The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[huth]

Wait, this picture from chronicle?

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/wo...20180328215952

I don't think they allow deeplinking.

[Woggmer]

Okay well that proves it. We're perma offing smolderon.

I really really hope this means raggy might return as his Light lord counter part from HS for the Light v void exp

Well... one of the icons that just got datamined in the recent build has the file names Ragnaros_Heart_Shadowflame and while its an icon for a trinket. I would not be surprised if...

Ragnaros returns but is infused with the Shadowflame, turning into a void variant of himself... It may even be Iridikron's plan to corrupt the Elemental Lords into void variations of themselves.

That's just one theory, don't take it as fact because even I don't know where this is going.

[Teriz]

Because they wanted to tell a different story first. Really, that's not even a remotely difficult question. Forbidden Isle showed they very much still have it in mind.

Oh? And how would the story would be any different? In both cases we go to Nazjatar (or some other undersea zone) and punch Azshara in the face.

[Nightshade711]

No, I’m saying why wouldn’t Blizzard do an Azshara/Nzoth expansion in 8.0 when they had the perfect set up for it? It makes no sense to cycle back and do a more sea focused version of BFA when you clearly didn’t want to do it in the first place.

Because blizzard (allegedly) plans expansions/stories several expansions into the future.
Maybe they didn’t do it in 8.0 because they wanted to do it elsewhere. Not that hard of a concept to grasp tbh.

[Teriz]

Because blizzard (allegedly) plans expansions/stories several expansions into the future.
Maybe they didn’t do it in 8.0 because they wanted to do it elsewhere. Not that hard of a concept to grasp tbh.

A more likely explanation is that an Azshara expansion would fall under the type of expansion that Blizzard doesn’t want to do; An expansion where the theme is too similar thoroughout.

[Mecheon]

Oh? And how would the story would be any different? In both cases we go to Nazjatar (or some other undersea zone) and punch Azshara in the face.

I mean we don't even know what we'd be doing down there

I'd personally keep Azshara for a "Previous villains we've beaten teaming up" type expansion or a "Azshara messes with the timelines to drag us back to Ancient Kalimdor so she can redo things and make her empire last eternally this time by passing future knowledge to her past self". Which of course firstly has helping the NElf resistance as time is very broken, and later ends with the Legion never showing up (Due to us breaking the whole Legion's single timeline stuff due to killing Argus) so Azshara goes to try and steal Sargeras from the Pantheon as a later raid

[huth]

Oh? And how would the story would be any different? In both cases we go to Nazjatar (or some other undersea zone) and punch Azshara in the face.

Sounds like you need to re-do Ny'alotha and freshen up your memories.

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I mean we don't even know what we'd be doing down there

I'd personally keep Azshara for a "Previous villains we've beaten teaming up" type expansion or a "Azshara messes with the timelines to drag us back to Ancient Kalimdor so she can redo things and make her empire last eternally this time by passing future knowledge to her past self". Which of course firstly has helping the NElf resistance as time is very broken, and later ends with the Legion never showing up (Due to us breaking the whole Legion's single timeline stuff due to killing Argus) so Azshara goes to try and steal Sargeras from the Pantheon as a later raid

Unlikely. She seems to have some other goal at this point.

[Teriz]

I mean we don't even know what we'd be doing down there

I'd personally keep Azshara for a "Previous villains we've beaten teaming up" type expansion or a "Azshara messes with the timelines to drag us back to Ancient Kalimdor so she can redo things and make her empire last eternally this time by passing future knowledge to her past self". Which of course firstly has helping the NElf resistance as time is very broken, and later ends with the Legion never showing up (Due to us breaking the whole Legion's single timeline stuff due to killing Argus) so Azshara goes to try and steal Sargeras from the Pantheon as a later raid

Does it really matter? Would players really get excited about fighting a villain that we handily beat only a few expansions ago? It would be like Sylvanas being the villain again after we beat her midway through Shadowlands.

[Santandame]

Does it really matter? Would players really get excited about fighting a villain that we handily beat only a few expansions ago? It would be like Sylvanas being the villain again after we beat her midway through Shadowlands.

Why are you only looking at things through lens of power levels?

Who gives a shit if we’ve beaten her? Who gives a shit about her power level? We just want a compelling story with compelling characters. Azshara has proven to be both a compelling and popular character.

Not everything needs to be about this power creep.

I imagine the players aren’t Goku, always seeking out the next strongest foe to fight in order to test their abilities.

[Mecheon]

Does it really matter? Would players really get excited about fighting a villain that we handily beat only a few expansions ago? It would be like Sylvanas being the villain again after we beat her midway through Shadowlands.

Azshara's still a popular character. It just means she doesn't need to have a fight against her, as its already established we can beat her. So she's therefore more in the 'doing background stuff and causing problems'

Which like. Is how Azshara operated before BFA so well in her wheelhouse

[Nightshade711]

Does it really matter? Would players really get excited about fighting a villain that we handily beat only a few expansions ago? It would be like Sylvanas being the villain again after we beat her midway through Shadowlands.

Which we only beat because she wanted us to.
It was her entire plan to bring us and our Heart of Azeroth to the Circle of Stars to free N’zoth.

As this thread and a lot of the community speculation shows, I think players would be excited to see Azshara return, especially if it’s with Xal’atath.

[Teriz]

Why are you only looking at things through lens of power levels?

Who gives a shit if we’ve beaten her? Who gives a shit about her power level? We just want a compelling story with compelling characters. Azshara has proven to be both a compelling and popular character..

I'm not. I'm looking at it through the lens of "Have I done this before?" Have I fought Azshara in her underwater domain and beaten her? Yes I have, so why would I want to do it again? What possibly could she offer as a villain that would make her a compelling antagonist? What can she offer us as players that's new and interesting? I say absolutely nothing, and based on how Blizzard structured BFA, I'm willing to bet that Blizzard feels the same.

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Which we only beat because she wanted us to.
It was her entire plan to bring us and our Heart of Azeroth to the Circle of Stars to free N’zoth.

And we beat her master. So why should any player be excited about beating a lackey of someone we already defeated?

As this thread and a lot of the community speculation shows, I think players would be excited to see Azshara return, especially if it’s with Xal’atath.

So essentially we're doing BFA again, just with Xal'atath taking over the role of N'Zoth? I don't think the community would be as excited as you like to believe it would be.

[Magistrate]

Can't believe that after all these years "Eye of Aszhara" will be real.

Yah its a dungeon.

[Teriz]

Azshara's still a popular character. It just means she doesn't need to have a fight against her, as its already established we can beat her. So she's therefore more in the 'doing background stuff and causing problems'

Which like. Is how Azshara operated before BFA so well in her wheelhouse

Like in Cataclysm when we ran through Throne of Tides and Vashj'ir where Azshara was an omnipresent threat?

Again, we've done this before. There's nothing new at the bottom of this well.

[Revamp Man]

Aside from destroying their physical bodies and torturing them for millenia, you mean? He quite literally hurt them. Pretty badly, too.

But he didn't destroy them
Death for them isn't death

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Does it really matter? Would players really get excited about fighting a villain that we handily beat only a few expansions ago? It would be like Sylvanas being the villain again after we beat her midway through Shadowlands.

The villain who we barely beat while empowered by a titan
Which we don't have the connection to anymore

[KOUNTERPARTS]

But he didn't destroy them
Death for them isn't death

I've wondered this.

For the Pantheon's case, Norgannon's spell saved their spirits after Sargeras mollywhopped them. If not for that spell... they would have been perma-killed...?


...but Sargeras killed Aggramar waaaaaay before the events of "Legion" and Aggramar returned twisted during the Antorus raid. Is it possible you cannot kill a titan soul so easily? Is it possible Sargeras used a similar spell to save Aggramar's soul to (at that time) save and use at a later time?

[Magistrate]

But he didn't destroy them
Death for them isn't death

They said Sargeras destroyed their bodies, which is absolutely correct. That's why he went around capturing their souls before the Legion raid. It very literally says and shows all of this. And that he was then torturing them for thousands of years to twist them into his servants.

[Ersula]

Except it isn’t. You realise that the Great Sea is literally just the sea to the west of the Eastern Kingdoms, right? And that the Forbidding, Veiled, North and South Seas are completely separate?

While I do think they will quickly embrace a Pirate expansion if they create a fun ship combat system, they one philosophy the devs have openly admitted to is the alternating between more traditional fantasy & cosmic expansions. Dragonflight was a traditional fantasy expansion, like pirates, so the next expansion will definitely be quote unquote "cosmic".

Traditional WoW Expansions: Building. Homestead. Warfare. Nature. Survival. Absolute Good versus Absolute Evil. Cataclysm. Warlords of Draenor. Battle for Azeroth.

Cosmic Wow Expansions: Gods. Aliens. Spiritual. Mental. Meditation on dark emotions & loss of identity. Mists of Pandaria. Legion. Shadowlands.

So my money's on an expansion where the Light or Void is the bad guy. Or like I hope, the Light & Void joining forces to finally take over Azeroth.

[Houle]

Well... one of the icons that just got datamined in the recent build has the file names Ragnaros_Heart_Shadowflame and while its an icon for a trinket. I would not be surprised if...

Ragnaros returns but is infused with the Shadowflame, turning into a void variant of himself... It may even be Iridikron's plan to corrupt the Elemental Lords into void variations of themselves.

That's just one theory, don't take it as fact because even I don't know where this is going.

You should read that wowhead article again - the ICONS name is Ragnaros heart, but the actual item its used for is called "Fyrakk's Tainted Rageheart" and drops from, you guessed it, Fyrakk.

[Teriz]

The villain who we barely beat while empowered by a titan
Which we don't have the connection to anymore

Which doesn't matter because if she shows up we're going to beat her again regardless. That's the problem; You can't bring back a boss and suddenly make them unbeatable, because we're ALWAYS going to beat them. So what you do is give the players NEW villains to fight that can offer you something different. Azshara was interesting in BFA because we never fought her before. That time has passed, and that same level of interest is simply gone.