The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Alanar]

I'm curious where they are going to put Amirdrassil, after it has been pulled from the Emerald Dream. Maybe we do get rid of the Sword in Silithus after all and the tree will be placed there to close the wound.

Probably just exactly where it is now, but pulled into Azeroth. That huge area next to plains. The dream map can be placed ontop of that, it lines up.

Or they teleport it to somewhere, but that seems off to me.

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Yeah I hate those wings. I was kinda excited for proper wings when the Dragonflight stuff was coming out but then no its just these piddly little things.

They look like something went wrong on birth, wiggle wiggle, but no muscle into it. Something like scary movie small hands.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

Shocked there’s no scaleface leaks yet. Or really any credible leaks in general.

Virtual ticket will be probably revealed on october 1 like last time and they usually have murlocks based on main characters from the expansion, so maybe we will get some more real info then or just something more "real" to speculate about.

Now to think of it, we don't have thrall unique murlock pet yet.

[Well Done Steak]

Hey, did everyone forget about the past Nzoth whispers at the start of DF, when we went back in time with eternus to the black empire?

That hasn't been talked about in some time and that's definitely hint at void things to come since they were completely brand new whispers for that quest.

"Deeper, deeper it's roots will reach. Welcoming our embrace"

Ding ding ding. I wonder what roots Nzoth is referencing???? How about amirdrassil????

Void expansion baby!

[micwini]

Hey, did everyone forget about the past Nzoth whispers at the start of DF, when we went back in time with eternus to the black empire?

That hasn't been talked about in some time and that's definitely hint at void things to come since they were completely brand new whispers for that quest.

"Deeper, deeper it's roots will reach. Welcoming our embrace"

Ding ding ding. I wonder what roots Nzoth is referencing???? How about amirdrassil????

Void expansion baby!

Blizzard has already confirmed they are not going to do expansions that have little variation in theme. They specifically mention Old god expansion. I think for similar reasons Void will never be its own expansion, but more like a X.3 type of thing, like Argus.

[pacotaco]

Well... one of the icons that just got datamined in the recent build has the file names Ragnaros_Heart_Shadowflame and while its an icon for a trinket. I would not be surprised if...

Ragnaros returns but is infused with the Shadowflame, turning into a void variant of himself... It may even be Iridikron's plan to corrupt the Elemental Lords into void variations of themselves.

That's just one theory, don't take it as fact because even I don't know where this is going.

Nah, it's because it's an edited version of an older icon used for the Heart of Ragnaros to add a shadowflame tint.

[Well Done Steak]

Blizzard has already confirmed they are not going to do expansions that have little variation in theme. They specifically mention Old god expansion. I think for similar reasons Void will never be its own expansion, but more like a X.3 type of thing, like Argus.

Eh sorry, not just void. Void vs light exp. Maybe with some dread lords and sire D thrown in.

There's a ton they could use. It won't be just a purple mess.

[pacotaco]

I've wondered this.

For the Pantheon's case, Norgannon's spell saved their spirits after Sargeras mollywhopped them. If not for that spell... they would have been perma-killed...?


...but Sargeras killed Aggramar waaaaaay before the events of "Legion" and Aggramar returned twisted during the Antorus raid. Is it possible you cannot kill a titan soul so easily? Is it possible Sargeras used a similar spell to save Aggramar's soul to (at that time) save and use at a later time?

If they're like demons, their body die but their souls survives. What I find weird is that it doesn't come back to the plane of Order?

[Arai]

I'm curious where they are going to put Amirdrassil, after it has been pulled from the Emerald Dream. Maybe we do get rid of the Sword in Silithus after all and the tree will be placed there to close the wound.

The Nightelfs will destroy Orgrimmar and place the tree there. It will be a bloodbath similar to Teldrassil. Since Orgrimmar is build inside cliffs and having only 3 exits, it will be easy to block them all. Everything will be set on fire, the remaining survivors that looked for shelter in lakes etc. will be executed afterwards. The tree will be born with blood and revenge. The troll settlement to the south of Orgrimmar will also be eradicated quickly after the Orgrimmar incident. The remaining survivors will move to Mulgore. If the last Horde Bastion of Kalimdor will fall is not set in stone as the Tauren have more in common with the Nightelf than the rest of the Horde. A change of allegiance of the remainers in Mulgore is an option if the pledge to destroy every last Undead is done. The preparations to attack Lordaeron are ongoing and not too soon the crusade to kill every last Undead will be starting.

[Foolicious]

I've wondered this.

For the Pantheon's case, Norgannon's spell saved their spirits after Sargeras mollywhopped them. If not for that spell... they would have been perma-killed...?


...but Sargeras killed Aggramar waaaaaay before the events of "Legion" and Aggramar returned twisted during the Antorus raid. Is it possible you cannot kill a titan soul so easily? Is it possible Sargeras used a similar spell to save Aggramar's soul to (at that time) save and use at a later time?

Aggramar died/was destroyed at the same time the other titans where. Sargeras and Aggramar fought at one point, but aggramar retreated and called the rest of the pantheon for help. Eonar was able to escape somehow(probably with elunes help) and Aggramar was simply the first to give in to sargeras corruption and torture in antorus.

[Shadowferal]

The Nightelfs will destroy Orgrimmar and place the tree there. It will be a bloodbath similar to Teldrassil. Since Orgrimmar is build inside cliffs and having only 3 exits, it will be easy to block them all. Everything will be set on fire, the remaining survivors that looked for shelter in lakes etc. will be executed afterwards. The tree will be born with blood and revenge. The troll settlement to the south of Orgrimmar will also be eradicated quickly after the Orgrimmar incident. The remaining survivors will move to Mulgore. If the last Horde Bastion of Kalimdor will fall is not set in stone as the Tauren have more in common with the Nightelf than the rest of the Horde. A change of allegiance of the remainers in Mulgore is an option if the pledge to destroy every last Undead is done. The preparations to attack Lordaeron are ongoing and not too soon the crusade to kill every last Undead will be starting.

I can only applaud... Bravo! The Nightelf in me sings!

...but I sincerely doubt Blizz has any desire to become so invested in what would take some decent storytelling to get to the denouement of your narrative. That would actually take...well, work.

[Teriz]

Archimonde x2, Kil’jaeden x2.
Kel’thuzad x3.
Technically Sylvanas x2.
Technically Onyxia x3
Nefarian x2
And…
Ragnaros x2, who we’re seeing get name dropped and discussed returning (again) in this very thread.

The list goes on with historical examples that disprove your statement.

As the top of raids? In other words the final boss more than once? The only ones I’m aware of that did that were Kil’Jadeen and Archimonde, but those were different cases.

Btw, I didn’t say that Blizzard had never done that, I said that I don’t see them doing that for Azshara, because she simply doesn’t have that mystique anymore because we stomped her and the big bad she was working for. Fighting her again would be a rerun of fighting her in BFA and be rather pointless.

[Nymrohd]

Aggramar died/was destroyed at the same time the other titans where. Sargeras and Aggramar fought at one point, but aggramar retreated and called the rest of the pantheon for help. Eonar was able to escape somehow(probably with elunes help) and Aggramar was simply the first to give in to sargeras corruption and torture in antorus.

I think the failure there was that we got the Chronicle's story yet we never found how the Titans got captured. Imagine if Legion had a secondary plot about Sargeras' forces trying to capture the sparks of the Titans that arrived on Azeroth. Heck maybe we could have found Wrathion chained somewhere in Antorus in that he was used to get the last parts of Aman'thul (which would explain why he was missing) and part of the plot for Stormheim would be the Legion trying to bait Odyn so they can capture him for the same reason.

I honestly would rather not have secondary sources at all if they are going to be contrasted. It's telling that I fully expect that the actual reasons behind the Incarnates' anger will only be available in the novel.

[huth]

I think the failure there was that we got the Chronicle's story yet we never found how the Titans got captured. Imagine if Legion had a secondary plot about Sargeras' forces trying to capture the sparks of the Titans that arrived on Azeroth. Heck maybe we could have found Wrathion chained somewhere in Antorus in that he was used to get the last parts of Aman'thul (which would explain why he was missing) and part of the plot for Stormheim would be the Legion trying to bait Odyn so they can capture him for the same reason.

I honestly would rather not have secondary sources at all if they are going to be contrasted. It's telling that I fully expect that the actual reasons behind the Incarnates' anger will only be available in the novel.

What are you talking about? It's not difficult to puzzle together from the clues we have that he grabbed them almost immediately after he destroyed their bodies, interrupting Norgannons plan to transfer to the Keepers on Azeroth.

By the time Wrathion is born, Aman'thul has been tortured for thousands of years. That wouldn't make any sense.

[Nymrohd]

What are you talking about? It's not difficult to puzzle together from the clues we have that he grabbed them almost immediately after he destroyed their bodies, interrupting Norgannons plan to transfer to the Keepers on Azeroth.

By the time Wrathion is born, Aman'thul has been tortured for thousands of years. That wouldn't make any sense.

Do we know they have been tortured for that long? I guess I'll have to check the quotes from the encounter again. It could be that they were only captured recently. The Chronicle meanwhile tells us they escaped and came to Azeroth only the Keepers could not exactly contain them and they kind of fizzled out with most of the Keepers not even figuring out what happened.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Coven_of_Shivarra

I reread the quotes and nothing about them suggests they have been at this for millenia

[huth]

Do we know they have been tortured for that long? I guess I'll have to check the quotes from the encounter again. It could be that they were only captured recently. The Chronicle meanwhile tells us they escaped and came to Azeroth only the Keepers could not exactly contain them and they kind of fizzled out with most of the Keepers not even figuring out what happened.

Well, Sargeras probably didn't just leave them sitting in a jar for the time. When they were captured isn't really in question.

[Nymrohd]

Well, Sargeras probably didn't just leave them sitting in a jar for the time. When they were captured isn't really in question.

How is it not in question? We explicitly know they escaped his grasp at that moment. We do not know when or how they were captured. Did they remain on Azeroth? Did they slowly drift in space back to their homeworlds or to sanctuaries like Elunaria? None of that is known. The part of them that we absolutely do know remained is what Lei Shen seized from Ra'den and then was acquired by us for Wrathion.

[huth]

How is it not in question? We explicitly know they escaped his grasp at that moment. We do not know when or how they were captured. Did they remain on Azeroth? Did they slowly drift in space back to their homeworlds or to sanctuaries like Elunaria? None of that is known. The part of them that we absolutely do know remained is what Lei Shen seized from Ra'den and then was acquired by us for Wrathion.

Which should still be in Wrathion's possession as of today, and as such, cannot be part of this.

[Nymrohd]

Which should still be in Wrathion's possession as of today, and as such, cannot be part of this.

Sure, but that is because the Coven of Shivarra encounter just doesn't work well with what we learn in the Chronicle about Norgannon somehow salvaging the Titan souls. And again, it doesn't explain how Sargeras got them. I am not saying he shouldn't be able to get them but it'd be nice to learn how, where and when.

Anyway, this is going off topic.

[Santandame]

Kind of. Her big opportunity was in BFA, and Blizzard made her the top of a raid. You don't get more exposure than that. It's silly to believe that they'll make her top of a raid again.

Just like Ragnaros, Nefarian, Kel’thuzad, Archimonde, Illidan, Kil’jaeden, Deathwing were all used as the top of their own raids and never used in major roles or as villains and raid bosses again in the future, right?

All of them, KT and Illidan (actually used as the poster child and main character of an entire expansion instead so an even bigger role) aside were used again at the top of a raid.

- Ragnaros: MC/Firelands
- Nefarian: BWL/BWD
- Archimonde: Battle for Hyjal/Hellfire Citadel
- Kil’jaeden: Sunwell/Tomb of Sargeras

Deathwing was used again as penultimate raid boss and a major figure in Dragonflight. Archimonde was used as the main overarching antagonist of an expansion. Kil’jaeden the secondary antagonist and the most immediate of an expansion. Ragnaros used as the secondary antagonist also of an expansion.

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@Teriz I’m really struggling to follow how you think Azshara as an expansion boss, with all the possibilities a character such as her would undoubtedly have, would be underwhelming yet you’ve advocated for Gallywix in an azerite mech suit as the end boss for an Undermine expansion.

The most powerful arcane user in Azeroth’s history who allowed us to beat her previously. A character with links to presumably the Void Lords currently, as well as Sargeras vs. a character that would most definitely be a joke to the player characters powered by a substance we saw plenty of in BfA whilst dealing with similarly powered up constructs.

Make it make sense.

[Revamp Man]

Merely a setback...

But it doesn't matter
Oh no a fated season with every raid and buyable gear THE HORROR