The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Cheezits]

He got the timing for the 10.2 announcement wrong.

I think he accurately said it was the Thursday after patch release.

[Le Conceptuel]

I think he accurately said it was the Thursday after patch release.

Either way, definitely not as substantial as an expansion theme. This all seems more like the sort of thing a streamer would be in on than an expansion, so it casts a bit of doubt if this is really his level of clearance.

[Nibelheimy]

I distinctively remember Teriz saying that the light bound expansion was most likely next due to all the evidence, clues and foreshadowing the game is giving us, so I'm sure he won't go back on that claim. Although it would be kinda sad if a underground expansion with an undermine ciry/zone finally came and weeks prior he was absolute with it being Yrel. After alll these years of tinker speculation that would be madness. This is not a post trying to insult, it would just genuinely be unfortunate.

Thrall means many things. Although he could be related to an underground zone/goblins in general (he brought them into the horde) he's also just a main face of warcraft, and when you see him you think of 10 or 20 other things before you think of underground, this is true.

Claiming the dragons are the same now as they've always been is also madness. The dragons appearing more human than dragon both physically and emotionally is a very common complaint about the feel of this expansion. An incredible amount of people share this opinion, there is a different feel, and for all of dragonflights successes. None bar 1 are characters, lore and storyline. (the blue dragonflights quests are good, they're not amazing - if blue dragonflight fans are happy with getting just that as development on a dragon focused expansion, more power to you) I'm seeing a lot of inferring that not sharing the idea that dragonflight is amazing is some sort of toxic masculinity mindset. That is reductive and ignorant of the problems the expansion and wow is actively facing.

In truth, Dragonflights content cadence is the best that getting content has ever been. Story development and characters however, is off. If the expansion is indeed a 'palette cleanser' ' that's fine, but as much as I'm flying around enjoying the content itself, I hard fast click cancel world quest dialog and frankly couldn't care what happens to 90% of characters rn in the setting.

[micwini]

I think he accurately said it was the Thursday after patch release.

He hinted "sept 5 is a good date" and it was announced on sept 7.

[Teriz]

Undermine is more Goblin themed than Thrall with the earth element
I don't agree with you but everyone has their own point of view

If I wanted to be as disingenuous as you are I would say the same thing about Illidan, his return was not necessarily indicative of the return of the Legion...
Do you see how stupid this kind of reasoning is? Well I won't venture further into this area with you because that's not the subject

The only reason Blizzard would bring Illidan back to life would be for a Legion invasion. Also his return pretty much assured a Demon Hunter class. This is why Illidan appears on the cover of the expansion. Him being on the key art pre-announcement would be giving the game away. In this case, a likely scenario is Thrall in the key art and Gazlowe on the expansion cover (if Undermine is the expansion). As an aside, Thrall and Gazlowe go pretty far back, having been created by Blizzard at around the same time.

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I distinctively remember Teriz saying that the light bound expansion was most likely next due to all the evidence, clues and foreshadowing the game is giving us, so I'm sure he won't go back on that claim. Although it would be kinda sad if an underground expansion with an undermine ciry/zone finally came and weeks prior he was absolute with it being Yrel. After alll these years of tinker speculation that would be madness. This is not a post trying to insult, it would just genuinely be unfortunate.

Well once again this is ALL speculation and nothing is 100%. I would argue that a Lightbound expansion is still the most likely, but you really can't ignore the evidence for an Undermine expansion either. The wild thing is that Thrall fits in both areas in different ways, which I find to be rather interesting. If you twisted my arm, I would say the safe bet is Yrel. However, Toweliee is making some pretty bold statements that point in a different direction, and as I stated that mecha kobold, goblin-centric RAF stuff from March, and the Tanaris wasteland set is just weirdly themed material unless you're hinting at an Undermine expansion.

Thrall means many things. Although he could be related to an underground zone/goblins in general (he brought them into the horde) he's also just a main face of warcraft, and when you see him you think of 10 or 20 other things before you think of underground, this is true.

I agree.

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Either way, definitely not as substantial as an expansion theme. This all seems more like the sort of thing a streamer would be in on than an expansion, so it casts a bit of doubt if this is really his level of clearance.

Unless Blizzard gave him permission to do it. Blizzard has given influencers information about their future releases before. This is especially true of Hearthstone streamers.

[Le Conceptuel]

Unless Blizzard gave him permission to do it.

I wouldn't be too surprised if they're deliberately playing with leakers now, since they're 100% letting some information get through to build up hype, but I think using a prominent streamer and such obvious cues as pictures of sprawling caves seems too obvious. Mind you, I get why one would speculate it's an underground expansion after Zaralek perfectly built it up, but I'm not inclined to trust it only on the basis of Towelliee's word.

[Le Conceptuel]

I distinctively remember Teriz saying that the light bound expansion was most likely next due to all the evidence, clues and foreshadowing the game is giving us, so I'm sure he won't go back on that claim. Although it would be kinda sad if a underground expansion with an undermine ciry/zone finally came and weeks prior he was absolute with it being Yrel. After alll these years of tinker speculation that would be madness. This is not a post trying to insult, it would just genuinely be unfortunate.

Honestly, I maintain this and will die on this hill: he's right that tinkers are perpetually a reasonable choice for the next class. They are a class that's been in the lore for a while and that would be pretty thematically distinct. The only real impediments are that (1) there's a significant opportunity cost to every new class, so every new class has to be weighed against and deemed more interesting than every possible competitor, and (2) every new class has to be thematically consistent with the expansion it's supposed to sell us on, and it's difficult to imagine any plausible expansion other than a world revamp or maybe a titan-centric expansion that tinkers would suit.

I'm extremely skeptical of an Undermine expansion, though. It's a bit thematically-alienating on its face and sounds a bit aesthetically-unpleasant. While goblins are very fun in the right doses, having too much of them all the time may get a little grating. While the size of the Undermine isn't much of an impediment, as Dragonflight was made effectively from whole cloth and BfA turned two islands into mini-continents, I think it's still a bit conceptually-limiting on its face. While Blizzard could make up anything on the spot to justify it, it still feels a bit difficult to buy entirely.

[Nebron]

That's interesting, because this popped up a few days ago for Warcraft Rumble;



Mecha Kobolds, which I thought was rather strange, but its not so strange if we're talking about Kobolds in Undermine.

And if you're reading into something Towelliee says as legit, well, he also posted this cave around the same time

[Le Conceptuel]

Mecha Kobolds, which I thought was rather strange, but its not so strange if we're talking about Kobolds in Undermine.

Not an awful correlation, though I'm still skeptical that the guy has information on an expansion.

[Teriz]

Not an awful correlation, though I'm still skeptical that the guy has any information at all.

Also this was datamined from 10.2 last week;



And this was RAF rewards from March;



https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com...cruit-a-friend

Which is a whole lot of Goblin stuff for some reason.

Hey, it could be nothing, but it could be something. We'll know soon enough.

[Le Conceptuel]

Alsol this was datamined from 10.2 last week;



And this was RAF rewards from March;

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com...cruit-a-friend

Which is a whole lot of Goblin stuff for some reason.

Hey, it could be nothing, but it could be something. We'll know soon enough.

I'm not going to lie, I did forget about this. While I'm skeptical of Undermine on its face, this definitely is a strangely-consistent focus on goblins. I'm more inclined to think they'll play a substantial role in some other kind of expansion, though. If this is the case, as I said, it may still be a realistic avenue for your ideal class.

[Fahrad Wagner]

Also this was datamined from 10.2 last week;



And this was RAF rewards from March;



https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com...cruit-a-friend

Which is a whole lot of Goblin stuff for some reason.

Hey, it could be nothing, but it could be something. We'll know soon enough.

I was thinking the same... could we be having the fabled Undermine x Tinkers expansion?

[Le Conceptuel]

I was thinking the same... could we be having the fabled Undermine x Tinkers expansion?

If it is, that would make for quite possibly the most humbling experience I think any of us have had in our lives. I almost want to see it happen just to see the chaos that would ensue with us all taking the L in front of Teriz.

[Sondrelk]

I'm not going to lie, I did forget about this. While I'm skeptical of Undermine on its face, this definitely is a strangely-consistent focus on goblins. I'm more inclined to think they'll play a substantial role in some other kind of expansion, though. If this is the case, as I said, it may still be a realistic avenue for your ideal class.

Or, as I have pointed out before. Unless this is from the Blizzcon event or the next expansion special edition. Why would Blizzard take a great transmog perfect for the next expansion and give it to player off-hand?

Besides, this is hardly the only armor set. We also have the waveborne diplomat set, the Nelf warden set. And from previous expansions the Phoenix set and the astral set.

[Marlamin]

Also this was datamined from 10.2 last week;

Loving the Mad Max/Wild West vibe this has going on.

[Le Conceptuel]

Besides, this is hardly the only armor set. We also have the waveborne diplomat set, the Nelf warden set. And from previous expansions the Phoenix set and the astral set.

The diplomat definitely feels like it's for something to do with the next expansion to me, though that doesn't strictly preclude the goblins having some role. Maybe the Bilgewater trade fleet oversees the colonial effort for the Horde? They are supposed to be something of a naval power, and they would have an interest in exploiting a new land.

Still inclined to guess that we're not going to see Undermine front-and-center, though, because I figure they'd sell the pet and mount with the Special Edition or as pre-order bonuses if the central location were Undermine. If we're going to see a lot of goblins, but they're not going to be central to the expansion, then that would arguably line up with this new influx of assets combined with them being dumped on a promotional event before the expansion. Wouldn't be too surprised if the transmog set is a Special Edition reward, though.

[Ersula]

Bard still seems like a stretch to me. I cannot think of any big WoW heroes that embody the Bard theme, especially not in a way that evokes the DnD Bard that I think people imagine.
Even Evokers are more about stretching the definition of a Dragon in order to make them playable than it is about Evokers having a long and stories history in WoW.

The Key art for Dragonflight did not feature an Evoker. Between Blight Boar & Elite Tauren Chieftan, and Hearthstone made an entire universe of Bard WoW characters, they have plenty to work from.

I've already told someone else. That guy looks like a hipster, not a Highborne

He's not supposed to be a Highborne. He's just a kid night elf who was raised in Teldrassil after they decriminalized mages. Besides that night elves were already the first to describe Priestesses of Elune have to train how to be arcanists before they learn to be priests.

[Murlocos]

Everyone is humans. Just a different shade. Take the recent Night Elf heritage quest for example. Lysander, a 20 year old male night elf who we're stuck with, who talks about his feelings. They have tons of races to choose from to tell a story like this, but instead they choose the race that lives for thousands of years. It's literally a human with a different size ears and different shade of skin at this point. Not to mention the preachy "tradition changing" lesson that felt so forced throughout this quest.

I missed the WC3 talk earlier and my brain is covid-fried so I'm going to struggle to be coherent here, but forced preachiness might be my biggest complaint with something as broad as the tone of the story. Was MoP very subtle in its theme? Not really. Neither was WC3, absolutely. Where they succeeded is that they felt like stories first and foremost, and not like they were trying to tell a lesson to the audience above all else. Villains would get the upper hand at points. Bad things would happen to good people.

The new writing feels like it's trying to lecture the audience first and then tell a story later. I think this is why the Murozond anti-climax is so frustrating: something long foreshadowed just gets fizzled out because it would make Chromie feel bad, and Chromie can't fail or feel bad because she's a good guy, and the good guys can't lose or have real setbacks because that would... send the wrong message to the audience? Lysander is another example where something in the back of your brain immediately tells you "this guy is going to do absolutely nothing wrong and is going to tell the audience exactly what they should be thinking". It's so wooden and unsubtle that you struggle to even take it seriously as a fictional story, at times it borders on feeling like someone is trying to write with their toddler as the target audience.

The Shandris/Voss writing in 10.2 strikes me the same way. There is no buildup to that reconciliation; Shandris apologizes multiple times to Voss about how mean the other night elves are being to her. Voss is perfect and infallible the entire questline, she is only nice and thoughtful and pleasant. Shandris seems to lash out at Voss, but don't worry, she's just possessed by a spirit. She would never truly harbor that kind of resentment because that would send a Bad Message to the Audience, and we can't have that during Danuser's unearned redemption arc instead of sending any other Horde race here. The questline ends with Voss lecturing Shandris and some dryads, who all look away with embarrassment at themselves or accept her words without question.

[Teriz]

I was thinking the same... could we be having the fabled Undermine x Tinkers expansion?

Well keep in mind, Toweliee didn't say specifically that it's Undermine, he only hinted at it being underground, which could be anything really. Undermine is simply the most likely location given its history and lore. Blizzard had plans to bring it in as a continent in vanilla, even having it visible on the map of Azeroth in vanilla opening cinematic;



That's not something you just dump and forget about.

[Luck4]

Let’s be totally honest we all know deep down whether want to admit it or not that next expansion is Avaloren or the other side of Azeroth with no more than 5 zones at max.

I need to be honest...

After the most recent hints/information(hoax), Avaloren or the Other Side of Azeroth setting doesn't feel so bad after all... which kinda sucks.