The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nymrohd]

I still think Tyr will be the baddie. Not because I'm not cynical about the storytelling chops of big storylines like these, but because it's a basic storytelling trope. Abdi f we can't trust basic storytelling then what can we trust?
Tyr being revived doesn't do anything for the plot beyond him being resurrected, so what is the point of spending so much time on it if he isn't actually going to do anything?

I mean, I am sure several people have explained what reviving Tyr does. It allows him to explain to the Aspects how to become Aspects again (that was how the expansion started after all) and it allows for Tyr to lead into a new arc related to Uldaz which should appear during this expansion (cause otherwise why the Hammer?)
But I don't expect to convince you cause you are married to that plot by this point.

[Super Dickmann]

I mean, I am sure several people have explained what reviving Tyr does. It allows him to explain to the Aspects how to become Aspects again (that was how the expansion started after all) and it allows for Tyr to lead into a new arc related to Uldaz which should appear during this expansion (cause otherwise why the Hammer?)

This is another point to bring home, bringing back Tyr as a prominent keeper gives a direct Titan representative for Iridikron to bounce off and a pivot from titans as B plot in a dragon expansion to dragons as a B plot to titans for the next expansion patch.

[Sondrelk]

Laughs in Bolvar. Also, it's pretty obvious that from a storytelling perspective the real Tyr is the friends we made along the way. The point of the quest is that after all this time spent trying to get him back up so he can empower and guide the aspects he'll pop up after they've already gone on their separate flight arcs (except Alex lol) and have been empowered by their collective efforts guarding the tree and go "Wow, you've grown so much more without my guidance, this is why I put you in charge and didn't leave it to robots like Odyn".

Can you imagine how boring that will be? All the foreshadowing thrown into the trash, and all the time spent on learning about Tyrs shady activities wasting away into nothing.

The possibility of no 10.3 is really throwing a wrench into the big questions surrounding DF.
I guess the only question is if it's a worse storytelling flub than BfA. Which is worse, an unfinished plot because the expansion ended, or an unfinished plot because the main villain left and we are stuck with a different plot for the finale?

[Nymrohd]

Can you imagine how boring that will be?

Nothing more boring than subverting expectation just so you can subvert expectations.

[Santandame]

Is it possible xal is gathering forces from multiple power sources?
Like xal is void
Azshara is arcane which is order (I get she was twisted by nzoth but she still uses arcane)
Iridikron is up in the air because earth is connected to life
If she has Denathrius that's death
She's just missing light and disorder which one can assume disorder was either from the sword or a future ally
Light can be lothraxion because we know he's still a traitor


What if the first ones locked away this mystical 7th force and a key holding all of the other cosmic forces is required to release it

Oh man, I really hope they don’t waste Denathrius and Azshara in a Sinister Six styled expansion. Both have the legs to be mult expansion spanning villains as well as the potential for our first enemy turned reluctant ally before they inevitably turn on us again, in the expansion’s Khadgar/Bolvar/Magni/Illidan/Alex role.

[Sondrelk]

Nothing more boring than subverting expectation just so you can subvert expectations.

"Haha, you thought this was going to lead somewhere, but in truth we have subverted your expectations! This plotpoint is actually entirely pointless and has not moved the plot at all!"

[Xilurm]

I imagine Tyr's activities and whatever Alexstrasza feels about them is Blizzard's new way of telling a story in a not so "black and white" way. And hopefully not because they want to go like:

Tyr: "I AM EVUL NOW! MWAHAHAHAHA...HA...HA..."

[Nymrohd]

This is another point to bring home, bringing back Tyr as a prominent keeper gives a direct Titan representative for Iridikron to bounce off and a pivot from titans as B plot in a dragon expansion to dragons as a B plot to titans for the next expansion patch.

On whether it has to be a patch I will say this
Not all major plot points need to be revealed in a raid.
WoW has done this forever. Until it stopped. The major plot of the 10.1.X cycle was not Aberrus but rather Dawn of the Infinite. The real impactful story of the patch was saving Nozdormu and finding out what Iridikron plans (well to some extent), not Sarkareth.
So perhaps there is a major plot point that happens AFTER Amirdrassil but within the 10.2.X cycle. It could happen in a dungeon we know nothing about till now. It could happen in some new game mode like Visions they are adding in 10.2.5 that uses Uldaz. What it needs imo is to be repeatable and accessible (have an easy mode)

On why it should be repeatable; because this is a game and you should be able to get some gameplay out of the story or else what is the use of it. The genre limits the story and it will have to be shallow regardless so it should at least provide us with some action. ESO does this stupid thing where you kill gods at the end of questlines and the story absolutely works but the gameplay experience is miserable because it is part of the quest and thus it cannot have difficulties and ends up being ridiculously simple.

[Super Dickmann]

Can you imagine how boring that will be? All the foreshadowing thrown into the trash, and all the time spent on learning about Tyrs shady activities wasting away into nothing.

Yes, considerably boring. That said, the point of the questline is for the Aspects to retrace their steps and reintroduce Tyr into the MMO, and the constant delays to it as the Aspects nevertheless solve their problems of their own accord is to build up to a "The answer was in your heart all along" reveal. It's a pretty standard plot route.

As for whether it's worse than BFA in terms of plot structure, no, in as much as the plot is coherent. Things advance from Point A to Point B. If it outsources its conclusion to the next expansion then at least the steps to it have followed from each other. There's no "God of the depths in the naval expansion is fought on dry land in a volcano" tier of disconnect. There's no beats like NPCs archly talking about how the Bad Lady will burn Thunder Bluff, but it won't if they all stand together, only for the Bad Lady to never bring it up and the entire rebellion to form off-screen in a cutscene, then teleporting to the end point for another cutscene.

@Nymrohd

If it's not major content, i.e a replayable dungeon or raid, it's a cop out. Even if the plot turn comes after the raid and the raid isn't the ultimate resolution, the instance is the vehicle for it. You only need to look at BFA outsourcing its main plot beat to five quests and a fucking cinematic in an otherwise empty patch. The gameplay and reasoning of WoW means that major plot beats happen in raids. Aberrus is a good example of that. It doesn't move the Iridikron plot forward, he explicitly doesn't care about the place, but it clears the B-tier villains and is core to the conclusion of the Black Dragonflight story and Deathwing, which are mandatory aspects of a dragon expansion.

[Nymrohd]

Yes, considerably boring. That said, the point of the questline is for the Aspects to retrace their steps and reintroduce Tyr into the MMO, and the constant delays to it as the Aspects nevertheless solve their problems of their own accord is to build up to a "The answer was in your heart all along" reveal. It's a pretty standard plot route.

As for whether it's worse than BFA in terms of plot structure, no, in as much as the plot is coherent. Things advance from Point A to Point B. If it outsources its conclusion to the next expansion then at least the steps to it have followed from each other. There's no "God of the depths in the naval expansion is fought on dry land in a volcano" tier of disconnect.
@Nymrohd

If it's not major content, i.e a replayable dungeon or raid, then it remains a cop out. See also BFA outsourcing its main plot beat to five quests and a fucking cinematic in an otherwise empty patch. The gameplay and reasoning of WoW means that major plot beats happen in raids. Aberrus is a good example of that. It doesn't move the Iridikron plot forward, he explicitly doesn't care about the place, but it clears the B-tier villains and is core to the conclusion of the Black Dragonflight story and Deathwing, which are mandatory aspects of a dragon expansion.

I could see it being a dungeon but the thing is, would it only enter M+ for the fate season? seems weird. Maybe a mini-raid.
I will always want for them to create a new game mode that works solo or small group. They have done so many experiments in this format with Islands, Visions and Torghast and I just hope they can take all they learned from those and add something new. In the same way that M+ changed the way the game is played, instanced, repeatable, challenging and rewarding content that is available solo or for small groups is the next step. And if they are working for it for 11.0, they probably can demo it in 10.2.5

I think Iridikron's plot can be resolved later and that is not a problem. They told us what he is planning and we will find out when the Harbinger is close to getting that done because Magni will pop up and tell us. Could be now, could be in the next xpac, could be even later.

And I will always dream of BfA ending in Siege of Stormwind with both factions joining up to fight N'zoth at the Stormwind Docks.

[Sondrelk]

I could see it being a dungeon but the thing is, would it only enter M+ for the fate season? seems weird. Maybe a mini-raid.
I will always want for them to create a new game mode that works solo or small group. They have done so many experiments in this format with Islands, Visions and Torghast and I just hope they can take all they learned from those and add something new. In the same way that M+ changed the way the game is played, instanced, repeatable, challenging and rewarding content that is available solo or for small groups is the next step. And if they are working for it for 11.0, they probably can demo it in 10.2.5

I think Iridikron's plot can be resolved later and that is not a problem. They told us what he is planning and we will find out when the Harbinger is close to getting that done because Magni will pop up and tell us. Could be now, could be in the next xpac, could be even later.

And I will always dream of BfA ending in Siege of Stormwind with both factions joining up to fight N'zoth at the Stormwind Docks.

I think a mini-raid would be more likely than a dungeon, simply for the reasons of it being difficult to put into M+.


Personally I always dreamt of BfA ending in either Teldrassil or Stormwind. Teldrassil because Sylvanas could plan to resurrect all the dead Nelves to bolster her army (I even wrote a mockup for this raid way back). Stormwind because Sylvanas would make good on her promise to attack Stormwind for the Horde, and it would allow us to have resdure red Alliance heroes in the graveyard/cathedral, and all kinds of weird filler bosses in the Stormwind Vaults.

[Shadochi]

I think we will be getting a 10.3, 10.2 (even without context for conclusion of it) does in no way seem like an end patch for DF, and rather lackluster. I don't think they would be giving us a patch every 2 months this year just to cut out a major patch.

[Nymrohd]

I think we will be getting a 10.3, 10.2 (even without context for conclusion of it) does in no way seem like an end patch for DF, and rather lackluster. I don't think they would be giving us a patch every 2 months this year just to cut out a major patch.

It's just weird why they are so coy about confirming it will happen.

[Sondrelk]

I think we will be getting a 10.3, 10.2 (even without context for conclusion of it) does in no way seem like an end patch for DF, and rather lackluster. I don't think they would be giving us a patch every 2 months this year just to cut out a major patch.

I will definitely say that a 10.3 with a mini-raid would look much more favorable to the players than nothing, even if the taint of lacking a proper 10.3 will always hang over it.

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It's just weird why they are so coy about confirming it will happen.

Probably because promising a raid is a big commitment, and worse than not giving one is promising one that doesn't arrive.

If they are not doing one though then all kinds of bad press would spill out, and they would need a big positive announcement to drown it out, or better still overshadow it.
An expansion announcement is not enough. An expansion announcement with launch being put in late Summer is at least something. A world revamp expansion launching late summer would be enough to overshadow the lack of a proper 10.3 if they play their cards right.
None of these option can be done outside Blizzcon however, so no announcement on the lack of 10.3 can happen until then.

[Super Dickmann]

I think Iridikron's plot can be resolved later and that is not a problem. They told us what he is planning and we will find out when the Harbinger is close to getting that done because Magni will pop up and tell us. Could be now, could be in the next xpac, could be even later.

And I will always dream of BfA ending in Siege of Stormwind with both factions joining up to fight N'zoth at the Stormwind Docks.

A small raid would be a better choice. That door at the end of the re-done Uldaman seems made for it, but it doesn't seem like it'll be used and Vakthros we know is cut content for the original VoI. As for solo content, I'd not be surprised if they experimented with it. A sort of time gimmick to allow them to use the two decades of materials seemed like the most natural route to go with it and would be evergreen in updated, but they blew that chance, though the otherwise limp Infinite wrap-up could be used to justify that kind of game mode, Torghast-esque but with floors conceivably being anything.

Re: BFA, I agree with @Sondrelk at this, but with the caveat that N'zoth should come after and the raid should be a proper faction showdown, be it via mirrored end bosses, or a Dazar'alor style gimmick, and a wrap-up where N'zoth rises from the seas to kick off a committed Black Empire expansion. A burnt out husk of Teldrassil would also work, and only annoys me more retroactively seeing as how yet again the tree raid is barely on the tree.

[Nymrohd]

A small raid would be a better choice. That door at the end of the re-done Uldaman seems made for it, but it doesn't seem like it'll be used and Vakthros we know is cut content for the original VoI. As for solo content, I'd not be surprised if they experimented with it. A sort of time gimmick to allow them to use the two decades of materials seemed like the most natural route to go with it and would be evergreen in updated, but they blew that chance, though the otherwise limp Infinite wrap-up could be used to justify that kind of game mode, Torghast-esque but with floors conceivably being anything.

Re: BFA, I agree with @Sondrelk at this, but with the caveat that N'zoth should come after and the raid should be a proper faction showdown, be it via mirrored end bosses, or a Dazar'alor style gimmick, and a wrap-up where N'zoth rises from the seas to kick off a committed Black Empire expansion. A burnt out husk of Teldrassil would also work, and only annoys me more retroactively seeing as how yet again the tree raid is barely on the tree.

Yeah way I see it, BfA should have ended in a Dazar'alor style raid set in Stormwind. Step one we see how the Horde invades (3 boss wing) step 2 is Alliance defends (another 3 bosses) and then you end with N'zoth crashing the Horde's invasion. Sylvanas still yeets at the end abandoning the Horde at the docks since she got what she wanted (a lot of people dying) and we end up fighting N'zoth. Maybe Saurfang sacrifices himself or something to push him back. Next xpac, Black Empire which could be done so many different ways.

As for solo content, Cavern of Times is probably the best excuse to use for something like that. Alternatively we could just have scenarios back and work on that.

[Valysar]

Can't wait for the next week PTR build, want to see how the new mount looks like IG, we already have it but it's invisible ...

[Sondrelk]

Can't wait for the next week PTR build, want to see how the new mount looks like IG, we already have it but it's invisible ...

What mount? Is there a new mount collection mount?

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A small raid would be a better choice. That door at the end of the re-done Uldaman seems made for it, but it doesn't seem like it'll be used and Vakthros we know is cut content for the original VoI. As for solo content, I'd not be surprised if they experimented with it. A sort of time gimmick to allow them to use the two decades of materials seemed like the most natural route to go with it and would be evergreen in updated, but they blew that chance, though the otherwise limp Infinite wrap-up could be used to justify that kind of game mode, Torghast-esque but with floors conceivably being anything.

What would the new Roguelike scenario give as rewards though?
I have to wonder whether it's reasonable to design to beg in with as well. The more effort you put into it the better rewards you would have to get, which in turn means you would have to put more effort into maintaining it in future patches and expansions.

[Nymrohd]

I have to wonder whether it's reasonable to design to beg in with as well. The more effort you put into it the better rewards you would have to get, which in turn means you would have to put more effort into maintaining it in future patches and expansions.

They keep trying to make that type of content. They did the scenarios in MoP (which rewarded Valor so that gave them meaning back then) then with BfA we had Island Expeditions which were just cosmetics and Visions which rewarded very good gear but for very limited slots then we had Torghast which was originally meant to reward Vault progression, ended up being mandatory for legendaries and only in the end went for cosmetics. So they absolutely believe there is a point for that type of content to exist, they have just failed to create a good version of it so far.

Imo just make that content unlock a fourth row in the Vault and you are done with it. They already realized in 10.2 that they need to open up the Vault to more content.

[Worldshaper]

The odds of this happening are probably 1000 to 1, but I would love it if Avaloren ended up being a nation of Super Vrykul.

Children of the First Flesh.

Badass Viking Warriors armed with superior weaponry. Basically, what Odyn loves, but can't stand in this case because they deviated from the true path. They have free will.

Obviously we gain access to them as a playable race. Tattoos. Scars. Axes and swords.

Bard class of course.

Vikingesque halls.

These are the secret children of the Titans that the Keepers will have nothing to do with, and vice versa.

But Tyr knows about them, and he's about to lead us there to recruit them against the Void.