The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Hitei]

Especially the Maraudon. That place YELLS "adventoure, explorstion, danger" to you once you enter the instance.

Yeah, must be all those scary flower mobs.

[Nymrohd]

I would be up for Undermine, I would prefer a more comprehensive Underdark expansion that includes more areas. So ofc Undermine but also Hyjal Barrows, Azjol'Nerub and potentially other places like an expanded Terramok, the Oracle Caverns, Blackrock Mountain underground, maybe the hives beneath Silithus (with the sword and all the Azerite there) and ofc some Titan facility leading to the World Soul itself. The premise could be a race against the Harbinger who is trying to get to the physical location of the World Soul. You could have the capital of the expansion be in Kezan or you could have us reach the Titan facility and instead be protecting it from Xal or Azshara or whoever it might be trying to come for the Soul.

[Hitei]

I would be up for Undermine, I would prefer a more comprehensive Underdark expansion that includes more areas. So ofc Undermine but also Hyjal Barrows, Azjol'Nerub and potentially other places like an expanded Terramok, the Oracle Caverns, Blackrock Mountain underground, maybe the hives beneath Silithus (with the sword and all the Azerite there) and ofc some Titan facility leading to the World Soul itself. The premise could be a race against the Harbinger who is trying to get to the physical location of the World Soul. You could have the capital of the expansion be in Kezan or you could have us reach the Titan facility and instead be protecting it from Xal or Azshara or whoever it might be trying to come for the Soul.

An "Undermine expansion" is 100% never going to just be (or even mainly be) Undermine. It'd be one zone at best, with the capital built into a subsection of it much like Bolarus' actual functional city part was just the area surrounding the docks.

[Worldshaper]

Yeah I'm not sure that damage control is going to help...thematically I cant possibly see this recapturing lapsed players. They need something along the lines of Legion or WoD(thematically) thats very core "Warcraft" and that everyone can kind of resonate with.

It should be mentioned that I think a world revamp could happen even if we go into an underground region for the expansion.

I also think a bit like Bellular does, that what old school Warcraft players miss is something cool and easy to get into. Watching its cinematics and cutscenes, and then playing the game, should get you pumped. "For the Horde," and all that.

WoD, Legion and BfA all had amazing cinematics that helped bring players in. Doesn't have to showcase a human in Elwynn forest for it to fee llike Warcraft.

For example, the new expansion could be hyped up with a cinematic that echoes the Cataclysm cinematic a little bit. Children of the First Flesh unearth something deep underground. We get a glimpse of a vast underground cave, and perhaps the "Ancient One" being awakened? Maybe the Harbinger narrates it. This cinematic focuses on the impending danger, the doom and gloom. Azeroth is in danger like never before.

Then they could give us a second cinematic that focuses on the feature that is the World Revamp. Rather than it being the theme of the expansion, it might be something they patch in after a while. This cinematic emphasises the fact that Azeroth's world-soul is waking up and healing (although also at risk of being taken by the Void, of course). So we'll see the world renewed.

[Nymrohd]

It should be mentioned that I think a world revamp could happen even if we go into an underground region for the expansion.

I also think a bit like Bellular does, that what old school Warcraft players miss is something cool and easy to get into. Watching its cinematics and cutscenes, and then playing the game, should get you pumped. "For the Horde," and all that.

WoD, Legion and BfA all had amazing cinematics that helped bring players in. Doesn't have to showcase a human in Elwynn forest for it to fee llike Warcraft.

For example, the new expansion could be hyped up with a cinematic that echoes the Cataclysm cinematic a little bit. Children of the First Flesh unearth something deep underground. We get a glimpse of a vast underground cave, and perhaps the "Ancient One" being awakened? This cinematic focuses on the impending danger, the doom and gloom. Azeroth is in danger like never before.

Then they could give us a second cinematic that focuses on the feature that is the World Revamp. Rather than it being the theme of the expansion, it might be something they patch in after a while. This cinematic emphasises the fact that Azeroth's world-soul is waking up and healing (although also at risk of being taken by the Void, of course). So we'll see the world renewed.

An extensive underdark expansion can also "join" the world together to some extent. If you have caverns from Hyjal to Silithus to Kezan to Blackrock to Northrend all joined together by a central zone at the World Soul. Imagine diving with your flying mount into an opening close to the sword, flying all the way down to the core and then going back up and exiting into Blackrock Mountain through a lava shaft.

[Worldshaper]

An extensive underdark expansion can also "join" the world together to some extent. If you have caverns from Hyjal to Silithus to Kezan to Blackrock to Northrend all joined together by a central zone at the World Soul. Imagine diving with your flying mount into an opening close to the sword, flying all the way down to the core and then going back up and exiting into Blackrock Mountain through a lava shaft.

That'd be amazing.

[justwatching]

It should be mentioned that I think a world revamp could happen even if we go into an underground region for the expansion.

I also think a bit like Bellular does, that what old school Warcraft players miss is something cool and easy to get into. Watching its cinematics and cutscenes, and then playing the game, should get you pumped. "For the Horde," and all that.

WoD, Legion and BfA all had amazing cinematics that helped bring players in. Doesn't have to showcase a human in Elwynn forest for it to fee llike Warcraft.

For example, the new expansion could be hyped up with a cinematic that echoes the Cataclysm cinematic a little bit. Children of the First Flesh unearth something deep underground. We get a glimpse of a vast underground cave, and perhaps the "Ancient One" being awakened? Maybe the Harbinger narrates it. This cinematic focuses on the impending danger, the doom and gloom. Azeroth is in danger like never before.

Then they could give us a second cinematic that focuses on the feature that is the World Revamp. Rather than it being the theme of the expansion, it might be something they patch in after a while. This cinematic emphasises the fact that Azeroth's world-soul is waking up and healing (although also at risk of being taken by the Void, of course). So we'll see the world renewed.

You are absolutely right that the rule of cool is important.

That being said I'm not sure if the current wow team can deliver on that..and if I'm going to be honest they haven't really since Legion. So when I think of an Undermine expansion from this team I think of 10.1 and I cant possibly see that being attractive to lapsed players.

Now maybe you are correct and its a combination of revamp + undermine zones and maybe that will do but I remain skeptical that they can execute that. In any case they need big changes and lots of fan service to make lapsed players remember why they love Warcraft and you are right that it has to start with the cinematic.

[Nymrohd]

That being said I'm not sure if the current wow team can deliver on that..and if I'm going to be honest they haven't really since Legion.

BfA delivered Rule of Cool in spades. I mean, Jaina signalling the fleet? That C'thrax invading Dazar'alor? Anything Azshara did?

[Woggmer]

An "Undermine expansion" is 100% never going to just be (or even mainly be) Undermine. It'd be one zone at best, with the capital built into a subsection of it much like Bolarus' actual functional city part was just the area surrounding the docks.

The whole idea the Undermine being a sandbox city the size of a continent could work if it was similar to something like Jak II (and Jak III)'s Haven City or even Bullworth from Bully rather than something like in Grand Theft Auto 5.

The idea of a city being the size of a whole expansion continent however is something that's never been done before in WoW. Having different sections of the city being quest areas with different plots... like one end of the city is a run-down dilapidated area that's been trashed by various gangs at war with each other, another section is a more high-end part of the city but corrupt moguls and trade princes run this area and will snuff out any competition that gets in their way.

And not every part of the city is liveable.. there's one part of the city where they test out the latest bombs and explosive technology resulting in mad bomber type goblins trying to test their products on real humanoids... or have one section of the city being a former residential zone turned into a quarantined radioactive wasteland where the goblins dump all their hazardous waste from the city. This leads to wild-life pouring in from the city like Troggs and Kobolds.

And finally the real "major city" aspect is a large plaza full of shops and vendors. The gimmick being that Gallywix owns every shop, but there is a growing group of goblins trying to topple his monopoly, which is how the factions come into play.

Now whether Blizzard can execute it well or even if they intend to go that route is a different matter all together, but it is possible.

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BfA delivered Rule of Cool in spades. I mean, Jaina signalling the fleet? That C'thrax invading Dazar'alor? Anything Azshara did?

What about the Tidestone holding back all the water around Nazjatar?

[justwatching]

BfA delivered Rule of Cool in spades. I mean, Jaina signalling the fleet? That C'thrax invading Dazar'alor? Anything Azshara did?

Thinking about it you are right.

[Worldshaper]

I don't think Undermine would be the main setting, btw. It could be an entrypoint or something we explore as a singular zone, but the "underworld" would have to be a lot deeper, bigger, and less themed around Goblins.

I could maybe see the Harbinger using the Wound as her entryway, while we negotiate a deal with the Goblins of Kezan to enter via the Undermine. So the launch scenario might take place there.

1. We catch word of what the Harbinger has done.
2. We go to Gadgetzan and catch a ship to Kezan.
3. We enter the Undermine and resolve a few issues for the Goblin Trade Prince in charge. Maybe there are strange creatures crawling out from the deeper mine shafts.
4. Working with the Goblins (and probably the Gnomes as well), we create some type of machine which lets us dig deep into Azeroth.
5. We discover the underworld, where the expansion proper takes place.

BTW, looking back it is kind of interesting that the RAF rewards is a Goblin set these days. Players recruiting old friends back to WoW would gain a very appropriate set if we're going underground.

[Nymrohd]

What about the Tidestone holding back all the water around Nazjatar?

As I said, everything Azshara did

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Thinking about it you are right.

If anything it was all Rule of Cool and no logic behind it.

[Luck4]

World Revamp + Undermine as the endgame zone = Win/Win

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Jokes aside, I hope Blizzard isn't dumb enough to make a fully Underground (or Underwater) expansion... like FR.

Avaloren would be 100 times better even with no lore... Hell, I would say even Shadowlands' approach again would be better.

I can live without a World Revamp again, but I doubt I would endure two huge disappointments.

[Worldshaper]

So, it looks increasingly likely that this is our expansion. Neat.

The Harbinger and Iridikron goes below the earth to mess with the world-soul and perhaps awaken something ancient.

Players venture underground to discover a whole new world. Maybe involving Undermine, but also possibly something new entirely.

Thrall becomes the expansion's guide and mentor figure, like Khadgar was when we faced the Burning Legion. Probably involving the well-being of the world, the elements, etc.

A world revamp is possible but not guaranteed at this moment. It would make sense to happen anywhere from November 24th, 2024, to 12.0 in 2026.

[Nymrohd]

I don't think Undermine would be the main setting, btw. It could be an entrypoint or something we explore as a singular zone, but the "underworld" would have to be a lot deeper, bigger, and less themed around Goblins.

I could maybe see the Harbinger using the Wound as her entryway, while we negotiate a deal with the Goblins of Kezan to enter via the Undermine. So the launch scenario might take place there.

1. We catch word of what the Harbinger has done.
2. We go to Gadgetzan and catch a ship to Kezan.
3. We enter the Undermine and resolve a few issues for the Goblin Trade Prince in charge. Maybe there are strange creatures crawling out from the deeper mine shafts.
4. Working with the Goblins (and probably the Gnomes as well), we create some type of machine which lets us dig deep into Azeroth.
5. We discover the underworld, where the expansion proper takes place.

BTW, looking back it is kind of interesting that the RAF rewards is a Goblin set these days. Players recruiting old friends back to WoW would gain a very appropriate set if we're going underground.

I'd just have Tyr send us there. That's what he is here for.

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Jokes aside, I hope Blizzard isn't dumb enough to make a fully Underground (or Underwater) expansion... like FR.

Can I ask why you think a fully underground expansion would be dump?

[Mecheon]

Jokes aside, I hope Blizzard isn't dumb enough to make a fully Underground (or Underwater) expansion... like FR.

Avaloren would be 100 times better even with no lore... Hell, I would say even Shadowlands' approach again would be better.

I can live without a World Revamp again, but I doubt I would endure two huge disappointments.

I'd argue its all in the execution but I could see it working. "Underground" doesn't just mean caves, if you have a big enough area that just haves caves over it (Like Deepholme) it'll basically be an enviroment in of itself. Heck, we're limited by ceilings at the moment, just slap a cave roof on top of what we already have and have a giant cave like that. Lost world enviroments are a bit of a widespread thing for a reason and there's heaps of ways to make 'underground' interesting. Crystals, weird minerals, underground oceans lit by thousands of gems on the ceiling, Titan installations, Nerubian empire stuff, the endless flesh of a giant monster burried eternally, plenty of stuff to dig through and tie into existing stuff

Mind I remain completely 'eh' on the sheer concept of a revamp to the point any new stuff an idea presents is what interests me, and I don't think a revamp is the sure 'getting people who've gone from the game' win folks say it is

[Worldshaper]

World Revamp + Undermine as the endgame zone = Win/Win

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Jokes aside, I hope Blizzard isn't dumb enough to make a fully Underground (or Underwater) expansion... like FR.

Avaloren would be 100 times better even with no lore... Hell, I would say even Shadowlands' approach again would be better.

I can live without a World Revamp again, but I doubt I would endure two huge disappointments.

As others have said, underground doesn't have to feel like it's underground. You might only think a lot about it when you're travelling there.

The visual they should be going for is a vast area with a roof you can barely detect, because it looks like the sky. Whether that's because of a lot of minerals and gemstones, such as Azerite, or magic, or technology, remains to be seen. There should be trees and lakes and rivers, just as up above. But obviously slightly different. Maybe there's a slight shimmer coming from the trees, because they're infused with Azerite or something.

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I'd just have Tyr send us there. That's what he is here for.

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I agree Tyr's involvement seems likely. Especially if Uldaz is down below, and key to our success.

I wouldn't even rule out that Avaloren is down there, but that might be a stretch. The Children of the First Flesh could be seen as Heretics by Odyn, and if there really is a large underground sea, then that would explain why Avaloren isn't on "our shores" as the text mentioned.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

Idea of Underground expansion after zaralek patch just makes me feel like puking.

Still, until actual some facts or datamined stuff, real leaks happen i wouldn't give much thought to what towelliee says, dude is just f'n with you all.

I was ok with him but after i saw this guy yelling "one of us" on twitter to VP Mike Ybarra, yeah he might know something since he's a great ass kisser, but still in my opinion dude is just playing with you like with dolls.

[Nymrohd]

I'd argue its all in the execution but I could see it working. "Underground" doesn't just mean caves, if you have a big enough area that just haves caves over it (Like Deepholme) it'll basically be an enviroment in of itself. Heck, we're limited by ceilings at the moment, just slap a cave roof on top of what we already have and have a giant cave like that. Lost world enviroments are a bit of a widespread thing for a reason and there's heaps of ways to make 'underground' interesting. Crystals, weird minerals, underground oceans lit by thousands of gems on the ceiling, Titan installations, Nerubian empire stuff, the endless flesh of a giant monster burried eternally, plenty of stuff to dig through and tie into existing stuff

Mind I remain completely 'eh' on the sheer concept of a revamp to the point any new stuff an idea presents is what interests me, and I don't think a revamp is the sure 'getting people who've gone from the game' win folks say it is

Like, imagine a hollow world feel in a flying only zone at the core of the world. The World Soul is at the middle illuminating the entire area brightly and Titan facilities are orbitting the area. The ground exposed to the light of Azeroth's soul is covered by a vibrant forest. You effectively have a skybox (so as to create the illusion of size) of an endless forest at all directions and the playable part are the titan facilities. You can get there by diving with your flying mount from the surrounding underground zones and the transition has a small "forced" movement part where you are breaking through the forest canopy and are deposited in the air above the world soul.

[Worldshaper]

Underground expansion after zaralek patch just makes me feel like puking.

Still, until actual some facts or datamined stuff, real leaks happen i wouldn't give much thought to what towelliee says, dude is just f'n with you all.

I was ok with him but after i saw this guy yelling "one of us" on twitter to VP Mike Ybarra, yeah he might know something since he's a great ass kisser, but still in my opinion dude is just playing with you like with dolls.

The dude didn't start the idea of an underground expansion. There has been a lot of speculation and "leaks" regarding the idea of going below the ground, for example using the undermine.

It's also pretty much suggested by the current lore if you pay attention.

• The Harbinger wants the world-soul - where is that? In the planet's core.
• Iridikron is her lackey, and what is his element? Earth.
• Thrall is on the poster for BlizzCon, and what is he? World Shaman and (at least former) Earth-warder.
• We've run out of new continents to visit on Azeroth, and supposedly traveling with the pirates to the other side of the world isn't happening in this expansion.
• The story suggest a major Void showdown is coming up next, and the Harbinger is gathering powerful essences for something. What for? Resurrect some ancient monstrosity perhaps?
• The earthen of Khaz Algar is one of the major hints for future lore, and the Titan facility Uldaz sounds pretty dwafish. This fits with the book 'A Song of the Depths', where it is mentioned that the Harbinger has gathered the Children of the First Flesh, that are now toiling below. Why would this even be mentioned in a Dragonflight prophecy involving the current story, unless it had something to do with her plans?