The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nymrohd]

Personally I wonder why Dreamsurges doesn't affect all content in the zone. Specifically the zone specific content like Dragonbane Keep Sieges in Waking Shore, or the Aylaag quests in Ohn'ahra plains. Nor do I get why the rares couldn't also just drop their regular drops at an item level appropriate for the patch. Sure it would probably lead to some OP combinations, but the items will be obsolete soon anyways.

At least have them drop in Veteran quality or something. And given we are going to the next patch, Champion would be better so they might even be useful.

[huth]

Every person in Blizzard is always the worst thing to ever happen to an artistic medium. That is, until they leave, at which point they become the only reasonable voice holding back the tide of shit.
Metzen is no exception. Stories were sometimes good, sometimes shit back when he was in charge, same as they are now.
Sometimes you got Stonetalon Mountains. Sometimes you got Thrall's wedding.
Sometimes in current expansions you get the Orc Heritage questline or Drustvar. Sometimes you get Siege of Dazar'alor.

I'd say the biggest change since Metzen left is that we get way more cinematics. That tended to be a once per Expansion thing.

[Nebron]

I usually like Bel's content but that video, oh boy, is just full of toxic masculinity. Dragonflight is the best Expansion since Legion, and easily on par with MoP, but all he does is crying about it being not "brutal enough" and how guys would have prefered the ugly Draconids instead of the Dracthyr? WoW doesn't need to change "direction", it's already on the right track, all they need is a nostalgia bait expansion to bring back a mass of players similiar to WoD/Shadowlands (which had a huge number of new/returning players but didn't manage to retain them unlike Dragonflight).

Not sure whether it's about "toxic masculinity", but I do agree with Bellular actually.

Especially with the idea, that in recent years, storytelling went the "tell, don't show" path. It's very apparent in dialogs for example - sometimes when new strings are datamined, it makes me cringe a little. It usually goes like this: "Oh no! The Dream has finally been attacked. We are the Green Dragonflight, the Defenders of the Dream, and so we must protect our home!". Obviously, it never goes like this, it's an exaggeration on my side, but the lack of character in dialogs is just ubiquitous. It's almost like if Blizzard was afraid, that players are too stupid to uncover the nuances for themselves - well, they are not.

Also, I do believe that the strongest driving force for curosity is the excitment about unknown. I prefer the mysticism around cosmology - gods, titans, creators. Once Blizzard started meddling with that stuff, it all fell apart for me. I'm no longer interested in titans, nor void lords (probably that's why I don't like the idea of Light vs. Void expansion). Even the concept of Elune lost it's power in my eyes. Her being represented by Moon in elvish culture or stuff like that pushed my creativity to limits, when I was fantasizing as a kid of what she might be and how powerful she is. I loved the idea that she's somehow connected to Earth Mother, and that these cultures (taurens and elves) actually have something in common, but just name it differently (an analogy to religions or something).

It all disappeared, I'd say, with Argus. Since then, it was just a downhill, with a jewel in crown in the form of Zereth Mortis stuff.

Same with Dragonflight. English is not my native language, so as a kid I didn't understand much, but I knew that Nozdormu is the time-guy, and I felt some sort of weird respect to him. Not really talkative one, but damn, he's awesome. Alexstrasza - freaking queen of the dragons - holy molly, so cool. She seems to be resolute and wise beyond anything. And boom - Dragonflight comes and she's actually the most boring character of them all. Pathethic, indecisive, lacking any character. It doesn't sell "the other side of personality" well.

And the last thing that boggles me a lot, is the omnipotence of these characters, They always have some grand plan that stretches over, I don't know, 2 or more expansions? just to be revealed as a total lucklaster. They never lack any knowledge, they are never in a need of crucial information. They just know.
How cool would it be if the whole Nozdormu storyline revolved around Incarnates trying to access some knowledge that he keeps hidden from them, rather than Iridkron siphoning some random void stuff from Galakrond? If we had story bits here and there, and eventually it all came into a single picture that makes a lot of sense in the end?

I don't know, maybe it's my preference, but I do agree with Bellular's take a lot

[Super Dickmann]

Franchise needs violence is the beginning and end of it. Without some of the old ultraviolence, hostility between alignable factions everything else is hot air. It's why Kosak had the pulse of what was needed while Metzen was writing SC2. He understood this most basic requirement of it. DF is perfectly functional and its tone is fine in isolation, but it's not a long-term replicable direction. World peace, unifaction, etc. all transitory and ultimately doomed. At this stage of the franchise's lifecycle, attraction is mostly a lost cause, you're playing reclaiming and maintaing interest, the former done via theme and imagery, the latter via content cadence.

[Dracullus]

Wrath and Legion were payoff expansions with proper build up (Wrath in Frozen Throne and Naxxramas, Legion in MoP and WoD), simple as that. And by they way, look at last speculation thread and look what people wanted - down to earth, 'peace' expansion, people were even whining Raszageth is too much and we are saving world again. Of course it's not as exciting as "end of world" expansion, but again, you can't have that without build up.

Imo only Shadowlands had potential to be another payoff expac, but for that they would have to be consistent both in BfA and SL. First BfA was half war and half old god expac (and war plot get less and less attention every patch), then in SL they teased interesing motivation for Jailer and Sylvanas only to make Sylvanas idiot in 9.1 and making Jailor goal boring domination of all being to.. oh yeah, it wasn't even explained why he want to do that.

I liked 'landmark' style to show us story progression in Legion and SL, don't see potential for this in DF. It could be tree manifesting into world, but after they straight up said it will be new Nelf home and confirmed revamp, pretty obvious Tree will be somewhere closer to old continents.

[Super Dickmann]

People think they do, but they don't. The same people now writing novels about how SL was a betrayal of down to earth bear-ass hunting expansions were writing about how the factions were done and it was time to go to space. What they actually want is something that can be invested in in a practical sense, i.e factions. There's a reason the only thing that causes more than academic interest in what is otherwise a perfectly functional isolated narrative in DF is the next stage of the insufferable night elf tree drama.

[Cheezits]

People think they do, but they don't. The same people now writing novels about how SL was a betrayal of down to earth bear-ass hunting expansions were writing about how the factions were done and it was time to go to space. What they actually want is something that can be invested in in a practical sense, i.e factions. There's a reason the only thing that causes more than academic interest in what is otherwise a perfectly functional isolated narrative in DF is the next stage of the insufferable night elf tree drama.

Ironically there should be no drama because it's obvious the tree will be fine. If anything the drama should be about whether the new city will be on the tree or on the ground.

[Super Dickmann]

Ironically there should be no drama because it's obvious the tree will be fine. If anything the drama should be about whether the new city will be on the tree or on the ground.

The drama isn't about the tree, it's about whether there's enough blood money paid despite night elf content being in every expansion and there being more quests taken by the Horde player from Shandris than there is from any single faction leader of theirs.

[milkmustache]

The drama isn't about the tree, it's about whether there's enough blood money paid despite night elf content being in every expansion and there being more quests taken by the Horde player from Shandris than there is from any single faction leader of theirs.

Lol, didn't think about this until now. I'm on board with no more faction wars, but god it's stale having factions completely ignored.

[huth]

People think they do, but they don't. The same people now writing novels about how SL was a betrayal of down to earth bear-ass hunting expansions were writing about how the factions were done and it was time to go to space. What they actually want is something that can be invested in in a practical sense, i.e factions. There's a reason the only thing that causes more than academic interest in what is otherwise a perfectly functional isolated narrative in DF is the next stage of the insufferable night elf tree drama.

That sounds more like you're projecting your own personal wants on everybody else, to be honest.

[Woggmer]

Not sure whether it's about "toxic masculinity", but I do agree with Bellular actually.

Especially with the idea, that in recent years, storytelling went the "tell, don't show" path. It's very apparent in dialogs for example - sometimes when new strings are datamined, it makes me cringe a little. It usually goes like this: "Oh no! The Dream has finally been attacked. We are the Green Dragonflight, the Defenders of the Dream, and so we must protect our home!". Obviously, it never goes like this, it's an exaggeration on my side, but the lack of character in dialogs is just ubiquitous. It's almost like if Blizzard was afraid, that players are too stupid to uncover the nuances for themselves - well, they are not.

Also, I do believe that the strongest driving force for curosity is the excitment about unknown. I prefer the mysticism around cosmology - gods, titans, creators. Once Blizzard started meddling with that stuff, it all fell apart for me. I'm no longer interested in titans, nor void lords (probably that's why I don't like the idea of Light vs. Void expansion). Even the concept of Elune lost it's power in my eyes. Her being represented by Moon in elvish culture or stuff like that pushed my creativity to limits, when I was fantasizing as a kid of what she might be and how powerful she is. I loved the idea that she's somehow connected to Earth Mother, and that these cultures (taurens and elves) actually have something in common, but just name it differently (an analogy to religions or something).

It all disappeared, I'd say, with Argus. Since then, it was just a downhill, with a jewel in crown in the form of Zereth Mortis stuff.

Same with Dragonflight. English is not my native language, so as a kid I didn't understand much, but I knew that Nozdormu is the time-guy, and I felt some sort of weird respect to him. Not really talkative one, but damn, he's awesome. Alexstrasza - freaking queen of the dragons - holy molly, so cool. She seems to be resolute and wise beyond anything. And boom - Dragonflight comes and she's actually the most boring character of them all. Pathethic, indecisive, lacking any character. It doesn't sell "the other side of personality" well.

And the last thing that boggles me a lot, is the omnipotence of these characters, They always have some grand plan that stretches over, I don't know, 2 or more expansions? just to be revealed as a total lucklaster. They never lack any knowledge, they are never in a need of crucial information. They just know.
How cool would it be if the whole Nozdormu storyline revolved around Incarnates trying to access some knowledge that he keeps hidden from them, rather than Iridkron siphoning some random void stuff from Galakrond? If we had story bits here and there, and eventually it all came into a single picture that makes a lot of sense in the end?

I don't know, maybe it's my preference, but I do agree with Bellular's take a lot

The other big issue is that they write these characters in what they think would work in a novel, like say several books focusing on Sylvanas where we get a deep dive into her history and psyche.... but that doesn't translate well into a video game (or at least not in an MMORPG like WoW) The same is happening to Alexstraza, where she was a mysterious being prior to DF... but when DF comes around they probably had an idea for how she acts in the next novel coming "War of the Scaleborn" and they have to reflect her character to match what was written.

In other words, the characterization is built specifically for the novel, and the game second. That's just my viewpoint about it.

[Luck4]

The other big issue is that they write these characters in what they think would work in a novel, like say several books focusing on Sylvanas where we get a deep dive into her history and psyche.... but that doesn't translate well into a video game (or at least not in an MMORPG like WoW) The same is happening to Alexstraza, where she was a mysterious being prior to DF... but when DF comes around they probably had an idea for how she acts in the next novel coming "War of the Scaleborn" and they have to reflect her character to match what was written.

In other words, the characterization is built specifically for the novel, and the game second. That's just my viewpoint about it.

I think this makes a lot of sense.

[Hitei]

Not sure whether it's about "toxic masculinity", but I do agree with Bellular actually.

Especially with the idea, that in recent years, storytelling went the "tell, don't show" path. It's very apparent in dialogs for example - sometimes when new strings are datamined, it makes me cringe a little. It usually goes like this: "Oh no! The Dream has finally been attacked. We are the Green Dragonflight, the Defenders of the Dream, and so we must protect our home!". Obviously, it never goes like this, it's an exaggeration on my side, but the lack of character in dialogs is just ubiquitous. It's almost like if Blizzard was afraid, that players are too stupid to uncover the nuances for themselves - well, they are not.

This isn't "in recent years". Characters have always done this.

[Nibelheimy]

Lmaooo the fact y'all believe that shit is hilarious...

I'm sure they had a good intention and tried to salvage the story without making jarring changes to the storyline he'd helped plan after his leave that would upset players.

In hindsight, they should of just pulled the trigger and 180'd the storyline. I'd have rather had that instead of what we got in BFA and Shadowlands I think.

One of my blizzard pet peeves is this weird pretense they and many other company's use where they pretend everything is going exactly to plan. A little humility and honesty can go for miles with your fan base as seen with FF. I wish for once they would learn a little from that.

[Worldshaper]

What are some of your wishes for 11.0 that make you all giddy and excited?

For me, just seeing Metzen announce a WoW expansion again will feel so great. I really became a fan of his announcements beginning with Cataclysm, so this will feel like a return to form in that regard (I still miss Ben Brode's announcer voice and Mike Morhaime's geeky but heartfelt welcome speech though).

But regarding the expansion itself, I'd prefer "not just another new island", I think. New continents are fun to explore due to how unknown they are, but given how we've pretty much ran out of established locations from the lore to explore, finding a new one might feel a little less impactful this time around.

So a big world revamp is what I want, and to be able to see some favourite locations in new light. What would an updated Elwynn forest look like? How would the music of Ashenvale hit if it was rewritten, and the forest used all those WSG assets? What's it like in Feralas when there's a storm, and what does the night sky look like above Dun Morough? I'm guessing "great" on all of these.

Hopefully a lot of casual and evergreen world content comes with a revamp. More focus on fishing and gathering. Improved professions. More variety in the events we get.

I want a return of established characters and factions, but I'd also like them become a bit more stationary and "godlike" again, like in Vanilla when you could meet Tyrande and Malfurion in Darnassus. Let other characters grow with this in mind. We don't always have to use Shandris as a Night Elf questgiver. Some up and coming Sentinel is fine too.

I'd like to see more features added, simply put. A lot feels missing right now. Mage Tower, Brawler's Guild, borrowed power systems, you name it. A lot was taken from us, but not much was given to replace it. More ways to feel engaged with the expansion and my character's progress.

A second character model revamp after WoD would be much appreciated, so we have more viable face options, better hairstyles, new poses perhaps, etc. Additional voices?

I'd like less inventory clutter, and more account-wide currencies.

Lastly, I want something colourful and exciting we haven't seen before. I think a new take on the Elemental Planes could be it. This could be a feature like the Heart of Azeroth or Artifact weapons. Some type of Elemental empowerment, perhaps?

Oh, and as we take on the Void, I dearly hope Blizzard nails the story delivery for once. It's been really rough for the past few expansions. I want big, bombastic and emotional story moments, that Warcraft was once known for.

[Santandame]

I usually like Bel's content but that video, oh boy, is just full of toxic masculinity. Dragonflight is the best Expansion since Legion, and easily on par with MoP, but all he does is crying about it being not "brutal enough" and how guys would have prefered the ugly Draconids instead of the Dracthyr? WoW doesn't need to change "direction", it's already on the right track, all they need is a nostalgia bait expansion to bring back a mass of players similiar to WoD/Shadowlands (which had a huge number of new/returning players but didn't manage to retain them unlike Dragonflight).

Toxic masculinity - what on earth!? What does that have to do with Dracthyr being too slender and the game not being brutal enough. Absolutely wild take that you shouldn’t be throwing around so lightly.

[Pheraz]

Let's be honest the current stories are too much about those "old friend" stuff and every main lore char is basically super female stereotyped even the blue aspect. Nothing against anything female, not at all world would be horrible without, but in DF it's just a bit too much for a balanced feeling. And it feels too much like I'm watching a soap opera.
I really hope that the lore team manages to get away from this trend in the next xpac. Just a little bit less friendship is magic vibes

[Palapop]

Let's be honest the current stories are too much about those "old friend" stuff and every main lore char is basically super female stereotyped even the blue aspect. Nothing against anything female, not at all world would be horrible without, but in DF it's just a bit too much for a balanced feeling. And it feels too much like I'm watching a soap opera.
I really hope that the lore team manages to get away from this trend in the next xpac. Just a little bit less friendship is magic vibes

For that to happen, Blizzard has to fire "team B" (betas) devs.

They are the ones responsible for f*ckfest story in SL and DF so far.

And the poor quality world design/building overall.

It's been proven since late BFA and all the scandals that happened back then. Or that got revealed*

[CaptainV]

Toxic masculinity - what on earth!? What does that have to do with Dracthyr being too slender and the game not being brutal enough. Absolutely wild take that you shouldn’t be throwing around so lightly.

Honestly I can only agree this was a weird take to say the least using the cringe term that is toxic masuclinity in 2023, we're way past that era now.

But I will say this, honestly, it wont hurt gaming to go back to some air of masucline fantasy and warcraft is fundamentally a as Asmongold once said a game built around "big sweaty men" which frankly is fine if at least one expansion is filled with them.

In the last 3 expansions the game has been very much more focused on its female aspect leadership and character cast, tbh, I have no issue with the next expansion being a bro trip again.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

In the last 3 expansions the game has been very much more focused on its female aspect leadership and character cast, tbh, I have no issue with the next expansion being a bro trip again.

I agree with this, but sadly in current world if you're a man saying something like that, you know that someone will try to put you into "toxic masculinity" box, but fuck it.

I don't like asmongold, but i think from time to time having big sweaty men doing badass heroic stuff(doesn't even have to be only men, have some cool feisty warrior ladies go at it too), roaring and charging furiously into battles and such is cool, especially in wow like it was in the past, having this weird but cool "rockstar" grit to it.

Nowadays many things that are written seem very "soft" even they try to be more "edgy'ier" and i have to mention the writing way of having vague things happening on top of other vague scenarios that eventually will unveil even more vague story.

I feel very indifferent when it comes to DF story, but it's done better when it comes to being a little more direct than BFA and SL, but i hope next expansion actually will actually come back to some of the things they were doing in the past and actually having very direct way of storytelling, where we just go and kick some big baddies asses.

EDIT: Also wanted to add one more thing - i know they've been doing it for a long time when it comes to VA - but they should let characters talk more "normally", no crazy amount of dramatic pauses during dialogues that eventually makes whole conversation seem like they only used like 10 actual words..