The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[AOL Instant Messenger]

That was my takeaway too.

The circular scheme concludes right here,
Where the white-and-gold crosses red and black;
From the countless fallen realms of tears,
The countless horrors, soulful slack.

The crown-on-corpse and corpse bride reign,
In the pocket of the Light for victory;
Morton's Fork and the gleaming gain.
Part of all we are, and all we see.

[Cheezits]

Well, DF and SL both have the problem of being disconnected from Azeroth races and factions, it's only now that we got a patch about a Faction (Nelves and their buddies) doing something Important that Matters and will have Lasting Influence (Amirdrassil/Darnassus 2??).

Like, cool that the dragons are getting their eyes back. But does it matter? Will we ever see them again?

At least we got Amirdrassil. SL couldn't even do that. The only thing that mattered was the Lordaeron bonus quest at the end of the expansion.

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If that's the case, i wonder what happened to boy that they pretended was Calias child then.

Why push a lie when you have the actual heir already in your leadership?

Maybe two kids for extra shenanigans? Or the kid isn't character relevant and they just need to pretend he's a Menethil because politics/there is no male heir.

But Calias kid being teased but not relevant to the heritage made me think it's going to be dealt with in a Revamp or Warlords of Lordaeron.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I would argue that what made BfA truly awful was how far it fell.
That expansion had everything going for it. One of the most effective openings. A strong visual theme with the ships. Interesting areas that players were excited for with Kul Tiras and Zandalar.
SL meanwhile was never that interesting to start with. Sure you had the actual shadowlands which were mildly interesting to start with, but the Jailer wasn't an interesting villain. And Sylvanas was already so schizophrenic in writing coming from BfA that the best the writers could have done is not show her at all, and just let her die with some dignity remaining.

That's actually an excellent point. BfA was sincerely one of my favorite premises for an expansion: everything about it in concept built towards success, with a strong precedent in the lore and the inherent benefit that emerges from a mindset of fictional factionalism. In its execution, however, it simply failed to deliver while still being able to ride just enough on the premise to keep people relatively invested; I definitely cared much less once we got on to N'Zoth. Shadowlands was effectively doomed on merit of its premise alone, which was alienating enough just for involving Sylvanas at that juncture, much less ushering into existence the First Ones and all that other dross.

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Maybe two kids for extra shenanigans? Or the kid isn't character relevant and they just need to pretend he's a Menethil because politics/there is no male heir.

But Calias kid being teased but not relevant to the heritage made me think it's going to be dealt with in a Revamp or Warlords of Lordaeron.

Perhaps she was being raised as a male for whatever reason, maybe for the deliberate purpose of hiding in plain sight by making it seem like they were just a kooky reactionary cult until such a time came as they could reveal they really did have the heir to Lordaeron? Alternatively, maybe they wanted to raise her as a male because Lordaeroni leaders have historically been male and it's only after she managed to consolidate enough power in the Scarlet Crusade that she was able to gain more autonomy?

[Super Dickmann]

Don't overthink the Calia kid thing, it, plus Calia's very limited presence and Derek's zero speaking lines are down to Blizzard complying with the rightful bitching against turning the Forsaken story into Calia's shilling tour. Her kid doesn't appear despite the datamined information for the same reason 8.2.5's Forsaken story is functionally retconned.

[Cheezits]

Perhaps she was being raised as a male for whatever reason, maybe for the deliberate purpose of hiding in plain sight by making it seem like they were just a kooky reactionary cult until such a time came as they could reveal they really did have the heir to Lordaeron? Alternatively, maybe they wanted to raise her as a male because Lordaeroni leaders have historically been male and it's only after she managed to consolidate enough power in the Scarlet Crusade that she was able to gain more autonomy?

Maybe we're looking at it wrong, and Calias kid is grown up and has a kid of her own. That would make him the Menethil heir while she's some kind of general/commander.

I honestly don't know how old Calia is/how old her child would be so this may be entirely off.

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Don't overthink the Calia kid thing, it, plus Calia's very limited presence and Derek's zero speaking lines are down to Blizzard complying with the rightful bitching against turning the Forsaken story into Calia's shilling tour. Her kid doesn't appear despite the datamined information for the same reason 8.2.5's Forsaken story is functionally retconned.

I think it will happen. It serves the dual purpose of giving Forsaken something to do in a revamp (fight Scarlets) and make it spicy (fight Scarlets related to Arthas) while making Calia suffer and maybe "earn her stripes" in the Horde (kill her own child to save the Forsaken).

The fact this plotline was hinted the second she joined the Horde is telling IMO.

Derek doing nothing is very funny but I'm guessing he will be the Boat Guy so because there were no Boats he's pointless.

[Lady Atia]

C'thun being revived by the Azerite shower he got, and he decides that the sword is the best stronghold for his body this time, so he starts burrowing inside it instead of the planet, with his big eye being where the big "energy ball" was before. Basically, the sword itself becomes a monument to him, where he watches over his new city/empire.

Imagine all of Silithus and Ahn'qiraj being reworked into one large, spiraling temple city, with the sword at its center and C'thun living in it, watching over it all. Now that would make an OG feel like a big deal again, just by a visual point of view, and actually give a feel of "constantly being watched" while playing there - because you actually are being watched.
Would be a pretty sick endgame zone imho in the spirit of Suramar: you fight yourself through the outer reaches of the city while leveling, and then the inner core+sword are a raid.
And it would be a little callback to both the swords original design (where an eye was at that spot instead of an energy orb) and the old, deleted Cata questline which was supposed to end with C'thuns gigantic eye floating over Silithus.



Granted, it would be veeeeeery similar to Sauron in the LotR movies lawl, but...basically everything Blizzard does is ripped from somewhere, so might as well go all out with it.

That's actually a good idea - they could even use dragonriding as a mechanic similiar to the new raid there!

[Raetary]

Maybe we're looking at it wrong, and Calias kid is grown up and has a kid of her own. That would make him the Menethil heir while she's some kind of general/commander.

I honestly don't know how old Calia is/how old her child would be so this may be entirely off.

Her daughter was still an infant when they got seperated, third war happened 20 years ago, so she is between 18-20 years old.

A menethil grandchild ain't happening unless they plan on canonizing a teenage pregnancy.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Her daughter was still an infant when they got seperated, third war happened 18 years ago, so she is between 18-20 years old.

A menethil grandchild ain't happening unless they plan on canonizing a teenage pregnancy.

To give a more specific timeframe, we got the Scarlet pamphlets around BfA. That would mean she would be in the ballpark of 17 at the oldest during that time: Reign of Chaos began in year 20 and BfA ended in year 35. Definitely agree that CDev isn't going to go that way.

[Cheezits]

We got the Scarlet pamphlets around BfA IIRC, so that would mean she would be in the ballpark of 17 at the oldest during that time,—Reign of Chaos was in year 20 and BfA ended in year 35,—likely too young to have given the Scarlets a heir.

Okay yeah, so the kid is a fake heir or the quest designer forgot the details of her kid.

Or time travel. Or he's Nathrezim. Or she's pretending to be a boy and the unseen commander is someone else.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Okay yeah, so the kid is a fake heir or the quest designer forgot the details of her kid.

Or time travel. Or he's Nathrezim. Or she's pretending to be a boy and the unseen commander is someone else.

Unless Dickmann's right,—he could be, but I'm not sure of that yet,—I'm personally most inclined to stick with my theory that she was just raised as a male for political reasons and only recently consolidated enough power to drop the charade.

[Woggmer]

To give a more specific timeframe, we got the Scarlet pamphlets around BfA. That would mean she would be in the ballpark of 17 at the oldest during that time: Reign of Chaos began in year 20 and BfA ended in year 35. Definitely agree that CDev isn't going to go that way.

If the pamphlets are true, it would explain this one question I've had for a while about that questline.

How did the Scarlet Crusade occupy Fenris Isle? Last I checked, that place was under Worgen occupation with the Bloodfang Pack.... Not just in BFA from the mission tables but even in the Traveling Azeroth: Eastern Kingdom book that Shaw wrote.

The pamphlets did mention that they were planning to use Greymane as a pawn to further their agenda.. so there is one possibility that Greymane gets Gilneas back and restored with the Scarlet's help, in exchange of giving them a foothold on Fenris Isle close to Lordaeron.

[Nymrohd]

Whatever, I just hope that if a Revamp happens, Forsaken get a proper dock. They have these super cool ships and they have NO docks. I think in the older Warcraft maps, the Lordamere would flow into the sea at around Dalaran; Silverpine was effectively not there essentially so Lordaeron City could be a port. But that cannot happen for WoW so the Forsaken need a decent dock somewhere. And I'd rather Stratholme Bay goes to the Argent Dawn so I guess the only place left is Agamand Mills or Solliden Farmstead

Also always wanted for there to be a dock in Orgrimmar with the cliffs between the city and the sea breaking at some point and allow for ships to sail through creating a very protected dock.

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If the pamphlets are true, it would explain this one question I've had for a while about that questline.

How did the Scarlet Crusade occupy Fenris Isle? Last I checked, that place was under Worgen occupation with the Bloodfang Pack.... Not just in BFA from the mission tables but even in the Traveling Azeroth: Eastern Kingdom book that Shaw wrote.

The pamphlets did mention that they were planning to use Greymane as a pawn to further their agenda.. so there is one possibility that Greymane gets Gilneas back and restored with the Scarlet's help, in exchange of giving them a foothold on Fenris Isle close to Lordaeron.

That sounds like the factions being hostile to each other and we cannot have that anymore.

[Cheezits]

A revamped Lordaeron/Quel'thalas has the chance to be the coolest area in the game.

[Valkorion1337]

I dunno, discord parties can end up in disaster rather quickly.



Discord isn't region restricted, and for us the con starts at around 19/20:00.
If anything, the muricans would have it difficult as the annoucements happen in the morning to early afternoon for them.

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Can't do, the angles don't line up.

But i can make the guy whisper seductively into thralls ear.

I was playing the cowboy aaaaaahyeeeeaaaaahhhh song while I was staring at this picture and I was crying my eyes out lol

[Woggmer]

That sounds like the factions being hostile to each other and we cannot have that anymore.

Then how else did the Scarlets get Fenris Isle... because I repeat, not only did the Bloodfang Pack hold the island in occupation during BFA, but according to Shaw's account, they also kept artifacts from Shadowfang Keep in that castle.

For all we know, it was a deal that Genn made back when Sylvanas was still in charge but since Sylvanas isn't in charge anymore, he probably regrets ever making a deal with the Scarlets and wants to end it before the Forsaken find out. This is how the Alliance gets involved in fighting the Scarlet Crusade. (This way we can have the Horde fighting to keep the Forsaken around and the Alliance reason for going is to end the deal they made with Genn by killing them.)

[Cheezits]

Then how else did the Scarlets get Fenris Isle... because I repeat, not only did the Bloodfang Pack hold the island in occupation during BFA, but according to Shaw's account, they also kept artifacts from Shadowfang Keep in that castle.

For all we know, it was a deal that Genn made back when Sylvanas was still in charge but since Sylvanas isn't in charge anymore, he probably regrets ever making a deal with the Scarlets and wants to end it before the Forsaken find out. This is how the Alliance gets involved in fighting the Scarlet Crusade. (This way we can have the Horde fighting to keep the Forsaken around and the Alliance reason for going is to end the deal they made with Genn by killing them.)

Honestly I think it just means that the Worgen are back in Gilneas at this point, even if that goes against Danuser saying we would play through the reclamation.

Which waa honestly bullshit, because Gilneas sitting untouched over a five year timeskip is ridiculous.

[Pantupino]

Brings tears to my eyes, LET THE TRAIN RUN WILD!

[Raetary]

I moved Metzen to make more space.

[Sondrelk]

I moved Metzen to make more space.

Just realized, Ragnaros legs are far too chunky. Slim them down by about 50%

[Raetary]

He's gonna have toothpick legs if i made them slimmer.

I intend to cover his legs up with something once i find or someone suggests something i can paste over.