3 raids will be Incarnates and their followers. The Primalists as a polity, in as much as they have any lore, are accessories to the Incarnates.

[micwini]

They should just have used Twilight's Hammer instead of Primalists to save themselves a headache. Especially since both groups are basically the same thing.

[Cheezits]

They should just have used Twilight's Hammer instead of Primalists to save themselves a headache. Especially since both groups are basically the same thing.

Yeah but the TH are boring and their visual style is ugly.

Also Primalists SEEM to have some good virtues while TH are kookoo crazy evil.

[Nymrohd]

Yeah but the TH are boring and their visual style is ugly.

Also Primalists SEEM to have some good virtues while TH are kookoo crazy evil.

Honestly Chronicle and WoD really elevate the Twilight Hammer so much by adding the Pale.

[micwini]

Yeah but the TH are boring and their visual style is ugly.

Also Primalists SEEM to have some good virtues while TH are kookoo crazy evil.

TH may have ugly style (subjective btw), but at least they have style. Primalist don't have any style and just feel bland. Also their reason for existing makes 0 sense. They're a very poorly explained group.

[Murlocos]

The TH aren't the best either, but at least they make sense. It's a doomsday cult that brainwashes new recruits because they themselves have had their minds warped by giant psychic flesh monsters that have burrowed into the planet. They scream about their manic visions because it's all they know.

The Primalists don't give any indication of brainwashing or coercion. No unique promises of power, nothing driving them other than "Order bad". They don't seem particularly insane, they're incensed about high level lore that could probably be dissolved with a discussion as we've seen in multiple questlines in the last patch alone. They're cardboard cutouts that don't have a reason to exist beyond cosmic forces.

The Incarnates are okay, but with Vyranoth switching sides in an instant and Iridikron dropping a vague monologue and bouncing, all we're left with is Fyrakk now.

[Cheezits]

I think part of the reason the Primalists are done in that unsatisfactory way is because they are designed for a player who knows nothing about Warcraft, like a LOT of Dragonflight (see: the lack of factions, little to no connection to the mainland, etc). It's not a great thing but I have a feeling they are meant to just be simple bad guys with some vague lore to keep the loreheads in check.

But yeah I stand by it being "they are actually kind of right and we aren't going to tell the players that until the right time"

If 10.0 directly transitions into 11.0 I can see them carrying over with more explanations and connections to the Earthen Ring.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

The Primalists don't give any indication of brainwashing or coercion. No unique promises of power, nothing driving them other than "Order bad". They don't seem particularly insane, they're incensed about high level lore that could probably be dissolved with a discussion as we've seen in multiple questlines in the last patch alone. They're cardboard cutouts that don't have a reason to exist beyond cosmic forces.

Honestly, it's pretty easy to imagine how they could've made just a bit more sense, and I do think they make a fair amount of sense if you're willing to rely on inference and give Blizzard a significant benefit of the doubt: they're effectively the cosmic equivalent to anarcho-primitivists, rejecting the order and structure the titans imposed on Azeroth. It's not difficult to see where the appeal might come from for people who live in a perpetual state of war and have been continuously subject to meddling by malevolent alien forces (e.g. the Void, the Burning Legion) to create a variant of Azeroth entirely without alien influence.

One thing I think could've helped significantly in clarifying their motives would be to limit them exclusively to a certain set of races. The first set of races would be those with a history of worshiping or at least revering elementals: Dark Iron dwarves, ogres, tauren, orcs, younger jungle trolls from after the Horde's homogenization of shamanism, and centaur. In addition, they would also include a couple night elves scarred by the loss of Teldrassil and alleging that Elune abandoned them.

Ultimately, though, I think a bit more could've been fixed by just having a good old-fashioned infiltration quest where we could actually discuss the Primalists' objectives with their members and have them lay things out a bit more clearly.

[Zaganite]

The Primalists don't give any indication of brainwashing or coercion. No unique promises of power, nothing driving them other than "Order bad". They don't seem particularly insane, they're incensed about high level lore that could probably be dissolved with a discussion as we've seen in multiple questlines in the last patch alone. They're cardboard cutouts that don't have a reason to exist beyond cosmic forces.

I think they were offered power it just wasnt explored or fleshed out prior to 10.2. In one of the campaign quests we learn that one of the NEs that Tyrande knows says they were promised their immortality back and Tyrande drops a line saying she can emphasize why so many NEs would want to work with Fyrakk considering all they've been through so it could be the case they were all promised a fix to the broken world trope caused by the Titans.

[Nymrohd]

I think they were offered power it just wasnt explored or fleshed out prior to 10.2. In one of the campaign quests we learn that one of the NEs that Tyrande knows says they were promised their immortality back and Tyrande drops a line saying she can emphasize why so many NEs would want to work with Fyrakk considering all they've been through so it could be the case they were all promised a fix to the broken world trope caused by the Titans.

Nope, that is a Druid of the Flame, not a Primalist.

[Santandame]

It's completely valid to call the Primalists filler. They have two notable characters, one of which dies in the second leveling zone and the other dies in the launch raid. The entire faction just sort of materialized out of thin air with a selling point of "we hate the Titans", which might be the least convincing and most niche motivation of any mortal antagonist faction to date. Maybe they were reading Chronicles and Wowpedia while we were in the Shadowlands and got really mad about it.

On the flip side, the Druids of the Flame get a questline that gives them some actual depth and reason to exist beyond needing baddies for the Firelands, so they can do this stuff when they choose to, I guess.

Are you joking?

They’re the focus of the first patch, are a significant story in three zones and the primary enemy of another.

If we had to rank the enemies of relevance to Dragonflight, sans the Incarnates themselves then it would be something like:

- Primalists
- Sundered Flame
- Djaradin
- Infinites
- Druid of the Flame
- Gnolls

Anyone saying that the Primalists are filler in this expansion are out of their mind. It’s much like saying the Scourge, Iron Horde, Legion etc are filler in theirs. It doesn’t matter if they aren’t fleshed out as enemies in terms of named characters. They are literally the main antagonistic force led by the expansions primary antagonists.

Wild takes.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't know what the whole villain chat is on about, the antagonists of the expansion are the Incarnates and no matter which patch ends it 2/3 raids will be Incarnates and their followers. The Primalists as a polity, in as much as they have any lore, are accessories to the Incarnates.

Absolutely. Some crazy takes in the past couple of pages. Makes me wonder if people are playing the game.