The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Makorus]

With affixes they will be 5 mechanic fights with shit overlaps.

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Affixes in general are just shit design. Their whole purpose is to make your time with the game more miserable. Sure they make dungeons harder but nobody can claim that any affix adds any enjoyment to the game.

I mean, a percentage damage/health increase doesn't add any enjoyment to the game either?

Yeah, it's supposed to make M+ different week-by-week, and it does change how you tackle certain dungeons. As much as people bitch about Sanguine, it does change how you play and what talents you take. Same with Bursting. Volcanic and Explosives puts more pressure on you to be aware of your surrroundings etc.etc.

[Sondrelk]

With affixes they will be 5 mechanic fights with shit overlaps.

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Affixes in general are just shit design. Their whole purpose is to make your time with the game more miserable. Sure they make dungeons harder but nobody can claim that any affix adds any enjoyment to the game.

I found that the better seasonal affixes added enjoyment. And i think the secret to those is that the best ones all add extra tangible power increases. Stuff like the SL season 2 affix with the Torghast powers.

Really all affixes should have some good element. Quaking dealing damage to enemies as well to encourage efficient overlapping, or explosive giving a small buff when you remove one. Stuff to make each new week exciting for all the extra stuff you can do, instead of just annoyed at what mechanics you have to play around.

Also remove the Tyrannical and Fortified affixes.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Revamped Zul'Gurub is probably a complex enough dungeon to work well for M+. It would be on the longer side given it has five dungeon bosses (ignoring all the many named elites and the archeology event/Edge of Madness bosses) but it had so many unique mechanics.

Light have mercy on a lot of players souls if it gets added to M+


Edit: I remember doing these with former guildies of mine at the time. It was rough at times but so were Cata Heroics >.>

[Nymrohd]

Light have mercy on a lot of players souls if it gets added to M+


Edit: I remember doing these with former guildies of mine at the time. It was rough at times but so were Cata Heroics >.>

While the place is huge, it's not really that heavy with trash. It would really depend on how cauldrons would work.

[Lahis]

I found that the better seasonal affixes added enjoyment. And i think the secret to those is that the best ones all add extra tangible power increases. Stuff like the SL season 2 affix with the Torghast powers.

SL 1, 2 and 4 seasonal fixes were decent since they mostly added positive things. Sure prideful hurt like hell when it spawned, but the power boost it gave was insane. SL S3 was meh, mostly just worse S2 with free CoS for all comps.

Ghuun worms were just annoying, as was Azshara and Bowsamdi. S4 was nice with the skip starts it enabled.

[Makabreska]

SL 1, 2 and 4 seasonal fixes were decent since they mostly added positive things. Sure prideful hurt like hell when it spawned, but the power boost it gave was insane. SL S3 was meh, mostly just worse S2 with free CoS for all comps.

Ghuun worms were just annoying, as was Azshara and Bowsamdi. S4 was nice with the skip starts it enabled.

BfA was a mixed bag with Infested and Baleful being notoriously crap and other two being much more enjoyable.

Prideful was sucky in a way that it forced you into a very specific path, and if you mismanage trash % and fuck up add spawning, it majorly fucks you up. S2 was w/e (Blizz wasted an opportunity of adding extra powers later). S3 was the best, with extra adds being relatively weak and getting nuked down with normal pulls.

But all in all, Thundering is pretty crap. It does not slow you down, but when add all the crapton mechanics we get in new dungeon, it is a mess.

[Teriz]

Do you ever shut up about Tinkers? Jfc dude, sing a new tune already.

It’s an inevitable class in WoW. That being the case, there will also be an expansion relating to that class. It might not occur in 12.0, but it’s going to happen at some point.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

It’s an inevitable class in WoW. That being the case, there will also be an expansion relating to that class. It might not occur in 12.0, but it’s going to happen at some point.

The causality is inverted, however—I'm pretty sure that the expansion theme inspires the class, not that the class inspires the expansion. You can see this in how Blizzard wanted for so long to add Demon Hunters, but only did as late as Legion because they wanted to wait for an expansion to fit them. I think a Tinker would be most suitable for a World Revamp expansion or something else very general in nature, as I doubt an expansion could be carried on the Undermine alone.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

I don't ever want a class that will only be suited for 2 races and stuff like that.

If they ever decide to add another one, it should be like monks or DK where most of people favorite races can be one, and with tinkers i don't see other races than gnomes and goblins being able to be one.

[Fahrad Wagner]

I don't ever want a class that will only be suited for 2 races and stuff like that.

If they ever decide to add another one, it should be like monks or DK where most of people favorite races can be one, and with tinkers i don't see other races than gnomes and goblins being able to be one.

BE, Draenei, Dwarves, Forsaken, Mechagnomes, Vulpera, Humans and Orcs would also easily be suitable for a Tinker class imo.
Not that I see any of that happening soon though

[Nymrohd]

BE, Draenei, Dwarves, Forsaken, Mechagnomes, Vulpera, Humans and Orcs would also easily be suitable for a Tinker class imo.
Not that I see any of that happening soon though

The question with a tinker class is how asset heavy it will be. Most people expect some form of mech spec after all. And that would only work well with race specific mechs.

[Lady Atia]

BE, Draenei, Dwarves, Forsaken, Mechagnomes, Vulpera, Humans and Orcs would also easily be suitable for a Tinker class imo.
Not that I see any of that happening soon though

This. Also tinkers are something that you can learn to be, so the Pandaren approach makes far more sense with them. Say that now that Horde and Alliance work together the Goblins and Gnomes create a new Tinker League or something and invite members of all races to create new exciting stuff together.

[Teriz]

The causality is inverted, however—I'm pretty sure that the expansion theme inspires the class, not that the class inspires the expansion. You can see this in how Blizzard wanted for so long to add Demon Hunters, but only did as late as Legion because they wanted to wait for an expansion to fit them. I think a Tinker would be most suitable for a World Revamp expansion or something else very general in nature, as I doubt an expansion could be carried on the Undermine alone.

Undermine was originally a continent concept for vanilla. No different than the dragon isles. As such, there’s no reason to assume it couldn’t be a basis of an expansion. You could easily stretch an underground/steampunk/technology/urban theme to fill an expansion base. There’s also side areas like new Gadgetzan that you can toss into the mix.

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The question with a tinker class is how asset heavy it will be. Most people expect some form of mech spec after all. And that would only work well with race specific mechs.

That’s not much different than what we see with Druids. Each Druid race gets their own unique bear, cat, Moonkin, and flight form model. I do feel that a tech class should have two different ability assets; One for machinery based tech, and one for magitech.

That said, I would keep things neat and tidy and do Gnome, MGnome, and LFDraenei for Alliance, and Goblin, Vulpera, and Nightborne for the Horde.

[Nightshade711]

That’s not much different than what we see with Druids. Each Druid race gets their own unique bear, cat, Moonkin, and flight form model. I do feel that a tech class should have two different ability assets; One for machinery based tech, and one for magitech.

That said, I would keep things neat and tidy and do Gnome, MGnome, and LFDraenei for Alliance, and Goblin, Vulpera, and Nightborne for the Horde.

Vulpera isn’t a race known for their technology.
If the horde needed a third race it could be Mag’har with their Iron Star technology.
Wouldn’t be that far fetched since we’ve seen mechs using that tech.

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The question with a tinker class is how asset heavy it will be. Most people expect some form of mech spec after all. And that would only work well with race specific mechs.

Tbh though… someone here said it could be a Monk approach and have the goblins/gnomes teach everyone how to be tinkers.
With that the other races would just be using gnomish/goblin tech. Not too far fetched since everyone could learn gnomish/goblin engineering.


Plus only having the two different types of mechs could leave more customization options for them.

[Grimbold21]

You know things have dramatically slowed down when people start recycling tinker drama.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

BE, Draenei, Dwarves, Forsaken, Mechagnomes, Vulpera, Humans and Orcs would also easily be suitable for a Tinker class imo.
Not that I see any of that happening soon though

In my mind, the main conceptual issue with the class is the division between the magitech flavor of Artificer, the gritty mechanists of the Dwarves and Orcs, and your typical Goblin/Gnome breed of Tinker. You could likely have the same class shared between the Goblins and Gnomes and the Dwarves and Orcs if you're willing to compromise on certain aesthetics with a little bit of racial variability, but you're certainly not going to be able to make the same class contain Blood Elven or Draenic Artificers alongside Goblin and Gnomish Tinkers. The abilities would require a great variety of flavor across races, with several different assets and potentially even mild gameplay differences (i.e. Blood Elves and Draenei would need to deal Arcane damage and Goblins and Gnomes would use items dealing physical or fire damage).

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Undermine was originally a continent concept for vanilla. No different than the dragon isles. As such, there’s no reason to assume it couldn’t be a basis of an expansion. You could easily stretch an underground/steampunk/technology/urban theme to fill an expansion base. There’s also side areas like new Gadgetzan that you can toss into the mix.

Firstly, there's no indication it was meant to strictly be equivalent to a continent in terms of scale and content on the early maps—it seemed to just constitute a single zone situated in a different "continent" server moreso than an actual continent. Presumably, this was from back when Goblins were supposed to be a race in Vanilla. I recall that they were cut because their starting zone couldn't be made up to the standards Blizzard wanted with the limited assets they could spare. As such, I'd figure the Undermine would only contain the Goblin capital and the starting zone. If we are to interpret the very early concept arts with vastly different scale from the continents we got as indicative that the Undermine was going to be a continent in terms of content, I feel as though the time for its potential has passed entirely—the fact is that we've already got much of what the Undermine could offer elsewhere. An underground expansion would be far better done in a place like Azjol-Nerub, whereas we've already found much of the "Tinker Town" identity in the likes of Mechagon. Although I could see it carrying a patch, there's just not enough in the way of interesting locales to work with.

Furthermore, I really think that facing off against the same junker robots and whatever would be antagonizing Goblins for the span of two years would get quite exhausting. Not much room for serious storytelling with the overall motifs of Kezan and the Undermine.

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The question with a tinker class is how asset heavy it will be. Most people expect some form of mech spec after all. And that would only work well with race specific mechs.

I think there's a way to make it work, but it's a rather unpleasant expedience. I figure the best way to remain conservative with asset use and maintain consistency while still keeping things suitable is to only divide them strongly across factions—we'd have to cut Draenei, Blood Elves, or Nightborne entirely out of the question. Forsaken would still be possible if there's an alchemical specialization, but they'd still be a tad incongruous among the other specializations—that's not strictly a problem, as we've also got Void Elf Holy Priests and Lightforged Shadow Priests, so we'll overlook that part. As I said, I think the best way to do it would be to divide the aesthetic along factions, so we'd get a sort of Blackfuse-inspired Iron Horde aesthetic on the Horde that blends a little bit with the "grittier" Goblin designs we saw at the Motherlode and maybe Forsaken technology, and for the Alliance something kind of Mechagon-inspired that would sort of share aesthetic DNA with Titan technology.

The former could service Orcs, Mag'har, Goblins, and potentially Forsaken, whereas the latter could sufficiently service Gnomes, Dwarves, Mechagnomes, Dark Iron Dwarves, and maybe Humans if we're willing to stretch a bit. It's far more restricted than anything anybody probably had in mind, but it's the best way to create a class that can be taken seriously and has a bit more racial variety. As I said, a bit unfortunate, but it's the best way that comes to mind without manifesting any kind of absurd demands.

Now I think of it, this could also introduce a nice way to establish major organizations for a Tinker class—you could have the Blackfuse Company after a hostile takeover by Gazlowe-sympathetic leadership represent Horde Tinkers, and then some kind of public Think Tank started by the Titan-descended races for R&D inspired by Titan designs and for conducting troubleshooting on the Alliance, think a WoW version of the RAND Corporation. These would allow for a bit more homogeneity across races without reducing their respective identities as engineers, especially because it justifies overlap without requiring them to totally homogenize into a single body like many classes have across races.

[Darkarath]

You know things have dramatically slowed down when people start recycling tinker drama.

Agreed. We need news about patch 10.1 soon.

BTW Wowhead published something new about Azshara in 10.0.7. Of course Nagas would have a book talking about her. Interesting stuff:

Rise, rise! Our Queen calls to us from beyond the Umbral Veil. She has transcended the Circle of Stars and basks in her eternal grandeur!

The time we have long awaited is nigh.

Even now, the Harbinger gathers the children of the first flesh to reclaim what was lost. They must remember their vows and serve those to whom they owe fealty.

While they toil in the deep places, we will journey to the shores of dragon lands, to the blessed isle where the Worldbreaker first embraced the whispers.

As one storm recedes, another rises. The torches have been lit. The secrets he buried will strike as a dagger into the hearts of his kin!

The Harbinger speaks of a primal power that seeks the end of Order. Such rage can be bent to serve our ends.

A hunger lost to the ages will be reclaimed.

A dark heart left broken awaits the taking.

When these things come to pass, the Harbinger will fulfill the final prophecy and complete the awakening.

Only then shall our Queen return to reign over sea and sky and earth. We must make ready.

Rise, rise! Soon all that was hidden will be revealed.

''Children of the first flesh?'' Hmmmm do not get this one very well. The first stone-beings affected by the curse of flesh, I guess. Might be the new dwarves that we have heard about or a new type of Djaradin.

''The Harbinger speaks of a primal power that seeks the end of Order. Such rage can be bent to serve our ends'' / ''A hunger lost to the ages will be reclaimed.'' I am guessing that these two are talking about Iridikron.

''A dark heart left broken awaits the taking.'' The heart of Azeroth?

[Black Rider]

One can cycle through 8 dungeons rather quickly, even more so if you prefer certain dungeons over others. For instance, I don't like HoV and have only ran it once on an alt as a +5.

Whatever they have prepared for their dungeon seasons, I'd just make them all available at once. Let people do whatever they wish. Personally, I'm looking forward to Uldaman and the gnolls one.

As for cata dungeons, the ones I wouldn't like would be:
- Lost city of the Tol'vir
- Hour of Twilight
- Throne of Tides
- Vortex Pinnacle

Preference for:
- Grim Batol
- Halls of Origination
- The Stonecore
- Blackrock Caverns

You forgot Zul'Aman and Zul'Gurub

[Woobels]

You know things have dramatically slowed down when people start recycling tinker drama.

It does feel like news/info is very slow right now. 10.07 possibly being in late March feels too late to me too.

[Teriz]

Firstly, there's no indication it was meant to strictly be equivalent to a continent in terms of scale and content on the early maps—it seemed to just constitute a single zone situated in a different "continent" server moreso than an actual continent. Presumably, this was from back when Goblins were supposed to be a race in Vanilla. I recall that they were cut because their starting zone couldn't be made up to the standards Blizzard wanted with the limited assets they could spare. As such, I'd figure the Undermine would only contain the Goblin capital and the starting zone. If we are to interpret the very early concept arts with vastly different scale from the continents we got as indicative that the Undermine was going to be a continent in terms of content,

TBF, the Dragon Isles were originally a raid. Nothing stops Blizzard from upscaling the concept from its original concept. Heck, they made the Broken Isles, Kul'Tiras, and Zandalar continent-sized areas. Doing the same for an area that was originally conceived to be a continent (their own words btw) shouldn't be a problem.

I feel as though the time for its potential has passed entirely—the fact is that we've already got much of what the Undermine could offer elsewhere. An underground expansion would be far better done in a place like Azjol-Nerub, whereas we've already found much of the "Tinker Town" identity in the likes of Mechagon. Although I could see it carrying a patch, there's just not enough in the way of interesting locales to work with.

I disagree. We got quite a lot of the Azjol-Nerub theme during WotLK, and I highly doubt its something people want to return to anytime soon. An ancient race of spider-people really only goes one way, and it leads to something very similar to what we saw in WotLK and SHadowlands. An underground theme linked with technology opens up far more possibilities in terms of concept and potential that isn't hard-locked into a singular thematic. For example, you could have a zone with high rises and bustling streets, another zone that is a huge domed area surrounded by water, and another zone with an artificial habitat full of out of control mutated creatures (think Nagrand, but underground). You simply can't get that type of zone diversity from ruins run by ancient spider-people.

Furthermore, I really think that facing off against the same junker robots and whatever would be antagonizing Goblins for the span of two years would get quite exhausting. Not much room for serious storytelling with the overall motifs of Kezan and the Undermine.

Well that entirely depends on how Blizzard presents the material. Unlike Azjol-Nerub, there are threats that can relate to an Undermine expansion. One such possibility is the mechanical threat highlighted in The War. We've never faced a mechanical threat before, and comics and film have shown such threats to be substantial and entertaining.

So on one hand we have a monothematic spider empire that will do nothing but give people feelings of a rehash of WotlK's worst dungeons, and on the other we have a varied, cosmopolitan civilization that can offer us a threat we've never encountered before. This, along with a new class that offers a new thematic that isn't available in the class lineup.

If I were Blizzard, the choice would be obvious.

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Vulpera isn’t a race known for their technology.
If the horde needed a third race it could be Mag’har with their Iron Star technology.
Wouldn’t be that far fetched since we’ve seen mechs using that tech.

I'd be totally fine with Mag'har being playable for technology-based class.