The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Teriz]

The causality is inverted, however—I'm pretty sure that the expansion theme inspires the class, not that the class inspires the expansion. You can see this in how Blizzard wanted for so long to add Demon Hunters, but only did as late as Legion because they wanted to wait for an expansion to fit them. I think a Tinker would be most suitable for a World Revamp expansion or something else very general in nature, as I doubt an expansion could be carried on the Undermine alone.

Undermine was originally a continent concept for vanilla. No different than the dragon isles. As such, there’s no reason to assume it couldn’t be a basis of an expansion. You could easily stretch an underground/steampunk/technology/urban theme to fill an expansion base. There’s also side areas like new Gadgetzan that you can toss into the mix.

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The question with a tinker class is how asset heavy it will be. Most people expect some form of mech spec after all. And that would only work well with race specific mechs.

That’s not much different than what we see with Druids. Each Druid race gets their own unique bear, cat, Moonkin, and flight form model. I do feel that a tech class should have two different ability assets; One for machinery based tech, and one for magitech.

That said, I would keep things neat and tidy and do Gnome, MGnome, and LFDraenei for Alliance, and Goblin, Vulpera, and Nightborne for the Horde.

[Nightshade711]

That’s not much different than what we see with Druids. Each Druid race gets their own unique bear, cat, Moonkin, and flight form model. I do feel that a tech class should have two different ability assets; One for machinery based tech, and one for magitech.

That said, I would keep things neat and tidy and do Gnome, MGnome, and LFDraenei for Alliance, and Goblin, Vulpera, and Nightborne for the Horde.

Vulpera isn’t a race known for their technology.
If the horde needed a third race it could be Mag’har with their Iron Star technology.
Wouldn’t be that far fetched since we’ve seen mechs using that tech.

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The question with a tinker class is how asset heavy it will be. Most people expect some form of mech spec after all. And that would only work well with race specific mechs.

Tbh though… someone here said it could be a Monk approach and have the goblins/gnomes teach everyone how to be tinkers.
With that the other races would just be using gnomish/goblin tech. Not too far fetched since everyone could learn gnomish/goblin engineering.


Plus only having the two different types of mechs could leave more customization options for them.

[Grimbold21]

You know things have dramatically slowed down when people start recycling tinker drama.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

BE, Draenei, Dwarves, Forsaken, Mechagnomes, Vulpera, Humans and Orcs would also easily be suitable for a Tinker class imo.
Not that I see any of that happening soon though

In my mind, the main conceptual issue with the class is the division between the magitech flavor of Artificer, the gritty mechanists of the Dwarves and Orcs, and your typical Goblin/Gnome breed of Tinker. You could likely have the same class shared between the Goblins and Gnomes and the Dwarves and Orcs if you're willing to compromise on certain aesthetics with a little bit of racial variability, but you're certainly not going to be able to make the same class contain Blood Elven or Draenic Artificers alongside Goblin and Gnomish Tinkers. The abilities would require a great variety of flavor across races, with several different assets and potentially even mild gameplay differences (i.e. Blood Elves and Draenei would need to deal Arcane damage and Goblins and Gnomes would use items dealing physical or fire damage).

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Undermine was originally a continent concept for vanilla. No different than the dragon isles. As such, there’s no reason to assume it couldn’t be a basis of an expansion. You could easily stretch an underground/steampunk/technology/urban theme to fill an expansion base. There’s also side areas like new Gadgetzan that you can toss into the mix.

Firstly, there's no indication it was meant to strictly be equivalent to a continent in terms of scale and content on the early maps—it seemed to just constitute a single zone situated in a different "continent" server moreso than an actual continent. Presumably, this was from back when Goblins were supposed to be a race in Vanilla. I recall that they were cut because their starting zone couldn't be made up to the standards Blizzard wanted with the limited assets they could spare. As such, I'd figure the Undermine would only contain the Goblin capital and the starting zone. If we are to interpret the very early concept arts with vastly different scale from the continents we got as indicative that the Undermine was going to be a continent in terms of content, I feel as though the time for its potential has passed entirely—the fact is that we've already got much of what the Undermine could offer elsewhere. An underground expansion would be far better done in a place like Azjol-Nerub, whereas we've already found much of the "Tinker Town" identity in the likes of Mechagon. Although I could see it carrying a patch, there's just not enough in the way of interesting locales to work with.

Furthermore, I really think that facing off against the same junker robots and whatever would be antagonizing Goblins for the span of two years would get quite exhausting. Not much room for serious storytelling with the overall motifs of Kezan and the Undermine.

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The question with a tinker class is how asset heavy it will be. Most people expect some form of mech spec after all. And that would only work well with race specific mechs.

I think there's a way to make it work, but it's a rather unpleasant expedience. I figure the best way to remain conservative with asset use and maintain consistency while still keeping things suitable is to only divide them strongly across factions—we'd have to cut Draenei, Blood Elves, or Nightborne entirely out of the question. Forsaken would still be possible if there's an alchemical specialization, but they'd still be a tad incongruous among the other specializations—that's not strictly a problem, as we've also got Void Elf Holy Priests and Lightforged Shadow Priests, so we'll overlook that part. As I said, I think the best way to do it would be to divide the aesthetic along factions, so we'd get a sort of Blackfuse-inspired Iron Horde aesthetic on the Horde that blends a little bit with the "grittier" Goblin designs we saw at the Motherlode and maybe Forsaken technology, and for the Alliance something kind of Mechagon-inspired that would sort of share aesthetic DNA with Titan technology.

The former could service Orcs, Mag'har, Goblins, and potentially Forsaken, whereas the latter could sufficiently service Gnomes, Dwarves, Mechagnomes, Dark Iron Dwarves, and maybe Humans if we're willing to stretch a bit. It's far more restricted than anything anybody probably had in mind, but it's the best way to create a class that can be taken seriously and has a bit more racial variety. As I said, a bit unfortunate, but it's the best way that comes to mind without manifesting any kind of absurd demands.

Now I think of it, this could also introduce a nice way to establish major organizations for a Tinker class—you could have the Blackfuse Company after a hostile takeover by Gazlowe-sympathetic leadership represent Horde Tinkers, and then some kind of public Think Tank started by the Titan-descended races for R&D inspired by Titan designs and for conducting troubleshooting on the Alliance, think a WoW version of the RAND Corporation. These would allow for a bit more homogeneity across races without reducing their respective identities as engineers, especially because it justifies overlap without requiring them to totally homogenize into a single body like many classes have across races.

[Darkarath]

You know things have dramatically slowed down when people start recycling tinker drama.

Agreed. We need news about patch 10.1 soon.

BTW Wowhead published something new about Azshara in 10.0.7. Of course Nagas would have a book talking about her. Interesting stuff:

Rise, rise! Our Queen calls to us from beyond the Umbral Veil. She has transcended the Circle of Stars and basks in her eternal grandeur!

The time we have long awaited is nigh.

Even now, the Harbinger gathers the children of the first flesh to reclaim what was lost. They must remember their vows and serve those to whom they owe fealty.

While they toil in the deep places, we will journey to the shores of dragon lands, to the blessed isle where the Worldbreaker first embraced the whispers.

As one storm recedes, another rises. The torches have been lit. The secrets he buried will strike as a dagger into the hearts of his kin!

The Harbinger speaks of a primal power that seeks the end of Order. Such rage can be bent to serve our ends.

A hunger lost to the ages will be reclaimed.

A dark heart left broken awaits the taking.

When these things come to pass, the Harbinger will fulfill the final prophecy and complete the awakening.

Only then shall our Queen return to reign over sea and sky and earth. We must make ready.

Rise, rise! Soon all that was hidden will be revealed.

''Children of the first flesh?'' Hmmmm do not get this one very well. The first stone-beings affected by the curse of flesh, I guess. Might be the new dwarves that we have heard about or a new type of Djaradin.

''The Harbinger speaks of a primal power that seeks the end of Order. Such rage can be bent to serve our ends'' / ''A hunger lost to the ages will be reclaimed.'' I am guessing that these two are talking about Iridikron.

''A dark heart left broken awaits the taking.'' The heart of Azeroth?

[Black Rider]

One can cycle through 8 dungeons rather quickly, even more so if you prefer certain dungeons over others. For instance, I don't like HoV and have only ran it once on an alt as a +5.

Whatever they have prepared for their dungeon seasons, I'd just make them all available at once. Let people do whatever they wish. Personally, I'm looking forward to Uldaman and the gnolls one.

As for cata dungeons, the ones I wouldn't like would be:
- Lost city of the Tol'vir
- Hour of Twilight
- Throne of Tides
- Vortex Pinnacle

Preference for:
- Grim Batol
- Halls of Origination
- The Stonecore
- Blackrock Caverns

You forgot Zul'Aman and Zul'Gurub

[Woobels]

You know things have dramatically slowed down when people start recycling tinker drama.

It does feel like news/info is very slow right now. 10.07 possibly being in late March feels too late to me too.

[Teriz]

Firstly, there's no indication it was meant to strictly be equivalent to a continent in terms of scale and content on the early maps—it seemed to just constitute a single zone situated in a different "continent" server moreso than an actual continent. Presumably, this was from back when Goblins were supposed to be a race in Vanilla. I recall that they were cut because their starting zone couldn't be made up to the standards Blizzard wanted with the limited assets they could spare. As such, I'd figure the Undermine would only contain the Goblin capital and the starting zone. If we are to interpret the very early concept arts with vastly different scale from the continents we got as indicative that the Undermine was going to be a continent in terms of content,

TBF, the Dragon Isles were originally a raid. Nothing stops Blizzard from upscaling the concept from its original concept. Heck, they made the Broken Isles, Kul'Tiras, and Zandalar continent-sized areas. Doing the same for an area that was originally conceived to be a continent (their own words btw) shouldn't be a problem.

I feel as though the time for its potential has passed entirely—the fact is that we've already got much of what the Undermine could offer elsewhere. An underground expansion would be far better done in a place like Azjol-Nerub, whereas we've already found much of the "Tinker Town" identity in the likes of Mechagon. Although I could see it carrying a patch, there's just not enough in the way of interesting locales to work with.

I disagree. We got quite a lot of the Azjol-Nerub theme during WotLK, and I highly doubt its something people want to return to anytime soon. An ancient race of spider-people really only goes one way, and it leads to something very similar to what we saw in WotLK and SHadowlands. An underground theme linked with technology opens up far more possibilities in terms of concept and potential that isn't hard-locked into a singular thematic. For example, you could have a zone with high rises and bustling streets, another zone that is a huge domed area surrounded by water, and another zone with an artificial habitat full of out of control mutated creatures (think Nagrand, but underground). You simply can't get that type of zone diversity from ruins run by ancient spider-people.

Furthermore, I really think that facing off against the same junker robots and whatever would be antagonizing Goblins for the span of two years would get quite exhausting. Not much room for serious storytelling with the overall motifs of Kezan and the Undermine.

Well that entirely depends on how Blizzard presents the material. Unlike Azjol-Nerub, there are threats that can relate to an Undermine expansion. One such possibility is the mechanical threat highlighted in The War. We've never faced a mechanical threat before, and comics and film have shown such threats to be substantial and entertaining.

So on one hand we have a monothematic spider empire that will do nothing but give people feelings of a rehash of WotlK's worst dungeons, and on the other we have a varied, cosmopolitan civilization that can offer us a threat we've never encountered before. This, along with a new class that offers a new thematic that isn't available in the class lineup.

If I were Blizzard, the choice would be obvious.

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Vulpera isn’t a race known for their technology.
If the horde needed a third race it could be Mag’har with their Iron Star technology.
Wouldn’t be that far fetched since we’ve seen mechs using that tech.

I'd be totally fine with Mag'har being playable for technology-based class.

[Nymrohd]

We want 10.1 by May/June right? 6 months for a season seems reasonable.

[Dracullus]

We want 10.1 by May/June right? 6 months for a season seems reasonable.

They almost always release some patch in March and June. 10.0.7 in March is obvious, but I don't know how they want deal with D4 situation. It will obviously take maaany WoW players for at least 2 weeks.

I start to think it will release in last days of June, that's why 10.0.7 is bigger than usual minor patch. Other option would be May, but they would have to wrap up everything including world first race before D4 release. Also PTR for major patches usualy was longer than 2 months.

[Worldshaper]

Super slow news week so far. One can only hope it's because they're prepping a major PTR build for tonight?

[Lady Atia]

Super slow news week so far. One can only hope it's because they're prepping a major PTR build for tonight?

PTR realms are offline

[Teriz]

You've been saying that for 10+ years. Get over it. Everyone has lost interest in your obnoxious obsession.

The length of time it takes for the class to show up in the game is irrelevant to the point; There will be a technology-based class in WoW. There is enough lore and open design space for it to happen.

More to the topic of this thread; We’re going to eventually see an Undermine expansion as well. The devs said as much back before WoD. I doubt we’d get an Undermine expansion without a fitting class to go along with its theme.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

TBF, the Dragon Isles were originally a raid. Nothing stops Blizzard from upscaling the concept from its original concept. Heck, they made the Broken Isles, Kul'Tiras, and Zandalar continent-sized areas. Doing the same for an area that was originally conceived to be a continent (their own words btw) shouldn't be a problem.



I disagree. We got quite a lot of the Azjol-Nerub theme during WotLK, and I highly doubt its something people want to return to anytime soon. An ancient race of spider-people really only goes one way, and it leads to something very similar to what we saw in WotLK and SHadowlands. An underground theme linked with technology opens up far more possibilities in terms of concept and potential that isn't hard-locked into a singular thematic. For example, you could have a zone with high rises and bustling streets, another zone that is a huge domed area surrounded by water, and another zone with an artificial habitat full of out of control mutated creatures (think Nagrand, but underground). You simply can't get that type of zone diversity from ruins run by ancient spider-people.



Well that entirely depends on how Blizzard presents the material. Unlike Azjol-Nerub, there are threats that can relate to an Undermine expansion. One such possibility is the mechanical threat highlighted in The War. We've never faced a mechanical threat before, and comics and film have shown such threats to be substantial and entertaining.

So on one hand we have a monothematic spider empire that will do nothing but give people feelings of a rehash of WotlK's worst dungeons, and on the other we have a varied, cosmopolitan civilization that can offer us a threat we've never encountered before. This, along with a new class that offers a new thematic that isn't available in the class lineup.

If I were Blizzard, the choice would be obvious.

I believe you're being very disingenuous in reducing the Nerubians to the two dungeons we've already seen while simultaneously acknowledging how Undermine could be expanded—I think that the Goblins are far more thematically-homogeneous and lacking in versatility than the Nerubians are. Another crucial element you're ignoring is that it would be fairly impossible to detach the Undermine from the overarching Goblin influence in a way that is beyond the capacity to detach the area beneath Northrend from Nerubians alone, or even beyond the level of integration the Broken Isles saw with its overarching Night Elf theme. Going to the Undermine would be an enjoyable romp for a patch or so, but an entire expansion of nothing but Goblins and their consequences would be extraordinarily banal, and would also alienate pretty much anybody who isn't presently playing a Goblin or a Gnome. Even Pandaria had plenty of things to offer for non-Pandaren, and that's something I simply think is lacking from a place like the Undermine. The Goblin aesthetic being mainly composed of deliberately hideous eyesores also does very little to endear me to the idea of spending two years exploring five zones constituting five different iterations of unadulterated Goblin memery.

I also maintain that a joke story arc attached to an NPC called "Blingtron" would be a very terrible story to drive an expansion. This kind of mechanical threat is not only generally unsuited to the setting, but it also simultaneously lacks any sensible connection to anything else on Azeroth or any reason to want to care about it (even relative to, say, the Jailer) and, as I said, is a joke by its very nature.

As for an expansion set beneath Northrend, I can very easily envision a wide variety of environs to explore that are a tad more aesthetically-appealing and intriguing than five different variations of mechanical flotsam. I recall conceptualizing an expansion all the way back in 2019 which featured a set of different zones beneath Northrend, each reflecting the area it was situated under. One zone would be a beautiful blue ice cavern beneath the Storm Peaks covered in Titan technology and bio-luminescent fungus resembling the Naz'Anak subzone from Wrath of the Lich King, which would be the underside of Ulduar leading into a second facility hosting Azeroth's World Soul. Another would be the underside of Grizzly Hills, a massive underground forest centered around the corrupted roots of Vordrassil, where the area becomes increasingly similar to it the Emerald Nightmare the closer you get to its Nexus. Eventually, Vordrassil's roots would become host to a second Emerald Nightmare raid where you stop Gorak Tul or somebody of the sort from usurping the now-vacant position of Nightmare Lord. Beneath Wintergrasp and Sholazar would be another lush cavern, but this one would resemble Sholazar Basin a bit more and generally be designed to be a bit more wondrous than the area around Vordrassil, and it would be host to a plot centered around either Malygos loyalists or Titanic archaeology. It would have glowing blue water that illuminates the cavern and an overwhelmingly green color scheme, and it would be full of blind, albinistic versions of creatures we've seen populating Northrend proper. Beneath Icecrown you would have a massive sprawl of Scourge architecture centered around the depths of the Forge of Souls, with the now-leaderless Scourge quarreling over it under a set of assorted warlords selected from various Scourge leaders we never got around to finishing off. Finally, you would have the city of the Nerubians proper, which is coming back to life in the absence of the Scourge—it would resemble an updated version of the Azjol-Nerub instances, though would also be designed to resemble Ny'Alotha, with the general aesthetic being this sprawling temple-city and the story being centered around a power struggle between the various would-be leaders of the renascent Nerubian culture. To keep everything spacious and not too claustrophobic, the roof would be extremely high and Northrend's underground would only have walls enclosing the whole space and none between the zones (which I think would instead be at varying elevations in addition to their horizontal positions, so as to keep it feeling like it's all still underground), keeping everything breathable and preventing the underground setting from becoming exhausting.

Although I like Goblins, their identity is fairly one-note, and I simply cannot see an entire expansion orbiting them being very appealing. Their architecture is quite ugly and an entire set of zones with no distinguishing natural features divorced from Goblin technology or bioexpermintation would quickly become insufferable. Conversely, Nerubians have always been quite interesting and I think they have enough mystique around them to carry an expansion. Add to this their connections to Yogg-Saron, a character that I think is likely to return to the spotlight very soon, and the fact that not every single zone beneath Northrend would have to be inexorably tied to their identity, and you have a recipe for something pretty interesting.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

omg tinker RAF rewards!1!!!1

[Teriz]

I believe you're being very disingenuous in reducing the Nerubians to the two dungeons we've already seen while simultaneously acknowledging how Undermine could be expanded—I think that the Goblins are far more thematically-homogeneous and lacking in versatility than the Nerubians are.

Uh how? The Goblins run a trade empire controlled by various trade princes. Heck, we see their diversity in the game already in various Goblin-controlled areas. You have Booty Bay which is pretty much a pirate cove run by Goblins. On the other hand you have Gadgetzhan which is a Goblin-run desert outpost that is expanded into a large port city in other Warcraft media (Hearthstone). Then you had Blackfuse who ran the Blackfuse company which was technology based. Then there was Gallywix who was a glorified slumlord that despoiled the land and sat on a pile of gold. I'm very curious how you think Nerubians offer more variety than that.

Another crucial element you're ignoring is that it would be fairly impossible to detach the Undermine from the overarching Goblin influence in a way that is beyond the capacity to detach the area beneath Northrend from Nerubians alone, or even beyond the level of integration the Broken Isles saw with its overarching Night Elf theme. Going to the Undermine would be an enjoyable romp for a patch or so, but an entire expansion of nothing but Goblins and their consequences would be extraordinarily banal, and would also alienate pretty much anybody who isn't presently playing a Goblin or a Gnome. Even Pandaria had plenty of things to offer for non-Pandaren, and that's something I simply think is lacking from a place like the Undermine. The Goblin aesthetic being mainly composed of deliberately hideous eyesores also does very little to endear me to the idea of spending two years exploring five zones constituting five different iterations of unadulterated Goblin memery.

Again, Undermine is cosmopolitan because Goblins are traders by nature, so it isn't just going to be made up of Goblins. Here's Blizzard's expanded concept for Gadgetzhan, a port city controlled by Goblins;



Undermine would be similar.

I also maintain that a joke story arc attached to an NPC called "Blingtron" would be a very terrible story to drive an expansion. This kind of mechanical threat is not only generally unsuited to the setting, but it also simultaneously lacks any sensible connection to anything else on Azeroth or any reason to want to care about it (even relative to, say, the Jailer) and, as I said, is a joke by its very nature.

Why would it be unsuited for the setting? You have a technological threat and Undermine is a location with technology. Additionally it would be quite easy to have said threat target Kezan/Undermine because of Kaja'mite and Azerite which are both in abundance in that area. A technological race would especially find Azerite highly valuable.

The story is quite simple; The main antagonist wins the blingtron and decides to eradicate all organic life on Azeroth. It takes over a titan complex, utilizes the technology there and then goes after Undermine for its Azerite deposits. The overwhelmed Goblins seek out the factions for aid and that's how the expansion kicks off. You could even have the machines attack Stormwind and Orgrimmar for good measure.

As for an expansion set beneath Northrend, I can very easily envision a wide variety of environs to explore that are a tad more aesthetically-appealing and intriguing than five different variations of mechanical flotsam. I recall conceptualizing an expansion all the way back in 2019 which featured a set of different zones beneath Northrend, each reflecting the area it was situated under. One zone would be a beautiful blue ice cavern beneath the Storm Peaks covered in Titan technology and bio-luminescent fungus resembling the Naz'Anak subzone from Wrath of the Lich King, which would be the underside of Ulduar leading into a second facility hosting Azeroth's World Soul. Another would be the underside of Grizzly Hills, a massive underground forest centered around the corrupted roots of Vordrassil, where the area becomes increasingly similar to it the Emerald Nightmare the closer you get to its Nexus. Eventually, Vordrassil's roots would become host to a second Emerald Nightmare raid where you stop Gorak Tul or somebody of the sort from usurping the now-vacant position of Nightmare Lord. Beneath Wintergrasp and Sholazar would be another lush cavern, but this one would resemble Sholazar Basin a bit more and generally be designed to be a bit more wondrous than the area around Vordrassil, and it would be host to a plot centered around either Malygos loyalists or Titanic archaeology. It would have glowing blue water that illuminates the cavern and an overwhelmingly green color scheme, and it would be full of blind, albinistic versions of creatures we've seen populating Northrend proper. Beneath Icecrown you would have a massive sprawl of Scourge architecture centered around the depths of the Forge of Souls, with the now-leaderless Scourge quarreling over it under a set of assorted warlords selected from various Scourge leaders we never got around to finishing off. Finally, you would have the city of the Nerubians proper, which is coming back to life in the absence of the Scourge—it would resemble an updated version of the Azjol-Nerub instances, though would also be designed to resemble Ny'Alotha, with the general aesthetic being this sprawling temple-city and the story being centered around a power struggle between the various would-be leaders of the renascent Nerubian culture. To keep everything spacious and not too claustrophobic, the roof would be extremely high and Northrend's underground would only have walls enclosing the whole space and none between the zones (which I think would instead be at varying elevations in addition to their horizontal positions, so as to keep it feeling like it's all still underground), keeping everything breathable and preventing the underground setting from becoming exhausting.

Again, the problem is that would be a third Undead/Death expansion, and our second time in Northrend. There's a reason Blizzard wanted to attach Azjol-Nerub to WotlK and the Lich King; Because it can't stand on its own as a solo expansion. You're even talking about regurgitating enemies and concepts from WotLk. It's a retread, plain and simple. After Shadowlands, I have severe doubts that the audience wants to do another expansion dealing with death/undeath ever again.

Although I like Goblins, their identity is fairly one-note, and I simply cannot see an entire expansion orbiting them being very appealing. Their architecture is quite ugly and an entire set of zones with no distinguishing natural features divorced from Goblin technology or bioexpermintation would quickly become insufferable.

Like I said, Blizzard has already demonstrated what a cosmopolitan Goblin area can look like.



There's no reason Undermine can't look like this. I would also make an expanded Gadgetzhan a part of an Undermine expansion;

[Woobels]

This entire thread does not have to be about fucking tinkers again it's not happening this expansion anyways it just goes in circles every time at least save it for later in the expansion.

[Teriz]

This entire thread does not have to be about fucking tinkers again it's not happening this expansion anyways it just goes in circles every time at least save it for later in the expansion.

We’re not talking about Tinkers. We’re talking about the possibility of an Undermine expansion versus an Azjol-Nerub expansion.

[KayRule]

Can't believe Tinkers finally permanently deconfirmed in the worst way possible. Not even a class skin, or accessible cosmetics - Tinkers being relegated to RAF cosmetic, what a fucking travesty.

[KayRule]

People are going to be real mad next expansion. Kezan, but it's not a "Tinker" expac, it's a Void expac. It's going to piss off the tech expac wanters, the void expac wanters, and the Tinker fans. Good news is the expansion after is going to be a fun pirate adventure.