The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Ebonn]

The Dragonscale Expedition vault quests basically revealed he experimented with baby whelps and elemental powers just to see what would happen. The flashback shows a void creature taunting him that Alex will turn on him.

It's getting very likely he will be fighting us because he goes against both normal mortal values and the values of Alex and Vyranoth.

Yes I know that’s why I would love it if we faught him and why I said leading up to Dragonflight, not past it - there are also lore books in Uldaman that tell us he altered Dragonkind by soakin em in Order magic! He’s a bad!!!

[Revamp Man]

Is it possible xal is gathering forces from multiple power sources?
Like xal is void
Azshara is arcane which is order (I get she was twisted by nzoth but she still uses arcane)
Iridikron is up in the air because earth is connected to life
If she has Denathrius that's death
She's just missing light and disorder which one can assume disorder was either from the sword or a future ally
Light can be lothraxion because we know he's still a traitor


What if the first ones locked away this mystical 7th force and a key holding all of the other cosmic forces is required to release it

[Zers Editor]

If 10.2 is the last major patch, that's how it may go to fill all the needed gaps.

Vyranoth, learning of Tyr's return, demands from him to cease the Titans' grip on the dragons (infusion of Order magic). Alexstrasza (and most likely the other Aspects) takes her side. Tyr, persuaded by his Guard, agrees.

He will either leave, with his followers being allowed to remain on the Dragon Isles, or will stay with them (much less likely).

And whatever remains in 10.2.7 will be used as a buildup for 11.0.

[Woggmer]

The Dragonscale Expedition vault quests basically revealed he experimented with baby whelps and elemental powers just to see what would happen. The flashback shows a void creature taunting him that Alex will turn on him.

It's getting very likely he will be fighting us because he goes against both normal mortal values and the values of Alex and Vyranoth.

Again, I don't believe it... especially since we spent all that time trying to rebuild him and get his memory back. If all this is leads to him becoming a villain then it's going to be a very not-so-obvious twist... like EVERYONE is expecting him to turn evil and turn against us.

Heck, I would rather believe Odyn to be the one that goes after us rather than Tyr.

[Scyth]

It's possible something else happens the moment Tyr is awakened, who knows.
But based off of what we know so far I also think he won't be an ally. Him firmly believing in Order and that what he's done isn't wrong won't go down well with the Dragons, which will lead to some sort of a conflict.

[Worldshaper]

“In many ways, the titans will be the easiest to manipulate. Their singular goal is to impose structure upon everything they see. Show them a force that opposes their drive for Order, and they will be consumed by their urge to eradicate it. Their pantheon, so seemingly united in purpose, is vulnerable to fracturing.”

This one is pretty interesting right now. Basically, if anybody strays from the flock to do his or her own thing, they're the enemy.

This explains the Heretics, and it explains why Alexstrasza has always struggled to see the viewpoints of others, who do not share the Titans' vision. From Vyranoth and the other Incarnates, to the Drakonid rebels.

They're "good", but extremely inflexible and set in their ways. Anything which doesn't contribute to Order is the enemy.

That's why they wanted to order the chaotic Primal Azeroth as well as the Emerald Dream.

Now the Dragon Aspects, the Dream, and Azeroth are all slipping from their grasp.

I wonder if Tyr can make them change their views, and see a differenct perspective?

Tyr has always felt kind of independent imo. A bit like Inarius or Tyrael in Diablo. He shares the Titans' views but doesn't sit around and wait.

Vyranoth and the rebels have changed Alexstrasza, will she now convince Tyr that change is needed, and will he listen? Or will he see this as her betrayal, and turn against her?

Maybe Tyr initially lashes out but eventually comes to see our POV, and stands up to the Titans.

Titans appear, as vindictive Gods here to reclaim their "prize". The Void strikes.

[Well Done Steak]

“In many ways, the titans will be the easiest to manipulate. Their singular goal is to impose structure upon everything they see. Show them a force that opposes their drive for Order, and they will be consumed by their urge to eradicate it. Their pantheon, so seemingly united in purpose, is vulnerable to fracturing.”

This one is pretty interesting right now. Basically, if anybody strays from the flock to do his or her own thing, they're the enemy.

This explains the Heretics, and it explains why Alexstrasza has always struggled to see the viewpoints of others, who do not share the Titans' vision. From Vyranoth and the other Incarnates, to the Drakonid rebels.

They're "good", but extremely inflexible and set in their ways. Anything which doesn't contribute to Order is the enemy.

That's why they wanted to order the chaotic Primal Azeroth as well as the Emerald Dream.

Now the Dragon Aspects, the Dream, and Azeroth are all slipping from their grasp.

I wonder if Tyr can make them change their views, and see a differenct perspective?

Tyr has always felt kind of independent imo. A bit like Inarius or Tyrael in Diablo. He shares the Titans' views but doesn't sit around and wait.

Vyranoth and the rebels have changed Alexstrasza, will she now convince Tyr that change is needed, and will he listen? Or will he see this as her betrayal, and turn against her?

Maybe Tyr initially lashes out but eventually comes to see our POV, and stands up to the Titans.

Titans appear, as vindictive Gods here to reclaim their "prize". The Void strikes.

As per Iri, void strikes first, then titans come.

11.0 is void

[Worldshaper]

As per Iri, void strikes first, then titans come.

11.0 is void

I know 11.0 is Void, question is just how it all goes down, and what Tyr's role ends up being.

I doubt they'll kill the Pantheon, that feels like a weird repeat of the past, when they were essentially dead (until they weren't?).

Either way, I think 11.0 will be a banger. I love all the themes being set up, from "true Void", to Titans and Elementals, to empowered Dragon Aspects, Thrall, and all the rest.

Guessing it'll be a major conflict over Azeroth's world-soul, resulting in a revamp.

But Avaloren could be interesting here. If the Titans were to be defeated in some way, then maybe Tyr could be the a humanised representative of Order who guides us to Avaloren. Maybe these "Heretics" end up being the final hope for the Titans. The key to Azeroth's salvation?

[Nymrohd]

For me the fact that they went ahead and created the Tyr's Guard precludes Tyr being a villain. You could absolutely show a heroic backstory and still make him a villain but when you end up introducing the Guard, what is then the point? Especially when you have a class whose lore is deeply tied to Tyr.
That said he doesn't have to be a friend either. He and Vyranoth could disagree strenuously, Alex takes her side, Tyr leaves for Ulduar and returns in a later (maybe the next) expansion alongside Odyn and the other Keepers, with them splitting in two groups and taking sides and Odyn getting the Villain role (while I'd expect Tyr, Mimiron and Freya to be on the other side)

[Lorgar Aurelian]

If 10.2 is the last major patch, that's how it may go to fill all the needed gaps.

Vyranoth, learning of Tyr's return, demands from him to cease the Titans' grip on the dragons (infusion of Order magic). Alexstrasza (and most likely the other Aspects) takes her side. Tyr, persuaded by his Guard, agrees.

He will either leave, with his followers being allowed to remain on the Dragon Isles, or will stay with them (much less likely).

And whatever remains in 10.2.7 will be used as a buildup for 11.0.

Why would they demand Tyr stop infusing dragons with order magic when that hasn’t happened for ten thousand years when the dragon isle were locked away?

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Especially when you have a class whose lore is deeply tied to Tyr.

There really isn’t a deep tie to Tyr in Paladins the whole of his contribution is that, they used the legend of him as a name for there order, they found his hammer in legion.

Pally’s developed wholly independent of Tyr and it was his guards who took after them instead of the other way round.

[Hitei]

Why would they demand Tyr stop infusing dragons with order magic when that hasn’t happened for ten thousand years when the dragon isle were locked away?

I assume the current thought is that once brought back he's just going to go right back to attempting to order things, chiefly the rest of the un-ordered proto-dragons.

[Pheraz]

I think Ion was a big fan of the last patch in BFA with the corruption of uldum and that panda zone. Speculating that I think 11.0 will feature a part revamp of EK and or kalimdor maybe it's that. Revamp but uh know the void attacks and the previous new things are about to be destroyed right away!!!
But this kind of stands the opposite to the idea with the light and yrel.
Oh god or they do some weird "mortals must bring balance between light and void" and we run around with fluffy little voidlings in the end @.@

[Worldshaper]

For me the fact that they went ahead and created the Tyr's Guard precludes Tyr being a villain. You could absolutely show a heroic backstory and still make him a villain but when you end up introducing the Guard, what is then the point? Especially when you have a class whose lore is deeply tied to Tyr.
That said he doesn't have to be a friend either. He and Vyranoth could disagree strenuously, Alex takes her side, Tyr leaves for Ulduar and returns in a later (maybe the next) expansion alongside Odyn and the other Keepers, with them splitting in two groups and taking sides and Odyn getting the Villain role (while I'd expect Tyr, Mimiron and Freya to be on the other side)

Maybe!

I think we should expect a story that is epic and fairly easy to grasp, though. In part because Metzen us back, in part because they (hopefully) learned from Shadowlands, and lastly because this is a big "Spender" expansion like Legion and Shadowlands.

Their opening cinematics were quite straightforward and focused on establishing the enemy's theme very clearly.

Legion showed us Varian and Sylvanas boldly taking on the Burning Legion.

Shadowlands showed us Sylvanas toppling the Lich King and opening the way for Death. The second cinematic showed us the Jailer in a menacing way.

IIRC, Varian was featured heavily on Legion promotional material, but not the Gamescom key art. Sylvanas was featured on both for Shadowlands.

I'd imagine the 11.0 cinematic shows us Azshara returning, darkness covering Azeroth, or something to that degree, and Thrall perhaps facing the enemy, or leading us to a new land?

[Woggmer]

For me the fact that they went ahead and created the Tyr's Guard precludes Tyr being a villain. You could absolutely show a heroic backstory and still make him a villain but when you end up introducing the Guard, what is then the point? Especially when you have a class whose lore is deeply tied to Tyr.
That said he doesn't have to be a friend either. He and Vyranoth could disagree strenuously, Alex takes her side, Tyr leaves for Ulduar and returns in a later (maybe the next) expansion alongside Odyn and the other Keepers, with them splitting in two groups and taking sides and Odyn getting the Villain role (while I'd expect Tyr, Mimiron and Freya to be on the other side)

To me, I had an epiphany... Maybe the only reason Tyr even experimented and induced the Order on the dragons isn't to control, but that if he didn't then Odyn would've destroyed all the dragons from existence because they wouldn't comply.

From that memory of Tyr we see, despite it being an illusion, Tyr has complete faith in the Aspects, so he isn't willing to go nuts if they go against him like Alexstraza with Vyranoth.

[Reive]

Thank god! https://x.com/algalon_ghost/status/1...750727910?s=20

if this is indeed classic+, i wonder what are the implications for retail. classic+ would basically be a reboot of the game. will wow end up split in 2 like runescape3 and osrs?

[ImEveryCliche]

could be true bru

[Raetary]

New Moonkin customization is honestly pretty cool.
https://twitter.com/keyboardturn/sta...220354/photo/1

The new posture and animation also make it finally look like the force of nature it's supposed to be, rather than looking like a lobotomized chicken.

[Super Dickmann]

Titans who?

Also: IT'S OVER @Super Dickmann

I'm on a coping dialysis machine. Surely, they're empowered before the end patch because they have to actually get to use their powers. THey won't do a Firelands rerun without Dragon Soul 2.0 and punt the end boss, Deathwing 2.0, to the next expansion. They won't waste the good will of their content cadence up to this point by having a year-long lobby.

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For me the fact that they went ahead and created the Tyr's Guard precludes Tyr being a villain. You could absolutely show a heroic backstory and still make him a villain but when you end up introducing the Guard, what is then the point? Especially when you have a class whose lore is deeply tied to Tyr.
That said he doesn't have to be a friend either. He and Vyranoth could disagree strenuously, Alex takes her side, Tyr leaves for Ulduar and returns in a later (maybe the next) expansion alongside Odyn and the other Keepers, with them splitting in two groups and taking sides and Odyn getting the Villain role (while I'd expect Tyr, Mimiron and Freya to be on the other side)

The speculation about Tyr being a baddie I don't buy for a moment. Not just because he's been framed endlessly as a positive character with the negative aspects of the Titans punted off to other characters (chiefly Odyn, who's haunt we attack in 10.2), but more importantly because especially in DF, there's no personal loss, physical injury, milennia-old grudge or fundamnetal disagreement in ideas that can't be resolved by shaking hands and agreeing to settle on a limp middle ground. Happened to Vyranoth, happened to the Infinites, will happen to Tyr, if that.

[Sondrelk]

I'm on a coping dialysis machine. Surely, they're empowered before the end patch because they have to actually get to use their powers. THey won't do a Firelands rerun without Dragon Soul 2.0 and punt the end boss, Deathwing 2.0, to the next expansion. They won't waste the good will of their content cadence up to this point by having a year-long lobby.

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The speculation about Tyr being a baddie I don't buy for a moment. Not just because he's been framed endlessly as a positive character with the negative aspects of the Titans punted off to other characters (chiefly Odyn, who's haunt we attack in 10.2), but more importantly because especially in DF, there's no personal loss, physical injury, milennia-old grudge or fundamnetal disagreement in ideas that can't be resolved by shaking hands and agreeing to settle on a limp middle ground. Happened to Vyranoth, happened to the Infinites, will happen to Tyr, if that.

I still think Tyr will be the baddie. Not because I'm not cynical about the storytelling chops of big storylines like these, but because it's a basic storytelling trope. Abdi f we can't trust basic storytelling then what can we trust?
Tyr being revived doesn't do anything for the plot beyond him being resurrected, so what is the point of spending so much time on it if he isn't actually going to do anything?

[Super Dickmann]

I still think Tyr will be the baddie. Not because I'm not cynical about the storytelling chops of big storylines like these, but because it's a basic storytelling trope. Abdi f we can't trust basic storytelling then what can we trust?
Tyr being revived doesn't do anything for the plot beyond him being resurrected, so what is the point of spending so much time on it if he isn't actually going to do anything?

Laughs in Bolvar. Also, it's pretty obvious that from a storytelling perspective the real Tyr is the friends we made along the way. The point of the quest is that after all this time spent trying to get him back up so he can empower and guide the aspects he'll pop up after they've already gone on their separate flight arcs (except Alex lol) and have been empowered by their collective efforts guarding the tree and go "Wow, you've grown so much more without my guidance, this is why I put you in charge and didn't leave it to robots like Odyn".