The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Sondrelk]

Mhm. I guess it would depend if there's another way to get inside the Undermine, because the volcano in Kezan destroyed Bilgewater Port.. and we don't know how much of the city is destroyed or intact from the Cataclysm.

The Motherlode dungeon in BfA was supposedly set on Kezan, so we know that the island is at least partially inhabitable.

[Cheezits]

Blizzard writing anything pro-union would be ironic. I wonder if the writers are trying to slip something through.

Edit: misread. Sounds like you mean that they'd form a conglomerate, not that they'd unionize. I don't like the implications of that. Feels like monopolist propaganda unless the end result is their economy stagnating and products becoming garbage due to a lack of competition.

More thinking that a "we need to unite the goblin clans" fits into standard MMO campaign structure over anything IRL.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Man I would hate that. Im getting really annoyed by current writers infusing current real world political trends into the game lore. It's the most immersive breaking thing they have done the last few expansions.

I can't tell if you're reading his use of "unionization" as referring to actual unionization or all the cartels merging. I dislike the idea of the cartels merging, but I think having some of them actually have unions would be an interesting way of contrasting the better and worse manifestations of capitalism.

More thinking that a "we need to unite the goblin clans" fits into standard MMO campaign structure over anything IRL.

Ahh, I see. That sounds pretty awful to me. I'd definitely not be for it.

[Nebron]

If Undermine was a thing, how do you think would they manage the light?

[rainhard]

The azerite ceiling cave zone could work, make it glow yellow in the morning and blueish at night, make it full of vegetation and wildlife that has lived due to the azerite, for another zone they can also add 2d art ceiling similar to Elden Ring but with the cosmic void thingies instead of the star, and lastly make the other zone more like its a fresh cave that has been mined either by goblin gnomes or a titan base or qiraji pathways whatever. there could even be a cave zone with a sealike thing as the crater of azeroth. The zones could also be connected in a circle shape 3d and all that signifying we are in the crater.

[Santandame]

Well for one both Zandalar and Nazjatar were big draws for a South Seas. But even then you still have Kul Tiras and Broken Shore mentioned as a likely part of it. People said South Seas, but what they always meant was "all the various islands between EK and Kalimdor".

And yes, customizable ships were not a thing in BfA, but island hopping was. Island expeditions are exactly the randomly generated islands you are talking about. It was done terribly, but the point still stands.

All you ahve left are the auxillary islands that were mentioned as filler to the big important locations. Plunder Isle maybe, but Tel'Abim? That island is only known for a brief bit of funny text regarding possibly sentient bananas. If you count that as a major draw then you might as well just make stuff up entirely. The only thing Tel'abim has is the recognizable name.

Kul Tiras and the Broken Isles aren’t the South Seas though. They’re literally in the north. The premise of the South Seas was one that would be tropical island based. Kul Tiras and the Broken Isles were never described as such.

No, they are not the randomly generated islands I am talking about; not at all. One would have been sailing around on our boats as different islands pop up to explore with various different bits of content attached. The other was essentially a race against the clock kill and loot style game. They are both completely different. You cannot compare the two. It was more along the lines of exploration - not what we got in the slightest. Think Sea of Thieves.

Regardless of whether you deem those locations as important, they’re still known and established locations in lore that we figured we would explore one day. Just like literally every other location mentioned within the game or the lore.

Nazjatar yes. But no one had faction war, mecha gnomes, witches, emerald dream corruption etc down for their South Seas concepts.

The South Seas concept was always travelling tropical islands on our own boats. The sense of a whimsical, fun adventure which would also feature Azshara and the Naga. BfA sans Azshara and Nazjatar certainly was not that.

Once again, the notion that BfA was the South Seas expansion is total and complete utter bollocks.

[Baraden]

Really wish people would stop spreading this nonsense.

Kul Tiras
Zandalar
ISLAND expeditions
Heavy focus on pirates and ships
Look on Azeroth's map where Zandalar is

It was the South Seas expansion, cope

[Santandame]

Kul Tiras
Zandalar
ISLAND expeditions
Heavy focus on pirates and ships
Look on Azeroth's map where Zandalar is

It was the South Seas expansion, cope

-Kul Tiras isn’t the South Seas. It’s literally in the north of the Eastern Kingdoms.
-The only real focus on ships was in the Kul Tiras campaign and the opening for Battle of Dazar’alor.
-One dungeon and two chapters of one zones campaign dedicated to pirates - heavy focus?
-I’ve made my point regarding island expeditions clear.
-Zandalar is the only location there in the South Seas.

Was Pandaria the South Seas expansion prior to BfA? That had literal islands in the South Sea that we visited. Pandaria is based in the South Seas. It had a fair few boats too.

Hey, at least you got one thing right mate.

[huth]

Kul Tiras
Zandalar
ISLAND expeditions
Heavy focus on pirates and ships
Look on Azeroth's map where Zandalar is

It was the South Seas expansion, cope

Kul Tiras is not south seas. Most of the islands weren't, either. There was no heavy focus on pirates or ships. And Zandalar only counts once.

So you have all of one point in favour, that's not very impressive.

[KurtMash]

The azerite ceiling cave zone could work, make it glow yellow in the morning and blueish at night, make it full of vegetation and wildlife that has lived due to the azerite, for another zone they can also add 2d art ceiling similar to Elden Ring but with the cosmic void thingies instead of the star, and lastly make the other zone more like its a fresh cave that has been mined either by goblin gnomes or a titan base or qiraji pathways whatever. there could even be a cave zone with a sealike thing as the crater of azeroth. The zones could also be connected in a circle shape 3d and all that signifying we are in the crater.

...and of course there would be a zone with a massive void tear in the ceiling, so it would look like we're in space.

[Catastrophy349]

Pretty big F IMO. New quests in Emerald Dream available on PTR...

[Worldshaper]

I think the Harbinger wants to resurrect a 5th Old God, or the 'Ancient One'. In fact, that might be what the 'awakening' is about, not the world-soul.

Rise, rise! Our Queen calls to us from beyond the Umbral Veil. She has transcended the Circle of Stars and basks in her eternal grandeur!

The time we have long awaited is nigh.

This is obvious. Azshara is now a powerful agent of the Void, and she's once again making moves.

Even now, the Harbinger gathers the children of the first flesh to reclaim what was lost. They must remember their vows and serve those to whom they owe fealty.

While they toil in the deep places, we will journey to the shores of dragon lands, to the blessed isle where the Worldbreaker first embraced the whispers.

The Harbinger, or the Void, has lost something. Now they're making somebody dig it up, deep below the earth. I'm guessing the "children" are either the earthen at Khaz Algar, or simply the Aqir and the N'raqi. All of these probaby became alive because of the Old Gods. Also guessing it is probably taking place underneath Kalimdor, both because these earthen have been described as being far away from where the Curse of Flesh happened thousands of years later, and because C'thun has a large presence in the area around the Wound.

I believe she's lost the body of the 5th Old God (whether it is herself or a separate entity), or the 'Ancient One', a creature introduced in Hearthstone. It was created by the Old Gods to serve as a general on the field of battle, wreaking havoc across Azeroth. It can be resurrected if you bring its blood back together.

There's also the tiniest chance that the fabled Earth Mother might be the 5th Old God. The 5th Old God is depicted surrounded by leaves in Chronicles, sort of suggesting it is related to life somehow. The Earth Mother created the Tauren, which could be another example of "Children of the First Flesh" if she was an Old God. She notably blinded herself to create the Sun and Moon, which makes this Il'gynoth quote rather interesting: "The blind queen wields a scepter of bone. From the deep, she calls forth doom."

As one storm recedes, another rises. The torches have been lit. The secrets he buried will strike as a dagger into the hearts of his kin!

This speaks about Deathwing's defeat, and passing the title of Harbinger to (presumably) Xal'atath.

The torches, as always, can be interpreted in a number of ways. The Black Blade of the Empire was once described as a torch which would light their (the Old Gods) path. But we also have the Oathstones which have recently been rekindled. I believe this happened just after we had arrived on the Dragon Isles, but before this book was written and left by the Naga on the Forbidden Reach. So the past tense makes sense.

Il'gynoth once said: "Five lanterns now darkened. The flames they seek will light the Masters' way."

Then it speaks of Zarelek Cavern and the Shadowflame (etc) that Neltharion had hidden away down there.

The Harbinger speaks of a primal power that seeks the end of Order. Such rage can be bent to serve our ends.

The Harbinger wanted wanted to recruit Iridikron, and clearly had done so by the time of patch 10.1.5.

A hunger lost to the ages will be reclaimed.

Everyone agrees this is about Galakron's essence being harvested by Iridikron and given to the Harbinger.

A dark heart left broken awaits the taking.

This one is still up for debate. It could be Amirdrassil's heart, but I don't think that's "dark". It could refer to some person who's bitter and harbours resentment in secret. The "broken" part could be figurative (Alex feeling betrayed by Tyr) or literal (Azeroth, the 5th Old God, or the 'Ancient One' having been killed).

One of the old whispers did say "her heart is a crater, and we have filled it," which could refer to a corrupted world-soul.

When these things come to pass, the Harbinger will fulfill the final prophecy and complete the awakening.

Only then shall our Queen return to reign over sea and sky and earth. We must make ready.

Rise, rise! Soon all that was hidden will be revealed.

This is interesting. First, it establishes that all of the above must happen before what's in this paragraph may come to pass. A lot of that happened recently in Dragonflight, so we're moving at a quick pace!

The Harbinger wants to complete the 'awakening'. The conventional reading of this is that she wants to awaken Azeroth's world-soul, perhaps as a sort of dark and twisted version of itself.

But what if it isn't the world-soul she wants to awaken? What if it's one of the beings I've written about in this post, such as a 5th Old God or the 'Ancient One'?

Then it goes on to say that once the awakening is done, Queen Azshara will return to rule over Azeroth.

Interestingly, it ends with "all that was hidden shall be revealed". Hidden, as in not visible, or deep below the earth?

In summary

No one yet knows what this all means, and there's plenty of room for unexpected twists and turns. We all know Blizzard likes to defy expectation by offering the expected, but with a twist. Maybe the Harbinger wants to empower Azeroth against Queen Azshara. Or maybe Queen Azshara wants to come to Azeroth in order to fight the Harbinger. Seems unlikely, but perhaps. Personally, I kind of like the theme of "all eyes shall be opened" that was established by N'Zoth back in BfA. It would be surreal if, for example, the Old Gods is just an illusion created by the Titans aeons ago, making us think that the original "gods" of Azeroth are these horrible monsters that need to be contained or destroyed.

Either way, I'm very convinced at this point that we're in for an adventure below the earth, which will involve the Void, the Harbinger (likely Xal'atath), Iridikron, Thrall, the world-soul, and some unexpected godlike figures.

[Santandame]

Well for one both Zandalar and Nazjatar were big draws for a South Seas. But even then you still have Kul Tiras and Broken Shore mentioned as a likely part of it. People said South Seas, but what they always meant was "all the various islands between EK and Kalimdor".

And yes, customizable ships were not a thing in BfA, but island hopping was. Island expeditions are exactly the randomly generated islands you are talking about. It was done terribly, but the point still stands.

All you ahve left are the auxillary islands that were mentioned as filler to the big important locations. Plunder Isle maybe, but Tel'Abim? That island is only known for a brief bit of funny text regarding possibly sentient bananas. If you count that as a major draw then you might as well just make stuff up entirely. The only thing Tel'abim has is the recognizable name.

Also, Tel’Abim has recently been referenced in Dragonflight as the location where Nightsquall stores his riches; with anyone going there to steal it meeting a deadly end. So there’s clear intent there to seed it for future content in some form.

[Sondrelk]

Pretty big F IMO. New quests in Emerald Dream available on PTR...

Alright? I'll bite.

[Teriz]

Sure, but they also concieved the Dragon Isles as a dragon shaped peninsula north of Tirisfal, and look what we have now.

Yes, they made it BIGGER than what it was originally. The same applies for Broken Isles, Kul Ti'ras, and Zalandar. Why would they suddenly decide to REDUCE the size of a landmass? Just because its Goblin-controlled?

Also you don't need to have Undermine be technically controlled by the Bilgewater Goblins, just have it be their main hub. Wouldnt be the first time a faction city isnt fully controlled by the faction.

That doesn't follow the lore of the location though. The Trade Coalition is not a part of the horde, and is arguably more powerful than the Horde (and the alliance) so it would be bizarre to have their landmass be a faction hub for just the horde. Undermine is a cosmopolitan city with denizens from all over Azeroth. It wouldn't be closed off from the alliance races, because that would be bad for business.

It would make far more sense from a lore perspective to have both the Alliance and the Horde have hubs on the continent like every other continent in WoW.

[Sondrelk]

Yes, they made it BIGGER than what it was originally. The same applies for Broken Isles, Kul Ti'ras, and Zalandar. Why would they suddenly decide to REDUCE the size of a landmass? Just because its Goblin-controlled?



That doesn't follow the lore of the location though. The Trade Coalition is not a part of the horde, and is arguably more powerful than the Horde (and the alliance) so it would be bizarre to have their landmass be a faction hub for just the horde. Undermine is a cosmopolitan city with denizens from all over Azeroth. It wouldn't be closed off from the alliance races, because that would be bad for business.

It would make far more sense from a lore perspective to have both the Alliance and the Horde have hubs on the continent like every other continent in WoW.

Because lots of stuff gets changed in production. Also, we know where Undermine is, it's under Kezan, which is an island we can already see on the map. For your theory to hold true then Kezan would have to somehow quintuple in size, if not more. It would also have to move far enough south it would crash into Pandaria.

[Teriz]

Gazlowe "merging with" the Bilgewater may be a hint that the Goblin Cartels are going to unionize anyway, so they would eventually all work out of Undermine.

Nah, Gazlowe wasn't a trade prince, he just owned Rachet and a few other locations. He became a trade prince when Gallywix ran away. His cartel is nowhere near powerful enough to sway the other trade princes to push the trade coalition to join the horde exclusively.

[Cheezits]

Pretty big F IMO. New quests in Emerald Dream available on PTR...

By accident?

[Revamp Man]

Yeah, hopefully, he is just pranking again.

With that said, I'm not saying that a Revamp is the most likely, just that fully underground expansion feels like suicide, and even another Shadowlands based in another cosmic plane would be more well received.

A full revamp will never never happen
Underground expansion is definitely possible. I get titan facilities are always underground idk why but it's a thing even if boring

We know iridikron wants to draw the Titans to Azeroth and there arev2 possible ways we know of
1. A beacon like the disc's
2. Azeroth waking up

[Teriz]

Because lots of stuff gets changed in production. Also, we know where Undermine is, it's under Kezan, which is an island we can already see on the map. For your theory to hold true then Kezan would have to somehow quintuple in size, if not more. It would also have to move far enough south it would crash into Pandaria.

Uh no. Undermine is underneath Kezan, which means it can be several magnitudes larger than the mass above it. Here's an example using a glacier under a similar principle;